NickKount
Active member
Thanks!
Beginner wildlife photography kit
- Thread starter NickKount
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fcotterill
Well-known member
My 0.02c is consider a Used 200-500 f5.6E on a Used D500 or a Used D850, or if you can afford a Used 500 PF
photographylife.com
A reconditioned Nikon Zf is arguably the most cost effective way to afford the high-end Mirrorless Autofocus of the Z9 AF engine. This will pair very well with F-mount AFS lenses. Judging by the internet feedback, the Zf is becoming a popular solution for wildlife photography, besides the other photography genres.
The big step forward is deciding on the Lens System. Which of the options has the best potential: quality, including ergonomics, TC performance, and obviously price.
Whatever you select in Nikon, make sure the camera is a latest generation DSLR or an affordable Mirrorless. Then you can add lenses, as and when feasible - to build a versatile system. Either way, the Used market has never been so buyer-friendly, for F-mount fit in particular.
bcgforums.com
Nikon D500 & 200-500mm f/5.6: The Ultimate Budget Wildlife Combo
photographylife.com
A reconditioned Nikon Zf is arguably the most cost effective way to afford the high-end Mirrorless Autofocus of the Z9 AF engine. This will pair very well with F-mount AFS lenses. Judging by the internet feedback, the Zf is becoming a popular solution for wildlife photography, besides the other photography genres.
The big step forward is deciding on the Lens System. Which of the options has the best potential: quality, including ergonomics, TC performance, and obviously price.
Whatever you select in Nikon, make sure the camera is a latest generation DSLR or an affordable Mirrorless. Then you can add lenses, as and when feasible - to build a versatile system. Either way, the Used market has never been so buyer-friendly, for F-mount fit in particular.
Zf for wildlife - AF and continuous shooting performance?
Hi, If you have used the Nikon Zf for wildlife photography, could you please comment on AF and continuous shooting performance? For example, - How well does the AF track animals? - Is there noticeable EVF lag during max fps shooting? - Is there a drop in EVF resolution when shooting? - How...
bcgforums.com
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My view is a Canon R7 and a Canon 100-400mm RF.
Reason. You are in mirrorless with excellent subject ID.
Alternative, if you can find used, OM Systems OM-1 mark 1 and OM Systems 100-400 lens. Reason: Better camera. Better lens, More reach. Also, excellent subject ID.
Both have pre-capture which means that you can get some ultra cool BIF shots. (see attached)
A used OM-1, mk1 can be had for about $1250USD on Fred Miranda and a used OM Systems 100-400 for about $860USd on Fred Miranda. (That was what the last gear sold for). Most sellers pay shipping and ask the buyer to pay the PayPal fees BUT shipping to Greece may entail complications. You will need to create an account on Fred Miranda, pay for a buy-sell subscription and be patient.
The Canon R7 is $1010USD (last sale) and the Canon 100-400 is $470 (last sale) on Fred Mirand. New, however the R7 is $1500USD and the 100-400 lens $599.
Reason. You are in mirrorless with excellent subject ID.
Alternative, if you can find used, OM Systems OM-1 mark 1 and OM Systems 100-400 lens. Reason: Better camera. Better lens, More reach. Also, excellent subject ID.
Both have pre-capture which means that you can get some ultra cool BIF shots. (see attached)
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
A used OM-1, mk1 can be had for about $1250USD on Fred Miranda and a used OM Systems 100-400 for about $860USd on Fred Miranda. (That was what the last gear sold for). Most sellers pay shipping and ask the buyer to pay the PayPal fees BUT shipping to Greece may entail complications. You will need to create an account on Fred Miranda, pay for a buy-sell subscription and be patient.
The Canon R7 is $1010USD (last sale) and the Canon 100-400 is $470 (last sale) on Fred Mirand. New, however the R7 is $1500USD and the 100-400 lens $599.
StefanSC
Well-known member
That's almost a no-brainer... The Nikon D500 with the Sigma 150-600mm C.
And I am not saying that just because it's been my main camera for about 5 years, but because of a practical reason:
In FF terms, the D500 and Sigma 150-600mm gives you 20Mpx @ 900mm f9.
The Canon R10 gives you 24Mpx @ 640mm f11.
The Canon R8 gives you 24Mpx @ 800mm f11.
The R6 gives you 24Mpx @ 600mm f6.3
The Sony A6700 gives you 24Mpx @ 600mm f9.
Even the Canon R7 with the 100-400mm gives you 32Mpx @ 640mm f11 (and with cropping you'd get something like 20-ish Mpx @900mm f13 I think).
So out them all, the Nikon will give you the most megapixels on subject with the best compromise in aperture. That translates, in the field, to the least amount of cropping and that gives you the best image quality by a decent margin.
While the bird AI in the mirrorless cameras will make it somewhat easier to grab shots of birds (especially in flight), as a beginner you'll be focused more on finding the subjects and getting close to them, so you'll hit that "not enough pixels on target" limitation more often than the AF limitations.
And I wouldn't worry that much about the BiF shots with the D500 either as it's not a slouch...
Regarding mpb.com : I live in nearby(to Greece) Romania and I've ordered a few items from them (lenses and harder to find TCs). Each time the item was fully functional and came as described on their site.
The delivery was a bit slow (they deliver from Germany) but otherwise, I had no issues with them. And if any issues should arise, I think the EU has comprehensive consumer protection laws...
David Berry
🇦🇺 Australia 🦘
Yes!
NickKount
Active member
Thank you all for your feeback 
Wrogu
Active member
Consider 200-600 from sony and the best used camera you can afford a7III, a7rIII.
However a used olympus OM-1 and 100-400 is also a decent idea. If you can have a tiny bit larger budget consider used 300f4.
I would not buy into slow glass and low end bodies. By low end I mean lack of proper controls, so user experience would not suffer. Most full frame bodies can be set well to suit wildlife photographers needs. So does Om1. But in OM world it has to be the OM1 wth stacked sensor.
Being an European - consider other countries if you have family there - Germany, UK. I have bought numerous items from our open EU market and as UK was a popular migration site - I have friends there so buying there without import duties is not a big issue if I can wait a bit. Also buying new is a feat as well - I have seen cheaper new 200-600 and a7III than used ones if bought at right place and time (for instance photo festivals - that set up bought new would be within your budget during our last year festival season).
However a used olympus OM-1 and 100-400 is also a decent idea. If you can have a tiny bit larger budget consider used 300f4.
I would not buy into slow glass and low end bodies. By low end I mean lack of proper controls, so user experience would not suffer. Most full frame bodies can be set well to suit wildlife photographers needs. So does Om1. But in OM world it has to be the OM1 wth stacked sensor.
Being an European - consider other countries if you have family there - Germany, UK. I have bought numerous items from our open EU market and as UK was a popular migration site - I have friends there so buying there without import duties is not a big issue if I can wait a bit. Also buying new is a feat as well - I have seen cheaper new 200-600 and a7III than used ones if bought at right place and time (for instance photo festivals - that set up bought new would be within your budget during our last year festival season).
NickKount
Active member
Thanks! What kind of festivals?
Bisonbison
Member
Hi Nick,Hello! My name is Nick and I am from Greece. I love wildlife photography and I have been following Steve for many years. I follow other photographers mostly on YouTube. A friend of mine donated me a canon eos 10d and a sigma 28-135 f/3.8 - 5.6 both cam and lens very old and outdated. As time goes by I fell in love with bird photography. I take pictures of local backyard birds like sparrows and starlings. When I looked at my photos I thought that I have to improve my gear cause I was following all the rules that Steve gave in his videos.
My main question is : Which kit (camera, lens) do you recommend for amatures whith theoretical knowledge but with minimal experience in the field. My budget is arround 2000 euros +-200. I have in mind the canon r10 or r8 but Ι don't know which lenses to combine them with. There is also the nikon 200-500 but there isnt a camera that compares to the aforementioned. Also there is the canon rf600mm and 800mm f11 but I think they are pretty slow.
What is more, whats your thoughts about to have a friend of mine bring me a camera or lens from America because the prises are lower and if you do the conversion from dollars to euros its even lower BUT I dont know anything about taxes.
Thanks for your time and I look forward to your answers
I think you will be best served by a mirrorless camera with good autofocus and a telephoto zoom lens for flexibility. I also feel a crop sensor camera would be a better choice. While many DSLRs may be available for a lower price now, if a more recent mirrorless camera with bird AF is available within your budget, why not make use of those newer technological aids? It will make your success rate and enjoyment of your hobby greater in my opinion.
Finally make sure you include the cost of SD cards, some post processing software and possibly a spare battery in your budget.
Considering all this, my recommendation is the Canon R10 and RF100-400mm lens. I found some links from a camera store in Athens 1. I don’t know how good this particular store is, I only used this link as a
Reference, 2. I don’t know if these prices include VAT/Sales tax. If possible go to a local store in person and check it out.
Canon EOS R10 Body
Emphasizing portability without sacrificing on capability, the Canon EOS R10 is a sleek mirrorless camera with a hybrid ethos. Adept in both photo and video worlds, the R10 brings an APS-C sensor to the R system, along with high-speed shooting, intelligent AF, and impressive 4K video recording...
www.adophoto.gr
Canon RF 100-400mm f/5.6-8 IS USM Lens
A versatile telephoto-zoom with a portable form factor, the Canon RF 100-400mm f/5.6-8 IS USM is a nimble lens perfect for wildlife, sports, and travel shooting. With extended range, this zoom packs super-telephoto reach into a relatively sleek, lightweight design along with support for...
www.adophoto.gr
Final point to consider. If you purchase in Europe, you will be covered by the European Warranty system for 24 months I think, but look it up. I hope you never need to use warranty repair, but this can be beneficial in the event you need it.
Good luck!
NickKount
Active member
Thanks!Hi Nick,
I think you will be best served by a mirrorless camera with good autofocus and a telephoto zoom lens for flexibility. I also feel a crop sensor camera would be a better choice. While many DSLRs may be available for a lower price now, if a more recent mirrorless camera with bird AF is available within your budget, why not make use of those newer technological aids? It will make your success rate and enjoyment of your hobby greater in my opinion.
Finally make sure you include the cost of SD cards, some post processing software and possibly a spare battery in your budget.
Considering all this, my recommendation is the Canon R10 and RF100-400mm lens. I found some links from a camera store in Athens 1. I don’t know how good this particular store is, I only used this link as a
Reference, 2. I don’t know if these prices include VAT/Sales tax. If possible go to a local store in person and check it out.
Canon EOS R10 Body
Emphasizing portability without sacrificing on capability, the Canon EOS R10 is a sleek mirrorless camera with a hybrid ethos. Adept in both photo and video worlds, the R10 brings an APS-C sensor to the R system, along with high-speed shooting, intelligent AF, and impressive 4K video recording...Canon RF 100-400mm f/5.6-8 IS USM Lens
A versatile telephoto-zoom with a portable form factor, the Canon RF 100-400mm f/5.6-8 IS USM is a nimble lens perfect for wildlife, sports, and travel shooting. With extended range, this zoom packs super-telephoto reach into a relatively sleek, lightweight design along with support for...
Final point to consider. If you purchase in Europe, you will be covered by the European Warranty system for 24 months I think, but look it up. I hope you never need to use warranty repair, but this can be beneficial in the event you need it.
Good luck!
Barney
New member
If you are considering used, I would suggest MPB or KEH. Much better prices on used. MPB will list everything with camera or lens and show images of both. There may be a MPB in England, not sure though. Their rating is-Excellent is equivalent to what B&H would list as like new. I have bought 2 lenses that were listed as Like New and they came sealed in box’s with warranty cards from manufacturer. Second the D500 is slow to focus with the 200-500 lens (I have both). Sigma makes some great lenses, have the 120-300 2.8 sport and the 105 f1.4 Art and they are great lenses. You can email both MPB and KEH and talk online live to get some info about what it would cost you for gear. I buy all my used gear from these 2 companies. I primarily do sports photography so fast lenses are a necessity, also works great for wildlife photography.Hello! My name is Nick and I am from Greece. I love wildlife photography and I have been following Steve for many years. I follow other photographers mostly on YouTube. A friend of mine donated me a canon eos 10d and a sigma 28-135 f/3.8 - 5.6 both cam and lens very old and outdated. As time goes by I fell in love with bird photography. I take pictures of local backyard birds like sparrows and starlings. When I looked at my photos I thought that I have to improve my gear cause I was following all the rules that Steve gave in his videos.
My main question is : Which kit (camera, lens) do you recommend for amatures whith theoretical knowledge but with minimal experience in the field. My budget is arround 2000 euros +-200. I have in mind the canon r10 or r8 but Ι don't know which lenses to combine them with. There is also the nikon 200-500 but there isnt a camera that compares to the aforementioned. Also there is the canon rf600mm and 800mm f11 but I think they are pretty slow.
What is more, whats your thoughts about to have a friend of mine bring me a camera or lens from America because the prises are lower and if you do the conversion from dollars to euros its even lower BUT I dont know anything about taxes.
Thanks for your time and I look forward to your answers
Wrogu
Active member
Like foto forma in Warsaw or Swiatlosila in Gdańsk, photoshows etc.
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Looks like an OM-1 mk1 and a 100-400 come in at $2500 which is barely in the 2000 euro budget
NickKount
Active member
Thank you all
NickKount
Active member
Hello! I have read all of your replies and I thank you for that. I have found a canon ef-400mm f5.6 uused for 900 euros (in Greece). Also a canon eos r6 used for 1200 euros. Last but not least, There is an option for a sigma ef-150-600 new for 1000 euros and a canon r10 for the same price.
And here is my question : Which camera and lens combination should I get? The r6 with the sigma 150-600 or the r10 with the 400 f5.6?
Note that the photography subject that I am most focused on is bird photography.
Thank in advance!!!
And here is my question : Which camera and lens combination should I get? The r6 with the sigma 150-600 or the r10 with the 400 f5.6?
Note that the photography subject that I am most focused on is bird photography.
Thank in advance!!!
For Birds I would mostly say the R6+Sigma combo. But I don't know Canon well and how their cameras behave with third party lenses, so I will let other more experienced users answer.
NickKount
Active member
Thanks Ioanni
PhotoLover
Well-known member
The question I have about this recommendation, and a couple of others, is what's the next lens after the 100-400? I have a 100-400 on my crop sensor Nikon, and it's a decent general purpose lens, but I often want more reach, with a 500 pf and sometimes the 500 pf + 1.4 converter being my choices. I'm not pushing the prime (though I love the lightweight 500 pf) but I find 400 isn't enough reach for many situations.Hi Nick,
I think you will be best served by a mirrorless camera with good autofocus and a telephoto zoom lens for flexibility. I also feel a crop sensor camera would be a better choice. While many DSLRs may be available for a lower price now, if a more recent mirrorless camera with bird AF is available within your budget, why not make use of those newer technological aids? It will make your success rate and enjoyment of your hobby greater in my opinion.
Finally make sure you include the cost of SD cards, some post processing software and possibly a spare battery in your budget.
Considering all this, my recommendation is the Canon R10 and RF100-400mm lens. I found some links from a camera store in Athens 1. I don’t know how good this particular store is, I only used this link as a
Reference, 2. I don’t know if these prices include VAT/Sales tax. If possible go to a local store in person and check it out.
Canon EOS R10 Body
Emphasizing portability without sacrificing on capability, the Canon EOS R10 is a sleek mirrorless camera with a hybrid ethos. Adept in both photo and video worlds, the R10 brings an APS-C sensor to the R system, along with high-speed shooting, intelligent AF, and impressive 4K video recording...Canon RF 100-400mm f/5.6-8 IS USM Lens
A versatile telephoto-zoom with a portable form factor, the Canon RF 100-400mm f/5.6-8 IS USM is a nimble lens perfect for wildlife, sports, and travel shooting. With extended range, this zoom packs super-telephoto reach into a relatively sleek, lightweight design along with support for...
Final point to consider. If you purchase in Europe, you will be covered by the European Warranty system for 24 months I think, but look it up. I hope you never need to use warranty repair, but this can be beneficial in the event you need it.
Good luck!
Budget permitting, I'd go mirrorless, but in the Nikon line, for wildlife, I probably wouldn't trade my D500 (or maybe even the D7500!) for mirrorless except the Z8 or Z9.
Bisonbison
Member
You ask a good question about the potential upgrade path beyond an ‘entry level’ bird photography kit. It’s important to consider the system as a whole. At the same time, it is also important not to get stuck in analysis paralysis in search of the perfect ‘future proof’ system.
One always has the option to trade in any kit while upgrading to a setup that suits one better as they get more experienced. I feel the experience gained with the entry level kit will itself inform the next choice.
That said within the canon RF system, there are four relatively affordable options which extend reach beyond the 100-400mm lens - 600mm f11, 800mm f11, 200-800mm and 100-500mm.
Beyond that the fast, constant aperture zooms and big primes are so expensive and such a huge commitment, that it warrants a different analysis of most suitable system when a photographer is ready and willing to jump up to that level.
Speaking to your current D500, I used to use Nikon and had a z50 and 300mm pf kit for a couple of years. But eventually when the mirrorless equivalent of the D500 didn’t appear and (at the time I made my decision), the 180-600mm lens was not out, I chose the best offering available on the market at that time, which fit within my budget and had the capabilities I was looking for. Hope that helps answer your question.
Bisonbison
Member
Curious to know what kind of small birds you see and in what kind of habitat?
The things I considered when picking my current setup were:
- effective bird AF algorithms
- relatively fast fps
- image stabilization of the camera/lens combo
- minimum rolling shutter
- weight of total kit for handheld use
- reach and flexibility of the combo
As others have mentioned, with mirrorless cameras, I would try and get a lens made by the camera manufacturer for full compatibility of all features.
Of the choices you have listed above the D500 with 150-600mm has the best reach/ flexibility. But I have reservations about giving up the AF and fps advances that a mirror less setup would offer. Along with perks like silent shooting and exposure preview in the viewfinder.
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PhotoLover
Well-known member
I agree with not getting stuck in analysis paralysis, but I also want a clear upgrade path. When I was looking at dSLRs a few years ago, I rejected Fuji mirrorless because the lens selection was not there. I've recently bought a used 70-200 2.8, and along with that I'm planning on keeping my 500 pf when I upgrade to Nikon mirrorless because both those excellent lenses work well on the Z8 and Z9.
I don't know much about the Canon ecosystem, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but a 600 f11 (?) and an 800 f11 would be non-starters for me. No where near enough light for shooting things like BIF under varying conditions. My 5.6 500 pf comes up short sometimes for that.
I bought the D500 used, to replace the D7500 I had bought previously, the latter being an excellent value for the money. The D7500 is still a very useful backup/second camera.
Used 500 pfs are much cheaper than new ones now, so the used market is definitely of interest.
I would wait and find a R7 because I would rather have a 32mb cropped sensor than a 24mb full frame sensor.
On a 32mb cropped sensor you are at 600 effective reach with the 400 @ f/5.6 which would be generally equivalent to a Nikon D-500 f/5.6 because you have more megapixels.
If I would swing it I would get the 150-600 zoom because at 400mm (640 mm effective reach) you will be close to F/f.6, the same as the non zoom.
It is true that in low light you will be unhappy but a FF camera and a 600mm F/4 lens is way out of your budget.
So: R7/Sigma 150-600 NO QUESTION. Pass on R6 or R10. You'll be happy that you did.
Tom
On a 32mb cropped sensor you are at 600 effective reach with the 400 @ f/5.6 which would be generally equivalent to a Nikon D-500 f/5.6 because you have more megapixels.
If I would swing it I would get the 150-600 zoom because at 400mm (640 mm effective reach) you will be close to F/f.6, the same as the non zoom.
It is true that in low light you will be unhappy but a FF camera and a 600mm F/4 lens is way out of your budget.
So: R7/Sigma 150-600 NO QUESTION. Pass on R6 or R10. You'll be happy that you did.
Tom
StefanSC
Well-known member
I've been challenging myself lately to shoot using a D7200, an old 300mm f4 and the 1.4x TC. What I got isn't top level (https://bcgforums.com/threads/european-bee-eaters-2024-edition.35493/) but I think plenty of beginners would be happy with those shots.
And shooting with that set-up has really brought to light how much the fieldcraft and knowledge of where to find subjects, how to approach them and how to edit your files matters in getting a decent image and how little the gear matters.
So if I was a wildlife beginner with 2k euros in my pocket, I'd seriously spend 1k on the set-up above and the rest on workshops, on camo equipment and good outdoors shoes and on beer for local wildlife photographers to get them to show me the best spots to find subjects.
Because at the end of the day, a slip and fall can trash any camera and lens but the know-how you get from in the field experience, nobody can take it away from you.
And shooting with that set-up has really brought to light how much the fieldcraft and knowledge of where to find subjects, how to approach them and how to edit your files matters in getting a decent image and how little the gear matters.
So if I was a wildlife beginner with 2k euros in my pocket, I'd seriously spend 1k on the set-up above and the rest on workshops, on camo equipment and good outdoors shoes and on beer for local wildlife photographers to get them to show me the best spots to find subjects
.Because at the end of the day, a slip and fall can trash any camera and lens but the know-how you get from in the field experience, nobody can take it away from you.
NickKount
Active member
Thank you all
Here is an interesting calculator that gives you the field of view for camera and lens combinations at any shooting distance. You can check out how small that bird will be in the frame to help you decide what you need. For example if it is a tiny bird for a portrait maybe you could assume you want maybe 1.5 foot by 1 foot. For an environmental or habitat shot maybe you want 3 feet by 2 feet or so. For a 400mm lens with a full frame camera 50 feet away your field of view is 4.5 by 3 feet. With a crop camera the same lens and distance the field of view is 2.8 by 1.8 feet. So hopefully you can get closer than 50 feet. At 25 feet the full frame is 2.25 feet by 1.5 feet and the crop camera is .93 by 1.4. Of course you can crop either full frame or crop camera even further, but at some point you can't push it any more. Having more megapixels can help give a little room forn cropping.
With 600mm lens at 50 feet you get 3 by 2 feet with the full frame and with the crop camera 1.87 by 1.25 feet.
With 600mm lens at 50 feet you get 3 by 2 feet with the full frame and with the crop camera 1.87 by 1.25 feet.
Camera Field of View Details and Calculator (FoV)
Calculator of Field of View of camera and lens, both the dimensional size of the Field Of View seen at a specified distance, and also Angle Of View.
www.scantips.com
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