Beginner wildlife photography kit

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NickKount

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Hello! My name is Nick and I am from Greece. I love wildlife photography and I have been following Steve for many years. I follow other photographers mostly on YouTube. A friend of mine donated me a canon eos 10d and a sigma 28-135 f/3.8 - 5.6 both cam and lens very old and outdated. As time goes by I fell in love with bird photography. I take pictures of local backyard birds like sparrows and starlings. When I looked at my photos I thought that I have to improve my gear cause I was following all the rules that Steve gave in his videos.

My main question is : Which kit (camera, lens) do you recommend for amatures whith theoretical knowledge but with minimal experience in the field. My budget is arround 2000 euros +-200. I have in mind the canon r10 or r8 but Ι don't know which lenses to combine them with. There is also the nikon 200-500 but there isnt a camera that compares to the aforementioned. Also there is the canon rf600mm and 800mm f11 but I think they are pretty slow.

What is more, whats your thoughts about to have a friend of mine bring me a camera or lens from America because the prises are lower and if you do the conversion from dollars to euros its even lower BUT I dont know anything about taxes.

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your answers:):)! Also I apologize for my english.
 
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A Nikon D7200 and an AF-S 300mm f4D (and 1.4x TC) can be had for around 1000 euros used (and with warranty if you go for something like mpb.com) and it's a solid choice for wildlife photography on a budget.

The Olympus E-M1 mk 2 has gone down in price on the used market and you can get a Panasonic 200mm f2.8 and the 1.4x TC for it in budget (or the Olynpus 100-400mm).

The Nikon D500 and 200-500mm (or Sigma 150-600mm C) can be had used for under 2000 euros and it's a great option for birding.

You might squeak by on your budget with an Sony A6700 and a Sigma 100-400mm C.

Finally, you could try for a Canon R7 and a Canon 100-400mm RF but the f8 aperture is a bit of a downer...

In order (which I would choose for myself) :

1) Nikon D500 and 200-500mm f5.6 (or Sigma 150-600)

2) Sony A6700 and Sigma 100-400mm C.

3) Olympus E-M1 mk II and Panasonic 200mm f2.8 and 1.4x TC (or Olympus 100-400mm)

4) Nikon D7200 and 300m f4 plus 1.4x TC.

5) Canon R7 and 100-400mm RF.

Somebody can buy the camera/lens from the USA and bring them as their own (leave the boxes in states) and there shouldn't be an issue with import taxes.

But you won't have any warranty in the EU as they are grey market.
 
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You’ll have to pay whatever import taxes are required for anything from the United States. I do agree that used equipment is the route to go. But what I suggest first is to rent/hire a few cameras to see how you get along with them. Just about any camera will work but they each work differently and have their quirks, especially with older equipment.

I’m familiar with Nikon and Fuji and I would probably lean towards a used Nikon D7500 and a Nikon 70-300 E VR (newest version) as a gentle but good way to get started. You can do a lot with it. But there are many other options available.
 
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NickKount said:
Hello! My name is Nick and I am from Greece. I love wildlife photography and I have been following Steve for many years. I follow other photographers mostly on YouTube. A friend of mine donated me a canon eos 10d and a sigma 28-135 f/3.8 - 5.6 both cam and lens very old and outdated. As time goes by I fell in love with bird photography. I take pictures of local backyard birds like sparrows and starlings. When I looked at my photos I thought that I have to improve my gear cause I was following all the rules that Steve gave in his videos.

My main question is : Which kit (camera, lens) do you recommend for amatures whith theoretical knowledge but with minimal experience in the field. My budget is arround 2000 euros +-200. I have in mind the canon r10 or r8 but Ι don't know which lenses to combine them with. There is also the nikon 200-500 but there isnt a camera that compares to the aforementioned. Also there is the canon rf600mm and 800mm f11 but I think they are pretty slow.

What is more, whats your thoughts about to have a friend of mine bring me a camera or lens from America because the prises are lower and if you do the conversion from dollars to euros its even lower BUT I dont know anything about taxes.

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your answers:):)! Also I apologize for my english.
Click to expand...
Hi Nick, In my opinion, having shot a lot in Greece, you at least need 500-600mm to get good shots, especially of small birds. Maybe look at cameras like the Nikon D500 or D7500/D7200 with a 200-500 or 150-600. This will give you good AF and Image quality and plenty of reach. If you want a mirrorless body with Subject recognition and all the bells and whistles that come with it, I would recommend the Canon R7, since Nikon doesn't offer a budget friendly mirrorless body with good wildlife and bird detection at this time. The thing is that if you are gonna get the R7 you will have to exceed your budget by quite a lot because with the R7 I would recommend an RF-mount lens, that are quite expensive. The cheapest you can find is the 100-400 that with the 1.6x crop factor of the R7 brings you to 640mm. The other option is the new 200-800, that I think would be spectacular for Greece since you often have plenty of light available and the F9 aperture should not be a major issue. In addition, you would get an absolutely mind blowing reach of 1280mm!!!. However, I can understand that the R7+200-800 combo may exceed your budget by a lot. Another option could maybe be the R8 with the 200-800 or the 100-400, but in my opinion you would be short with 400mm on a Full frame body. There are also many good used bodies/lenses online (also in Greece) that you may want to give a look at.
I hope this helped!
 
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Nick, here are my suggestions with examples taken from Canon:
  • camera: full-frame mirrorless
    • Canon R8
  • lens: tele zoom
    • Canon RF 100—400 f/5.6—8
  • telephoto extender
    • Canon RF 1.4x (warning: expensive!)
There is a good chance that this combination (excluding 1.4x extender) will fit your budget.

… David
 
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Ioannis Tziamalis said:
Hi Nick, In my opinion, having shot a lot in Greece, you at least need 500-600mm to get good shots, especially of small birds. Maybe look at cameras like the Nikon D500 or D7500/D7200 with a 200-500 or 150-600. This will give you good AF and Image quality and plenty of reach. If you want a mirrorless body with Subject recognition and all the bells and whistles that come with it, I would recommend the Canon R7, since Nikon doesn't offer a budget friendly mirrorless body with good wildlife and bird detection at this time. The thing is that if you are gonna get the R7 you will have to exceed your budget by quite a lot because with the R7 I would recommend an RF-mount lens, that are quite expensive. The cheapest you can find is the 100-400 that with the 1.6x crop factor of the R7 brings you to 640mm. The other option is the new 200-800, that I think would be spectacular for Greece since you often have plenty of light available and the F9 aperture should not be a major issue. In addition, you would get an absolutely mind blowing reach of 1280mm!!!. However, I can understand that the R7+200-800 combo nay exceed your budget by a lot. Another option could maybe be the R8 with the 200-800 or the 100-400, but in my opinion you would be short with 400mm on a Full frame body. There are also many good used bodies/lenses online (also in Greece) that you may want to give a look at.
I hope this helped!
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For wildlife, I think the D7500 is clearly better than the D7200. Steve said that in his review of the D7500. The D7500 has a higher burst rate, better AF and is lighter. It's a pretty clear win for that use case. I like my D7500 a lot. I mostly use the D500 now that I have one, but the D7500 is a very good camera for the money.
 
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Nick Kount said:
How does the modern technology of the R7, R8 compare with the D7500, D500?
Click to expand...
Canon:
  • R— : mirrorless
  • —D : DSLR
Nikon:
  • Z— : mirrorless
  • D— : DSLR
Sony:
  • α— : mirrorless
OM System:
  • OM— : mirrorless

My opinion: DSLR's reign is over; however, there are some outstanding DSLR cameras (Nikon's D850, for example) available at affordable prices on the secondhand market.
 
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If someone buys gear from B&H for you, they will have to pay sales tax here in USA. If they buy it in person they will pay whatever the rate is in New York City. If they live in a different state they will pay whatever the sales tax rate is in their state (unless they live in one of the two or three US states that have no sales tax). So yes, the price will be higher than what is listed (sales tax will add between 6% and 10% to the price depending on the state). If they are buying it for you in Greece, then legally you are required to pay import tax in Greece as well. It is possible you could skip this and no one would ever know, but to me that is stealing. Also (as someone said) it is possible you could not get it serviced in your country.

If you are investing in a new system, it makes sense to get mirrorless because everything is going that way and DSLR is on the way out.
 
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NickKount said:
Hello! My name is Nick and I am from Greece. I love wildlife photography and I have been following Steve for many years. I follow other photographers mostly on YouTube. A friend of mine donated me a canon eos 10d and a sigma 28-135 f/3.8 - 5.6 both cam and lens very old and outdated. As time goes by I fell in love with bird photography. I take pictures of local backyard birds like sparrows and starlings. When I looked at my photos I thought that I have to improve my gear cause I was following all the rules that Steve gave in his videos.

My main question is : Which kit (camera, lens) do you recommend for amatures whith theoretical knowledge but with minimal experience in the field. My budget is arround 2000 euros +-200. I have in mind the canon r10 or r8 but Ι don't know which lenses to combine them with. There is also the nikon 200-500 but there isnt a camera that compares to the aforementioned. Also there is the canon rf600mm and 800mm f11 but I think they are pretty slow.

What is more, whats your thoughts about to have a friend of mine bring me a camera or lens from America because the prises are lower and if you do the conversion from dollars to euros its even lower BUT I dont know anything about taxes.

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your answers:):)! Also I apologize for my english.
Click to expand...
Hi Nick.

If I were you, I would get a Sony RX10. it will bring much more pleasure.

In bird & wild life photography, focal length & focus speed are the two important factors to consider, the RX10 IV has 24-600mm focal range with outstanding continuous shooting speed, it's light, fast & can be carried everywhere.

Oliver

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As a beginner and buying a new setup go with mirrorless if you can. If you have lots of usable light in Greece (never been there) shouldn’t have to worry about the slower lenses.

If you’re sticking with canon, a r10 with a 100-400 f/8 (adding in crop factor 160-640) and a 600 f/11 (960 mm). If you want faster glass you will either have to expand your budget or go with older equipment, there is nothing wrong with going with older equipment also. Depending on your area it can be hard finding used gear locally. I still use canon dslr gear and will be for the next couple years.

Learning your subject’s behaviour, and knowing your gear is far more important than the gear itself. There is a point yes were upgrading is necessary.
 
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NickKount said:
Τhank you all!!! I dont known how the modern technology of the r7, r8 compares to the d7500, d500. The only problem with canon is the lenses. What about canon r8 with rf800 f11?
Click to expand...

The modern technology in the new mirrorless can make your life easier.

Their big selling point for wildlife is the ability to detect and focus on a subject anywhere in the frame.
The older DSLRs don't have that and you'll need to be more hand-on with your focus system.

Now, when subject detection works in the mirrorless camera, it can be a magical and can help you get shots you otherwise couldn't.
When it fails, it can turn into a frustrating mess, especially when using a more entry level body (like the Canon R8/R10) that lacks the direct controls you might need to take over the AF behavior.

On the other hand, with a DSLR (say D500) you won't have such fancy features but I've always found it's AF to be more consistent/reliable in trickier situations.

An example from the field:
If say I have a bird that lands on a branch in front of me with no obstacle and stays there just for a second, I will have a better chance of getting the shot with a mirrorless as it's initial subject acquisition is much easier/faster than a DSLR.

If I am shooting a bird in a bush and there are some obstacles between me and it, I found that the D500 is somewhat more consistent as it get fooled less by the surroundings.

Then there are things like burst rate, where mirrorless cameras usually have a clear advantage BUT entry level mirrorless cameras (like the R8/R10) usually have slow sensor readouts meaning you can get all sorts of weird and wonderful artefacts when you have stuff moving fast in the frame.

There is the issue of the buffer size and clearing time, where something like a D500 that uses XQD/CFE cards is much better than a camera using SD cards.

And then there is the viewfinder... a DSLR has a nicer viewfinder than an entry level mirrorless, especially if you want to keep a bird in flight framed properly.

Regarding the R8 and RF800 f11... it's not a bad combo it's just that f11 lens is limiting you to situations with lots of light only. A D500 with a 200-500mm f.56 will get you better image quality, probably better AF and it has the flexibility of a zoom... the only reason I would choose the Canon kit over the Nikon DSLR is if I couldn't carry the Nikon kit as it is 3 kgs :).
 
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StefanSC said:
The modern technology in the new mirrorless can make your life easier.

Their big selling point for wildlife is the ability to detect and focus on a subject anywhere in the frame.
The older DSLRs don't have that and you'll need to be more hand-on with your focus system.

Now, when subject detection works in the mirrorless camera, it can be a magical and can help you get shots you otherwise couldn't.
When it fails, it can turn into a frustrating mess, especially when using a more entry level body (like the Canon R8/R10) that lacks the direct controls you might need to take over the AF behavior.

On the other hand, with a DSLR (say D500) you won't have such fancy features but I've always found it's AF to be more consistent/reliable in trickier situations.

An example from the field:
If say I have a bird that lands on a branch in front of me with no obstacle and stays there just for a second, I will have a better chance of getting the shot with a mirrorless as it's initial subject acquisition is much easier/faster than a DSLR.

If I am shooting a bird in a bush and there are some obstacles between me and it, I found that the D500 is somewhat more consistent as it get fooled less by the surroundings.

Then there are things like burst rate, where mirrorless cameras usually have a clear advantage BUT entry level mirrorless cameras (like the R8/R10) usually have slow sensor readouts meaning you can get all sorts of weird and wonderful artefacts when you have stuff moving fast in the frame.

There is the issue of the buffer size and clearing time, where something like a D500 that uses XQD/CFE cards is much better than a camera using SD cards.

And then there is the viewfinder... a DSLR has a nicer viewfinder than an entry level mirrorless, especially if you want to keep a bird in flight framed properly.

Regarding the R8 and RF800 f11... it's not a bad combo it's just that f11 lens is limiting you to situations with lots of light only. A D500 with a 200-500mm f.56 will get you better image quality, probably better AF and it has the flexibility of a zoom... the only reason I would choose the Canon kit over the Nikon DSLR is if I couldn't carry the Nikon kit as it is 3 kgs :).
Click to expand...
Thank you very much! I definetly agree with you but in my local market finding a Nikon d500 is very rare and even rarer is finding the 200-500. I could also buy something from MPB but I am not sure about their reliability. Buying something used from america(KEH) is a no go for me.
 
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NickKount said:
Thank you very much! I definetly agree with you but in my local market finding a Nikon d500 is very rare and even rarer is finding the 200-500. I could also buy something from MPB but I am not sure about their reliability. Buying something used from america(KEH) is a no go for me.
Click to expand...

Finding good used gear is not very difficult in greece, you just have to know where to look. Try these facebook groups :

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

You can also look in general on facebook marketplace or other webistes, but I would advise to always see the gear before buying it.
 
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Ioannis Tziamalis said:
Finding good used gear is not very difficult in greece, you just have to know where to look. Try these facebook groups :

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

You can also look in general on facebook marketplace or other webistes, but I would advise to always see the gear before buying it.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot!
I am very happhy that I found a Greek in the forum!!!
 
I think I would definitely jump into mirrorless so you can start building a modern lens collection. One plus Canon has is a lot of lower cost cameras with the same advanced autofocus as the expensive ones, just less megapixels and fewer bells and whistles. This page reviews all the R cameras and lenses. Also with Canon the refurbished program offers the same 1 year warranty as buying new. Plus right now they are discounting some new cameras on a sale. The r7 for example with the 100-400 would get you started. The crop body giving some added reach.

www.the-digital-picture.com

The-Digital-Picture.com features Mirrorless and DSLR Camera and Lens Reviews and Recommendations

Read clear, detailed camera and lens reviews and recommendations. Get the latest Canon and Sony news and learn from our photography tips. For over 20 years, The-Digital-Picture.com is all about you and making your images amazing!
www.the-digital-picture.com www.the-digital-picture.com


 
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bleirer said:
I think I would definitely jump into mirrorless so you can start building a modern lens collection. One plus Canon has is a lot of lower cost cameras with the same advanced autofocus as the expensive ones, just less megapixels and fewer bells and whistles. This page reviews all the R cameras and lenses. Also with Canon the refurbished program offers the same 1 year warranty as buying new. Plus right now they are discounting some new cameras on a sale. The r7 for example with the 100-400 would get you started. The crop body giving some added reach.

www.the-digital-picture.com

The-Digital-Picture.com features Mirrorless and DSLR Camera and Lens Reviews and Recommendations

Read clear, detailed camera and lens reviews and recommendations. Get the latest Canon and Sony news and learn from our photography tips. For over 20 years, The-Digital-Picture.com is all about you and making your images amazing!
www.the-digital-picture.com www.the-digital-picture.com


Click to expand...
The rf100-400 I think its a great lens for mammals. Also it has the f8 which is a little frustrating. What do you think about the sigma/tamron 150-600?
 
NickKount said:
The rf100-400 I think its a great lens for mammals. Also it has the f8 which is a little frustrating. What do you think about the sigma/tamron 150-600?
Click to expand...

I don't know, I've always stuck with Canon brand lenses. The f8 is not an issue with autofocus with mirrorless, the cameras handle it no problem, but dof is another issue. The better mid-priced lenses would be the rf 100-500 and the 200-800, but they are not much better aperture wise. I'm assuming outside of your budget, but the 100-500 refurbished is in the $2200 range and a new 200-800 around $1900.
 
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bleirer said:
I don't know, I've always stuck with Canon brand lenses. The f8 is not an issue with autofocus with mirrorless, the cameras handle it no problem, but dof is another issue. The better mid-priced lenses would be the rf 100-500 and the 200-800, but they are not much better aperture wise. I'm assuming outside of your budget, but the 100-500 refurbished is in the $2200 range and a new 200-800 around $1900.
Click to expand...
Between the nikon d500 with sigma 150-600, the canon r10 with 100-400, the canon r8 with rf800 f11, the r6 (used) with the sigma 150-600 and the sony a6700 with sigma 100-400 what would you choose for small bird photography?
 
I know it wasn't one of your options but for small birds you might want a crop body and enough megapixels to crop a little too. I'd say given your budget the R7 is a winner, refurbished around $1100 with the 100-400 at around $600.
 
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