Calling those who print

[bleirer]

I would not assume one would automatically get better results than a pro shop like whcc, bay photo, finerworks, Digital Silver Imaging, etc. Part depends on what product is chosen. But they have done the work of profiling their printers and papers and also have large format printers and RIP software.

 

[bleirer]

This is a followup from a webinar Glyn Dewis did for Calibrite. I wish I could post the recording from the original webinar but couldn't figure out how to link it. Anyway he is demonstrating monitor calibration as well as printing on both the Epson and Canon printer. Worthwhile I think.

LIVE Broadcast: PRINTING PROBLEMS | Epson + Canon VERSUS Lightroom + Photoshop — Glyn Dewis

In this recording of a LIVE Broadcast hosted on both YouTube and Facebook on Sunday 10th December 2023, I show how to correctly Calibrate your Display for YOUR workspace and go through printing images on both Canon and Epson printers showing how your choice of printing software can make a BIG differ

glyndewis.com

 

[EricBowles]

Eric, I am now even more clueless about paper, and my fear of getting the wrong paper is real.

Let’s brake it down. Tell me if I am making sense here.

3 categories.
1) just get the print done and should look ok.
2) the print should be high quality, with normal paper, like Lusture. No fancy coatings or specifics.
3) a specialty paper for a specific need or look that requires planning before editing.

I would go for 2, with a good balance for Portraiture and landscape, but a higher quality one compared to WHCC prints

after a year home printing, I can begin experimenting with more specialized scene specific papers.

Hi Joel

I think you have the options figured out pretty well. Option 2 is a very good starting point - both to cost effectively approach the subject and to produce good prints. It's also very cost effective. Something like the Epson Ultra Premium Luster - or similar papers and weights from other manufacturers - would be a good starting point. Unless you have a good reason otherwise, using Epson paper on an Epson Printer or Canon paper on a Canon printer is likely a good approach. It eliminates variables when you are learning your equipment and technique. I'd stick with one paper for six months or so before branching out and experimenting. It's pretty easy to get distracted and start experimenting with papers prematurely - before you have basic printing mastered.

 

[ajrmd]

Hi Joel

I think you have the options figured out pretty well. Option 2 is a very good starting point - both to cost effectively approach the subject and to produce good prints. It's also very cost effective. Something like the Epson Ultra Premium Luster - or similar papers and weights from other manufacturers - would be a good starting point. Unless you have a good reason otherwise, using Epson paper on an Epson Printer or Canon paper on a Canon printer is likely a good approach. It eliminates variables when you are learning your equipment and technique. I'd stick with one paper for six months or so before branching out and experimenting. It's pretty easy to get distracted and start experimenting with papers prematurely - before you have basic printing mastered.

Good advice. More important than selecting an individual paper is learning how to optimize (process) images to produce the best quality prints. While there is a plethora of information regarding calibration and color management (which is fairly cut and dried), the amount of information related to image optimization is rather sparse beyond sharpening, resizing, etc. Understanding and maximizing print tonality and color fidelity are infinitely more important than (though are dependent upon) individual paper choices.

 

[Al Wyman]

What "Bad Reviews" about the Epson P900 are you referring to. The P900 along with the Canon Pro-1000 are considered the two best "home" 17" printers.
Matt Kloskowski (MattK.com) has free calendar templates but you would have to get your own binding done.

 

[EricBowles]

As with complaints about cameras, there are plenty of complaints about printers. Invariably the complaints are related to people who print infrequently, first time printers, or people who expect the current product to work like some other product. That's not to discount issues that people have experienced - just have some perspective when you read reviews or comments on the internet without all the facts.

I've had my share of minor issues with my Epson 4900 - but I fired it up today after not using it for a month. I went through a 15 minute routine I have for cleaning/reactivating heads (using the controls for manual cleaning with the Powerful setting for each pair of colors that shows less than perfect test). My first nozzle check showed every color was clogged. My second nozzle check 15 minutes later showed every nozzle was completely clear. Now I'm making some really nice prints that will replace a display on my wall - a laughing gull backlit flying and backlit with early morning light, tall sea oats before sunrise, and a huge oak tree with fern covered branches.

I'm sure the Canon or Epson printers will be fine. Both are well regarded.

 

[BlackRockArt]

As with complaints about cameras, there are plenty of complaints about printers. Invariably the complaints are related to people who print infrequently, first time printers, or people who expect the current product to work like some other product. That's not to discount issues that people have experienced - just have some perspective when you read reviews or comments on the internet without all the facts.

I've had my share of minor issues with my Epson 4900 - but I fired it up today after not using it for a month. I went through a 15 minute routine I have for cleaning/reactivating heads (using the controls for manual cleaning with the Powerful setting for each pair of colors that shows less than perfect test). My first nozzle check showed every color was clogged. My second nozzle check 15 minutes later showed every nozzle was completely clear. Now I'm making some really nice prints that will replace a display on my wall - a laughing gull backlit flying and backlit with early morning light, tall sea oats before sunrise, and a huge oak tree with fern covered branches.

I'm sure the Canon or Epson printers will be fine. Both are well regarded.

I read through some of the reviews of the Epson P-900 printer on the BH Photo & Video website, and a few 1-star reviews are due to the rebate program, also some have issues with the front paper loading, while I could understand the frustration, but these were not comments on the print quality. A little patience and practice would go a long way; also I try to keep the printer on even surface and covered when it's not used.

Oliver

 

[EricBowles]

I read through some of the reviews of the Epson P-900 printer on the BH Photo & Video website, and a few 1-star reviews are due to the rebate program, also some have issues with the front paper loading, while I could understand the frustration, but these were not comments on the print quality. A little patience and practice would go a long way; also I try to keep the printer on even surface and covered when it's not used.

Oliver

Great point on keeping a cover on your printer. I have a cloth cover draped over my printer - and have done so since it was new. Keeping your printer covered reduces problems from dust and slows the amount of clogs related to drying out. Another note is to maintain a balanced level of humidity for your printer. Printers sometimes do poorly in places where the air has very low humidity.

 

[Whiskeyman]

Well, I have a fear of falling into a paper rabbit hole.
There are so many papers to choose.
Like lenses, I’m afraid I will stock 10 different papers…

For example the picture below.
I believe it needs another type of paper for this picture vs. a bird picture

View attachment 76264

Joel, I understand your deliemma about papers. It's an important part of the print process to get right. But even a great paper can't do everything, and IMO I'd decline to print that shot. I've tried printing shots similar to this and have not been pleased with the performance of any paper. I believe that you'll find the print results to be less than satisfactory, as the final product is likely to be a "muddy" print.

 

[Whiskeyman]

I don't think a sample set of prints is a good idea for someone new to printing their own work. There are still variables - each image needs to be optimized when editing for the paper selected. You would not want to print an image edited for a glossy or luster paper on a matte paper. This is a much better value for someone who prints on a a specific set of papers for a specific look and wants consulting help with the alternatives. While you can use a profile and render an image ready to print on a specific paper, you still need to edit it with the look appropriate for that paper.

For example, you would not want to print on a paper known for great detail in shadows unless your image had good shadow detail and your edit also emphasized those shadows. A tight grain paper such as a baryta is fine, but I'd want to evaluate it using a B&W image that could take advantage of the paper or a color image that had detail that would be helped with a fine texture.

Said another way, look at some images in a museum or gallery, and pay attention to the paper that was used, why it does or does not work for the image, and how that could translate into your work.

In looking at papers, consider the value of the work and the price point it should carry. If you are printing 4x6 and 5x7 images on a small printer, you want a relatively inexpensive paper - probably in sheets that match well to the image size you want. If you are printing fine art images in large sizes, you want a much more robust paper and the more expensive papers would be viable. For perspective, an 8.5x11 sheet costs anywhere from 60 cents for Epson Ultra Premium Luster to $1.30 or more for Hahnemuhle Photo Pearl or $1.55 per sheet for Canson Infinity Baryta.

I agree with Eric's synopsis here, it is well described.

My 'two bobs worth' is I'd add texture as an additional element to print media; finish, whiteness and weight. I predominantly print landscapes much more than wildlife images. I find in many landscape scenes a lightly textured media adds value to the printed image. It is subjective to each particular image and of course, one's personal taste.

For this I use Canson Edition Etching Rag paper. I'm sure there are many equivalent brands out there, just for me this one is readily accessible here in Australia.

I am of another train of thought in that printing on sample pack papers is a great way to experiment and experience first-hand what kind of papers are better/best for prints of different types of photos.

 

[bleirer]

Question: when I send out to print if I've done softproofing with a profile provided by a print shop I would not embed that profile when I send the file. If creating a profile at home or downloading a profile from the paper maker, is one embedding that profile as part of home printing?

 

[sportmaster]

As with complaints about cameras, there are plenty of complaints about printers. Invariably the complaints are related to people who print infrequently, first time printers, or people who expect the current product to work like some other product. That's not to discount issues that people have experienced - just have some perspective when you read reviews or comments on the internet without all the facts.

I've had my share of minor issues with my Epson 4900 - but I fired it up today after not using it for a month. I went through a 15 minute routine I have for cleaning/reactivating heads (using the controls for manual cleaning with the Powerful setting for each pair of colors that shows less than perfect test). My first nozzle check showed every color was clogged. My second nozzle check 15 minutes later showed every nozzle was completely clear. Now I'm making some really nice prints that will replace a display on my wall - a laughing gull backlit flying and backlit with early morning light, tall sea oats before sunrise, and a huge oak tree with fern covered branches.

I'm sure the Canon or Epson printers will be fine. Both are well regarded.

Epson 4900? You are living on borrowed time.

 

[sportmaster]

There was a part replaced about three years ago - I don't recall the part - not a print head but a pump or seal of some sort that kept air from the print head. It was reported to me as the third part number for that printer - meaning it had been updated twice. Since then it has been pretty good - but it needs to be used regularly. The thing is, I love the prints it makes.

Damper.

 

[ajrmd]

Question: when I send out to print if I've done softproofing with a profile provided by a print shop I would not embed that profile when I send the file. If creating a profile at home or downloading a profile from the paper maker, is one embedding that profile as part of home printing?

1) Do not embed the profile and save it in the color space and file type they indicate - usually .jpg/.tiff & sRGB/aRGB. Usually, you will also need to indicate a preference as to whether they should apply corrections to your file or have them print without any. If you have made adjustments to the file and are 100% certain that you want no corrections performed, then indicate so.

2) When printing at home, the profile is selected or applied in the print driver. Depending on the OS, the print profile exists in different locations on your device.

Soft proofing on a monitor has specific and limited applications both in terms of assessing tonality, color, and rendering. Printing, like any craft is often an iterative process and to achieve the best possible print requires one's assessment and subsequent alterations to achieve the desired result.

 

[bleirer]

1) Do not embed the profile and save it in the color space and file type they indicate - usually .jpg/.tiff & sRGB/aRGB. Usually, you will also need to indicate a preference as to whether they should apply corrections to your file or have them print without any. If you have made adjustments to the file and are 100% certain that you want no corrections performed, then indicate so.

2) When printing at home, the profile is selected or applied in the print driver. Depending on the OS, the print profile exists in different locations on your device.

Soft proofing on a monitor has specific and limited applications both in terms of assessing tonality, color, and rendering. Printing, like any craft is often an iterative process and to achieve the best possible print requires one's assessment and subsequent alterations to achieve the desired result.

So in number 2 above, assuming a profile provided by a paper maker, one would use the provided profile for softproofing, then save the file with regular color space (don't embed any printer profile) but select the same provided profile from the print settings?

 

[JoelKlein]

Joel, I understand your deliemma about papers. It's an important part of the print process to get right. But even a great paper can't do everything, and IMO I'd decline to print that shot. I've tried printing shots similar to this and have not been pleased with the performance of any paper. I believe that you'll find the print results to be less than satisfactory, as the final product is likely to be a "muddy" print.

This is really interesting information.
Could WHCC get it right? Or those kind of shots are for screen viewing only

 

[Whiskeyman]

This is really interesting information.
Could WHCC get it right? Or those kind of shots are for screen viewing only

I do not know the answer to the first question, and the second question's answer is more a matter of personal preference.

All I can say is that I've been less than pleased when I've printed shots this dark and without more contrast. Looking back on it, I shouldn't have stated that you wouldn't be satisfied with a print of that photo. How you feel about it would be entirely up to you.

 

[Lisa]

I have an Epson ET-8500 which is a mega tank printer and I am really impressed with the results. I can print 4x6 to 8x10. If I need an enlargement I send my file out to a reputable printer online. I don't live near a lab where I could conveniently pick up my order and I don't like to wait for the mail.

I buy quality papers from Red River and results are amazing! It is immensely pleasing for me to be able to print my own and look at the results immediately after editing on LrC or various plug-ins. This is my hobby and I want to enjoy it as much as I can so the cost is not a factor for me. In fact I don't think it is very costly, especially with a mega-tank printer.

 

[sportmaster]

As with complaints about cameras, there are plenty of complaints about printers. Invariably the complaints are related to people who print infrequently, first time printers, or people who expect the current product to work like some other product. That's not to discount issues that people have experienced - just have some perspective when you read reviews or comments on the internet without all the facts.

I've had my share of minor issues with my Epson 4900 - but I fired it up today after not using it for a month. I went through a 15 minute routine I have for cleaning/reactivating heads (using the controls for manual cleaning with the Powerful setting for each pair of colors that shows less than perfect test). My first nozzle check showed every color was clogged. My second nozzle check 15 minutes later showed every nozzle was completely clear. Now I'm making some really nice prints that will replace a display on my wall - a laughing gull backlit flying and backlit with early morning light, tall sea oats before sunrise, and a huge oak tree with fern covered branches.

I'm sure the Canon or Epson printers will be fine. Both are well regarded.

You are living on borrowed time with that Epson 4900. It will eventually develop unclearable clogs, no matter what you do or how much expensive ink you waste with endless cleaning cycles. I have tried every conceivable method to prevent or clear clogs with the 4-5, 4900 printers I owned. Eventually, the clogs will return. Humidity controlled print room, covers, special ink carts with expensive cleaning solutions, special factory tech service software, Windex-soaked paper towels, ultrasonic head cleaner, daily printer exercise programs, etc.

 

[EricBowles]

You are living on borrowed time with that Epson 4900. It will eventually develop unclearable clogs, no matter what you do or how much ink you waste with endless cleaning cycles. I have tried every conceivable method to clear clogs or prevent. Eventually, they will return. Humidified print room, special ink carts with expensive cleaning solutions, special factory tech service software, ultrasonic head cleaner, daily printer exercise programs, etc...........I've have tried it all.

Have you had the pump replaced via service? There was a bad part preventing a proper seal on the head. You still need to use the printer regularly - it's a high volume printer - but works quite well for me. If I make a print every week or 10 days, it's maintenance free. Clearing minor clogs after 2-3 weeks idle only takes a single cycle.

I will replace this printer before too long. It's a balance in terms of timing replacement vs. the unused ink in the old printer. With all carts full, it holds $1200 worth of ink.

 

[sportmaster]

Have you had the pump replaced via service? There was a bad part preventing a proper seal on the head. You still need to use the printer regularly - it's a high volume printer - but works quite well for me. If I make a print every week or 10 days, it's maintenance free. Clearing minor clogs after 2-3 weeks idle only takes a single cycle.

I will replace this printer before too long. It's a balance in terms of timing replacement vs. the unused ink in the old printer. With all carts full, it holds $1200 worth of ink.

That's the lure of the 4900. There are so many around that can be had for little money or even free. Expired ink carts are the most effective way to lower cost.

 

[kkwilcox]

I print at home with an Epson P600. It is satisfying and provides something I can "hold in my hand". Plus I can try a variety of papers. I am sure I do not save any money, but that's not the point. What I print I either hang on my walls or give as gifts. I keep spackling paste & touch-up paint to fill in the nail holes if I need to rearrange things!

 

[Bingo]

Although instant gratification is nice, I found I don't print enough to keep the ink from drying out in the print head. Bigger problem after I came out of retirement.

 

[Whiskeyman]

Although instant gratification is nice, I found I don't print enough to keep the ink from drying out in the print head. Bigger problem after I came out of retirement.

Then you need to print more!

 

[sinewsworn]

Hi folks.

I have questions, if you don't mind:

1. Do you home print or store print?
2. If you home print, what do you print on (hardware) and how do you mount?
3. Is home printing worth it financially these days, or is it more hassle than it's worth?
4. I rent my apartment and want to put some photos up but don't what to have holes all over my walls: what mounting and hanging solutions do you recommend? I'm guessing foam board is the lightest option.

Thanks in advance.

Print at home. Recently upgraded to a Pro 300 from a Pro 100. Printed some older files that I had copies of from the Pro 100. The colors, vibrancy and overall look is much better than the Pro 100 output. I print many images on 4X6 paper for quality control purposes. I found that my 4X6 prints are saleable. Booth cost and the tedium of waiting for customers and fielding the “ My shot of that —— is better than yours” comments for small return borders on insanity! I use Canon paper with good result.