I don’t agree. The OM-1 is selling well.
Best wildlife mirrorless camera kit for around $3,000?
- Thread starter Bill G.
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StefanSC
Well-known member
From a lens point of view, mFT is much more versatile than any APS-C system out there, including Fuji...
Bill…almost an impossible question as the answer depends on a lot of factors. Personally…I would hesitate recommendations of MFT as the smaller sensor sites sort of inhibit growth due to physics limitations…although if one understands the limitations and they won’t affect what one wants to do they’re fine…but if he’s a new wildlife shooter the physics limitations could provide some issues down the road. As to APSC vs full frame…a lot of the attraction of crop was the smaller and lighter bodies and while crop MILC are still lighter than FF…the FF MILC are essentially the same size and weight of the crop DSLRs. After that selection…it comes down to brand and hand feel and I like this menu system better but really either Nikon or Sony are just fine and Canon IMO is behind but I don’t really follow what they do as a Nikon guy. For a singular wildlife kit…the new Z 180-600 is by all accounts a great wildlife lens but its short end may be limiting in some cases for close animals, landscapes, etc…pairing it with the 24-120 gives excellent reach range…and adding it to a used Z6/7/6II/7II body would keep it under $4K I believe…and have growth potential into a Z8 or updated 6/7 body later on…but i& he’s interested in BIF the frame rate and AF performance of those bodies is a bit lacking compared to the 8/9…they work but just not as well…I’ve done BIF with my Z7II but the keeper rate is lower than my 8/9, b7t they’re not in the budget he’s got at this time. Steve’s Sony combo is also a good choice if one likes the Sony feel and menus, but most of the I don’t like it comments on brands are more I’m used to the way xx does it rather than a real drawback.
What's "selling well?" Last report I saw, they're at about 2% of camera shipments. The big 5 are now 95% of shipments.
Just out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to go on a thread and criticize a camera system you don’t like?
BlackRockArt
Well-known member
Hi Bill.
Back in the film and DSLR days, Canon was a highly recommended brand. When it comes to mirrorless, Canon RF is the least recommended system.
There are multiple reasons which have been discussed widely, I was happy when Canon moved full steam to the mirrorless realm, alas, the cripple hammer is such a deeply ingrained appendage.
Do consider renting a few camera & lens setups BEFORE spending your hard-earned dough, then make a decision.
Welcome to the world of wonderful wildlife photography.
Oliver
OP asked for a recommendation, someone said MFT, I said, "nah, the format is dying." Conversation ensued with points and counterpoints, some fact-based, others misinformed. Especially when a non-fact is directed at my comment, I ask for clarification.
I'm wondering where the information on Canon being least recommended comes from. It surprises me because I saw this recently.
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-c...l-interchangeable-lens-digital-camera-market/
Canon owns the pro market, has for many years since the intro of the revolutionary 5D. But not prevalent on this forum, so naturally you'll see that bias.
Woody Meristem
Well-known member
As a years-long MFT user I'm always amazed at the self-proclaimed "experts" who disparage the format but haven't used it extensively -- may not have even picked up a piece of MFT gear. The lighter weight, lower cost and wide, wide range of available lenses are all advantages. For a rank beginner on a limited budget an Olympus E-M1 iii and a 100-400mm lens (both used of course) would be a great combo that could be sold with minimal financial penalty; that combo in excellent condition should be available for less than $3,000. Are there better cameras and lenses available -- certainly, but not for that low cost for someone who may find that wildlife photography isn't what they thought it would be.
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The other camera worth considering is the Canon R8. Full frame 24 megapixels with a lot of features of the more expensive bodies at only $1500 new. Though if a crop body is wanted the R7 will be hard to beat $1400 new or $1200 refurbished.
Since Olympus/OM System has come up…
The bird sanctuary I go to has photographers that tend to favour Nikon, but also has dedicated groups of Sony and Canon owners. When I was there two weekends ago I saw two photographers using Olympus/OM System cameras. The system seems to be satisfying a niche (compact system, good for birding) that Nikon really isn’t (and Sony and Canon sort of are).
FWIW, I have been using one-inch-sensor Nikon 1 bodies with Nikon 70-300mm or Sigma 100-400mm lenses for several years. They make good combos for situations where I could use tighter compositions of still or slow-moving birds. An OM-1 (or later-model E-M1) with 100-400mm lens would be able to do that, and shoot action. A photographer named Thomas Stirr was a Nikon 1 user for several years, then moved on to Olympus when the Nikon 1 system was discontinued by Nikon. He gets amazing bird photos with an E-M1X and 100-400mm lens combo. Check out his Small-Format Photography website to see his work. I like it.
The bird sanctuary I go to has photographers that tend to favour Nikon, but also has dedicated groups of Sony and Canon owners. When I was there two weekends ago I saw two photographers using Olympus/OM System cameras. The system seems to be satisfying a niche (compact system, good for birding) that Nikon really isn’t (and Sony and Canon sort of are).
FWIW, I have been using one-inch-sensor Nikon 1 bodies with Nikon 70-300mm or Sigma 100-400mm lenses for several years. They make good combos for situations where I could use tighter compositions of still or slow-moving birds. An OM-1 (or later-model E-M1) with 100-400mm lens would be able to do that, and shoot action. A photographer named Thomas Stirr was a Nikon 1 user for several years, then moved on to Olympus when the Nikon 1 system was discontinued by Nikon. He gets amazing bird photos with an E-M1X and 100-400mm lens combo. Check out his Small-Format Photography website to see his work. I like it.
Bill,
After 3 pages, I'm sure you've seen there are a lot of varying opinions.
Since your brother seems to be rather new, I doubt if some of the nuance being discussed here will mean anything to him.
One thing I would hope we can all agree upon is all the major brands of cameras are good, most of the mirrorless lenses from the major brands (including Sigma, Tamron, etc) are good. Some camera / lens combos are better suited for some specific circumstances than others; however, for general wildlife and nature shooting, I would say just pick one in his price range and go for it. Learning fieldcraft, photographic technique, exposure, composition, colors, all the particulars of creating good images are brand independent and any of today's cameras will allow him to progress. I doubt if there are many photographers who have been shooting more than a few years who are still shooting the same kit they started with.
Jeff
Regardless, the OM-1 with a lens like the 100-400mm will give you 200-800mm and can be had used for very close to the $3000 the OP asked for. Tell me any other system that will give you 800mm f6.3, excellent animal and bird AF and Pro-Capture that has probably the best weather sealing there is for $3000. There is a Jared Polin YT video where he takes one of the earlier models with lens and stands in the shower taking pictures for something like 3 minutes with no issues.
You’re right…MFT does have those disadvantages…but it also has some disadvantages due to the smaller sensor and you just can’t beat physics. That doesn’t make it a bad choice…but OP‘s brother is just getting into wildlife…so the better growth potential as he gets better of a larger sensor is a valid point. That said…your point of budget vs capability vs resale later is valid…but the potential con of the resale approach is having to relearn all the muscle memory of a new system…which again doesn’t make either choice right or wrong, just pointing out various options and things for him to consider. Jumping in as a long time MFT and disparaging the “so called experts” doesn’t really help the civil discussion…but some of the comments re MFT and Canon don’t help that as well. Let’s stay nice and not act like the majority over on UHH.
It's worth repeating that there is a major stumbling block to changing lens systems. People do switch but it's often a major reset when some tidal shift happens in the market. For example someone jumping from dslr to mirrorless might choose to have a total reset and change lens mounts. But most of the time the best strategy is to choose a lens system, buy quality, and stick with it through the minor leapfrogging that happens with bodies. You can be sure that the Canon R1 or the R5 version ii will leapfrog the others and be the holy grail, but just as quick there will be an A1 version ii that will leapfrog it and then a z9 version ii. And on forever. In the short run there is gnashing of teeth, but in the long run someone looking at art will not be able to identify which camera or lens it was or even what size the sensor was.
EricKlees
Well-known member
I am a Nikon guy but I always say to buy and use what you can afford and what works for you. I personally as a wildlife and bird in flight photographer would never get a FF body with only 24mp as you have very little croppability. For FF, 45mp is my lowest consideration. 24mp is fine for an APS-C body. For me, I need a body that will allow me to get the shots I want. So the AF system is the next thing I would look at. and 3rd would be the lens options. Keep one thing in mind. He may pay a touch more more for a good lens but wouldn't have to replace it later like a Sony 200-600mm or the Canon 100-500mm
That said If they are looking to learn on a good system and then move up if they want to stay in it, then they should be looking at used gear. This will allow them to basically use the gear almost rent free for close to a years time as they will be able to resell whatever gear they want to replace for little loss. here are some used and new bodies to consider and lenses
Bodies/lenses to consider. (Used prices from Fred Miranda's buy and sell page)
Sony A9 ($1400-$1600 used) 200-600mm lens (~$1600 used)
Canon R7 ($1400 new) 100-500mm ($2500 used) or for brighter days a 600f11 ($800 new) or 800f11 ($1,000 new)
Canon R6 ($1250-$1400ish used) 100-500mm (~$2500 used)
The best value there is the Sony A9 with 200-600mm lens in the $3200 price range. The 200-600mm lens wouldn't need to be updated if they updated the body later down the road, it's a very good and sharp lens.
That said If they are looking to learn on a good system and then move up if they want to stay in it, then they should be looking at used gear. This will allow them to basically use the gear almost rent free for close to a years time as they will be able to resell whatever gear they want to replace for little loss. here are some used and new bodies to consider and lenses
Bodies/lenses to consider. (Used prices from Fred Miranda's buy and sell page)
Sony A9 ($1400-$1600 used) 200-600mm lens (~$1600 used)
Canon R7 ($1400 new) 100-500mm ($2500 used) or for brighter days a 600f11 ($800 new) or 800f11 ($1,000 new)
Canon R6 ($1250-$1400ish used) 100-500mm (~$2500 used)
The best value there is the Sony A9 with 200-600mm lens in the $3200 price range. The 200-600mm lens wouldn't need to be updated if they updated the body later down the road, it's a very good and sharp lens.
EricKlees
Well-known member
Only if you buy new, which in this case I think is a total waste of money. They should be looking to buy used and maybe slightly older gear. This way they can resell for upgrades or system switch with very little to no loss in money. Also, looking at whats to come will just make you never buy a camera, like PC's, if you keep waiting to see what's coming in 6 months or a year you will just never buy. The Z9 II is likely not coming till end of 2025 or sometime in 2026 as Nikon flagships are always on a 4 year life cycle.
Just recently the results of the annual iPhone photo contest were published. There were some really (really, really) good images. Sensor size doesn’t seem to trump creativity. Probably not too useful for bif but the state-of-the-art for cell phone cameras seems to surpass the actual user requirements for walk about snap shots. So, unless you have specialized needs, such as, wildlife, your cell phone is perfectly adequate. If your cell phone works for most things then M43 is OK for wildlife.
Woody Meristem
Well-known member
Steve may slap my wrist or ban me, but I'll reiterate what I said about the "experts" who say MFT gear isn't adequate for wildlife -- take a look at the photographs, including BIF, taken by Thomas Stirr, Mike Lane, Mark Buckler or Espen Helland. Those are experts who use MFT gear and who all switched from heavy, expensive FF cameras to MFT after weighing the advantages and disadvantages of each format. Beautiful superb photographs can be taken with any camera currently on the market and many older cameras -- it all depends on the ability of the person behind the lens much more than the size of the sensor.
A used Nikon D500 with maybe a 200-500 would be in the price range. A zoom adds flexibility though a used 500 pf would be good… though might break the budget.
Andy Rouse is another good one that uses MFT and makes some interesting videos.
I agree that a good quality used d500 with a 300mm f4 pf, combined with a tc14III is a great combo for hiking and birding. I hike sometimes long distances.Depends on how much wildlife experience your brother has...
For a begginer, at under 3000$ a used Nikon D500 and a 200-500F5.6/300mm f4 PF/ used 500mm PF are, IMHO, still the best option.
While newer mirrorless cameras might have more bells and whistles, as a reliable, usable in the filed system, the old Nikon D500 still stands with the best of them (e.g: it gave the A9 and 100-400 a run for it's money when shooting seagulls in a feeding freenzy... and that's with a sluggish Sigma 150-600mm C).
If it must be a mirroless camera, he should stretch the budget to 4k and go for the OM-1 and a used 300mm f4 (and assorted TC's). If I were starting fresh, I'd pick this set-up for wildlife (especially birds) over any 20-ish Mpx camera(even FF) and a 200-600-ish zoom. Just add a pinch of DXOs PureRAW and between that, the nearly 2 stops faster and very sharp lens, the speed of the camera and the miriad of functions, you are more likely than not to get the sharper, better looking photo over even FF alternates.
I'd avoid the 100-400 zoom's though... not really that great.
But the most important thing:
Most people vastly overbuy their gear. If you look at the presentation section of this site, of all the wildlife shots posted in the past week, there might be 3 or 5* that couldn't have been taken with a D7200 and the old AF-S 300mm f4D lens using the old noggin'. And that combo can be had for under 1000$ if you dig a bit through the used market...
*except maybe the true macro ones that do need a 1:1 lens
When the swallows are flying closely overhead I can take the tc off and get the full value of the d500s AF system. Even with the tc, the AF is great. I barely know I'm carrying the camera compared to using a tamron 150-600 g2. It's also very cost effective. Maybe about $2200 or even less.
I also have a 500mm f5.6 pf that I just got used and love!!. I can hike with it but it is not as comfortable as the 300mm combo. The reach is a little better than the 300mm with the tc, however. I think a d500 with a 500mm pf will be around 3k.
I'm a learning photographer and can't afford the z8 or z9 but think I will eventually get there. I'm no where near exhausting what shooting with this excellent dslr will teach me.
I expect to use my 300mm and 500mm pfs with an FTZ adapter after going mirrorless. There's no way I'd be able to get a z8 along with the Z telephoto options that are equivalent to what I have now.
Others have a lot more experience than I but I really like that some of Nikons best reasonably priced teles will pair well once I go mirrorless. I will say that I don't yet know what I'm missing and plan on looking at a z8 for educational purposes. But I'm 2 years away from making the switch at least financially. I'm still having a lot of fun however!
I'm new to this forum and am learning a lot from it, along with Steve's books. Thanks
I should have mentioned that used 300mm f4 pf lenses are hitting the market as folks are trading up to mirrorless also the 500mm. I have a friend who bought an excellent copy of the 300mm for $850 and a refurbished TC1.4III on sale at Nikon. With a used d500, it came to about $2200.
I loved the D-500 with the 300f4 and a 1.4 TC but felt the reach was too short so the 500PF was almost always mounted. The weight is almost the same as an OM-1/100-400 but I liked the additional reach and subject ID of the mirrorless OM-1.
Tom
Tom
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