Canon R5 II Rumored Specs

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The rumored specs did say it would be 45MP BSI stacked sensor supposedly 30% better than R3 for rolling shutter.
As much as I would want to believe that, it would entail some astronomical improvements on Canon's part scaling up a sensor with 2x MP and reducing the read out speed at the same time by 30% compared to the R3? You're talking about a read out speed of 3.6 ms which is faster than the Z8/Z9 and A1. If that's the case, they wouldn't need a mechanical shutter (which by the way is around 3 ms). Also, why wouldn't Canon then drop this sensor in the R1 with read out speeds that fast? Maybe they meant 30% improved over the old R5 which would put it in the 10 ms range or about what an olympus or fuji would do.
 
As much as I would want to believe that, it would entail some astronomical improvements on Canon's part scaling up a sensor with 2x MP and reducing the read out speed at the same time by 30% compared to the R3? You're talking about a read out speed of 3.6 ms which is faster than the Z8/Z9 and A1. If that's the case, they wouldn't need a mechanical shutter (which by the way is around 3 ms). Also, why wouldn't Canon then drop this sensor in the R1 with read out speeds that fast? Maybe they meant 30% improved over the old R5 which would put it in the 10 ms range or about what an olympus or fuji would do.

We will see, they said compared to the R3. One explanation might be that the electronic shutter is 12 bit like the current R5, which would explain why they would keep the mechanical as it is 14 bit.
 
We will see, they said compared to the R3. One explanation might be that the electronic shutter is 12 bit like the current R5, which would explain why they would keep the mechanical as it is 14 bit.
CanonRumorsGuy confirmed on the CR forums that the 30% faster scan speed was only known for video. He has no leak on how fast the camera scans in stills mode.
If it scans at 30% faster than the R3 in stills mode it will place it right around the A1/Z9...just slightly faster actually but near as makes no difference. So it is a feasible specification and is really needed for the R5II if the R1 is only going to be 24MP.

R3 scans at 1/209s in stills so 30% faster for the R5II would be 1/271s. A1 is 1/258s and Z9 is 1/268s
Source: https://horshack-dpreview.github.io/RollingShutter/?Model1
 
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CanonRumorsGuy confirmed on the CR forums that the 30% faster scan speed was only known for video. He has no leak on how fast the camera scans in stills mode.
If it scans at 30% faster than the R3 in stills mode it will place it right around the A1/Z9...just slightly faster actually but near as makes no difference. So it is a feasible specification and is really needed for the R5II if the R1 is only going to be 24MP.

R3 scans at 1/209s in stills so 30% faster for the R5II would be 1/271s. A1 is 1/258s and Z9 is 1/268s
Source: https://horshack-dpreview.github.io/RollingShutter/?Model1
Duplicate post - my apologies.
 
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CanonRumorsGuy confirmed on the CR forums that the 30% faster scan speed was only known for video. He has no leak on how fast the camera scans in stills mode.
If it scans at 30% faster than the R3 in stills mode it will place it right around the A1/Z9...just slightly faster actually but near as makes no difference. So it is a feasible specification and is really needed for the R5II if the R1 is only going to be 24MP.

R3 scans at 1/209s in stills so 30% faster for the R5II would be 1/271s. A1 is 1/258s and Z9 is 1/268s
Source: https://horshack-dpreview.github.io/RollingShutter/?Model1
Again, if Canon had made such a leap in sensor technology to match that of the Z8/Z9 and A1, it is at some level surprising that they didn't drop it in the R1 unless their data pipeline was such that they wouldn't have been able to offer 120 FPS and useful pre-capture? Perhaps they chose a smaller sensor for the R1 for data processing purposes.

If the 30% is only for video benchmarks, it's difficult to interpret. At 4k 120 P the R3 is 1/134 and the R5 exceeds that already. At 8k, the R5 and Z8/Z9 are already very similar.
 
They never make their flagships high resolution, I think it's just their thing for the market they are serving. For the R5ii I'd think they would want to leapfrog the z9 and the A1 at least temporarily until they have their own version ii. For sure I would think they'd want zero rolling shutter and more than the current 20 fps, but also to extend their slight lead in dynamic range and noise. Hoping this Wednesday they will announce the specs. Or at least some Wednesday before the Olympics, or for sure some day that ends in a Y some year that starts with 202.
 
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They apparently don't agree. I'm sure they have the market research to back up their decisions.
 
They apparently don't agree. I'm sure they have the market research to back up their decisions.

Canon didn't plan their R lineup like this from the beginning or they wouldn't have released the R3 as their professional sports camera. They clearly called an audible and are now trying to right the ship. To say that they have the market research to back up this move would ignore the fact that they made the mistake in the first place. There's no way they planned from the outset to have two "flagship" cameras at the top so closely to each other, both committed pretty much exclusively to one genre. No way shape or form did they set out with that roadmap. So Canon is fallible and makes mistakes. We're seeing a biggie right here, IMO.
 
It's going on the assumption that the R3 was a mistake of some kind, but I think they have sold a bunch of them.
 
No, it's not. The R3 wasn't a mistake. If the R1 specs that have leaked are correct, the R1 is a mistake because it's too similar to the R3.
I agree with this. Canon released the R3 almost a year after Sony released their A1 and got a good look at how their new primary competitor was positioning their flagship. Megapixels and speed for Sony. Maybe Canon was planning to call their R3 an R1 originally, maybe not. But they released a low MP sports camera in the R3 and made it very clear it was not their flagship. In other words, bigger and better is coming, to compete with the "do-it-all" new flagship class. Nikon also released their "do-it-all" shortly after and the race was on.

That was nearly three years ago. Canon has had all this time to put out an R1 to compete with the A1 and Z9 but reports have suggested they've hit many snags and delays because of sensor tech. Now after much pressure and speculation that the R1 doesn't even exist, they decide to release this version of it, which suspiciously sounds a lot like their R3, as if they're just scrambling to get something out. Seems like they were trying to build an R1 that could compete but hit snags and just had to get something out before the pitchforks.
 
I bet R3 owners, when it is time for a new camera, will feel they are moving up to another level with the R1. If they eventually discontinue the R3 then no harm to those buyers.
 
I hope you're right and that's great for sports shooters. But Canon will still be targeting a very niche group of photographers with no direct competitor to the A1 or Z9 flagships. The R5 is priced below $4000 because it's a third-tier body and in no way meant to compete with the flagships. Canon goofed and missed with this one if it's what the rumors say.
 
I don't really see the third tier thing. Depending on what they do with the optional grip it could be as weatherproof and durable as the others. With the added cooling they are talking about the video issue could be solved as well. We will have to see what it is and does and then judge.
 
It's a sub-$4000 camera and the flagships are upwards of $6500, with exception to Nikon which was priced to gain market share. That extra $2500 is not for the built-in grip with Canon, it's for a wide variety of "upgrades" too long to list here. Some may feel having the R5 is enough for them but it's priced according to where Canon feels it is in their lineup.
 
That $4k price tag does make it seem like a value, if the performance lives up to expectations. Could temporarily be the top performer for the landscape, nature, wildlife crowd and a good choice for journalists, sports, events. Wait, a top all around camera.
 
I only hope Steve writes a book on it so we get more canonites here.
 
They never make their flagships high resolution, I think it's just their thing for the market they are serving. For the R5ii I'd think they would want to leapfrog the z9 and the A1 at least temporarily until they have their own version ii. For sure I would think they'd want zero rolling shutter and more than the current 20 fps, but also to extend their slight lead in dynamic range and noise. Hoping this Wednesday they will announce the specs. Or at least some Wednesday before the Olympics, or for sure some day that ends in a Y some year that starts with 202.
That's been Canon's strategy for a while though I think the underlying reasons behind this have more to do with the technology and data processing/management than anything else. If Canon could produce a stacked sensor with 40+ MP and high DR, and fast read out, and offer 120 FPS, pre-capture, etc. all at a reasonable price, it would be in the R1. They can't that's why they are offering a lower MP "flagship" and a higher MP body which will be likely crippled in some regard for everyone else.

The original R5 was a bit of an anomaly for Canon because it was the first body which deviated from the traditional Canon strategy. Yes, in the days of the 1d and 5d series, your theory largely held true and for example if one looks at the contemporary 1dxmkii and 5dmkIV the differences in performance were significant. Although the cameras shared some similarities (61 AF points), the 1dxmkii had a much superior AF system and 2x faster FPS. The 5dmkIV was a great camera but it couldn't perform on par with the 1dxmkii for events where critical AF and speed were needed.

When the R5 was released it was groundbreaking for Canon. Suddenly, Canon users had a camera which could deliver a high FPS, and accurate, flagship like AF. Quite candidly, when the R3 came out, I didn't see a need to purchase one initially because the R5 performed so well for sports, WL, portraits, and nearly everything else. After purchasing an R3, I sold it in favor of another R5 body because the better battery life, real time EVF, and slightly better AF of the R3 were offset by having two similar bodies, a smaller form, and 8k video. Plus, I could buy another lens with the price difference.

So, what do you think the R5II will bring which leapfrogs the Z9 (I think you meant Z8) and A1? Based on the current rumors, at most they'll achieve parity. Again, I seriously doubt that Canon has brought to market a similar MP, stacked sensor, with magical properties. Perhaps they will? Also, it's difficult for me to see how the features of the R1 suddenly take down the A9III or even Nikon's Z9. If these bodies achieve parity with Nikon/Sony, then Canon users can breathe a sigh of relief. Quite candidly, if Canon had refreshed the R5 with a stacked sensor with a fast read out, affording real time evf, and reducing RS, improving the 8k runtime (which they've supposedly done in improved heat management), offered real-time zebras for stills (? doesn't appear on the table), and put in the R3's AF, it would have been fantastic. But it took them nearly 4 years to do so and in that time, in addition to releasing a pair of really top notch bodies, Nikon has also presented an amazing series of affordably priced, lightweight, high quality prime telephotos. So even if the R5II is all that, one is still stuck with either purchasing lower end glass, or selling their first born for a large, f/4 600 mm. No thank you.
 
That's been Canon's strategy for a while though I think the underlying reasons behind this have more to do with the technology and data processing/management than anything else. If Canon could produce a stacked sensor with 40+ MP and high DR, and fast read out, and offer 120 FPS, pre-capture, etc. all at a reasonable price, it would be in the R1. They can't that's why they are offering a lower MP "flagship" and a higher MP body which will be likely crippled in some regard for everyone else.

The original R5 was a bit of an anomaly for Canon because it was the first body which deviated from the traditional Canon strategy. Yes, in the days of the 1d and 5d series, your theory largely held true and for example if one looks at the contemporary 1dxmkii and 5dmkIV the differences in performance were significant. Although the cameras shared some similarities (61 AF points), the 1dxmkii had a much superior AF system and 2x faster FPS. The 5dmkIV was a great camera but it couldn't perform on par with the 1dxmkii for events where critical AF and speed were needed.

When the R5 was released it was groundbreaking for Canon. Suddenly, Canon users had a camera which could deliver a high FPS, and accurate, flagship like AF. Quite candidly, when the R3 came out, I didn't see a need to purchase one initially because the R5 performed so well for sports, WL, portraits, and nearly everything else. After purchasing an R3, I sold it in favor of another R5 body because the better battery life, real time EVF, and slightly better AF of the R3 were offset by having two similar bodies, a smaller form, and 8k video. Plus, I could buy another lens with the price difference.

So, what do you think the R5II will bring which leapfrogs the Z9 (I think you meant Z8) and A1? Based on the current rumors, at most they'll achieve parity. Again, I seriously doubt that Canon has brought to market a similar MP, stacked sensor, with magical properties. Perhaps they will? Also, it's difficult for me to see how the features of the R1 suddenly take down the A9III or even Nikon's Z9. If these bodies achieve parity with Nikon/Sony, then Canon users can breathe a sigh of relief. Quite candidly, if Canon had refreshed the R5 with a stacked sensor with a fast read out, affording real time evf, and reducing RS, improving the 8k runtime (which they've supposedly done in improved heat management), offered real-time zebras for stills (? doesn't appear on the table), and put in the R3's AF, it would have been fantastic. But it took them nearly 4 years to do so and in that time, in addition to releasing a pair of really top notch bodies, Nikon has also presented an amazing series of affordably priced, lightweight, high quality prime telephotos. So even if the R5II is all that, one is still stuck with either purchasing lower end glass, or selling their first born for a large, f/4 600 mm. No thank you.
You don't want for much in a $4,000 body, do ua? That's never going to happen in a $4,000 body. That would be cutting edge specs, performance and features. I'm today's world, a camera like would have a starting price point is $6,500 and could be upwards of $7,500.

Canon's implementation of the 195fps is a gimmick that really isn't usable 95% of the time. To much severe limitations. Sony's A9III 120fps is limited as well, with 24MP but mostly with a shadow buffer but better, with less limitations than Canon. Nikon's only limitation is jpeg but based on NPS zoom calls, are working on add that with raw support.

It will be interesting to finally see under the hood of both the R1 and R5II. If nothing else to see where camp will push Nikon and Sony in the high res sensor tech/performance/features, i feel the best features and performance will be the lower res 24mp.

If the sensors are indeed fast enough, the true limitation may be the PCIe 3.0 hardware and the new PCIe 4.0 slots supporting the latest CF Express 4.0 cards. For all we know, the current Z9 and maybe the A1 sensors are far enough now but not the card and card slots
 
That $4k price tag does make it seem like a value, if the performance lives up to expectations. Could temporarily be the top performer for the landscape, nature, wildlife crowd and a good choice for journalists, sports, events. Wait, a top all around camera.
You're comparing apples to oranges here. I suppose anyone can take a third-tier body and claim it competes with the flagships for a fraction of the price and call it "value," but that doesn't make it so. You're conveniently ignoring all of the reasons why it is not priced at $6500, which is a whole list of features. Maybe you don't need or value those features, but many do, and that's why it's priced where it is.
 
I agree that if there is order in the world then there has to be differences in build and features between $4k cameras and $7k cameras. However above a certain level things start to get more and more nuanced and the differences might have less meaning for shooters in my category, since $4k is already leaving probably 95% of the world's cameras behind.

But yes I see and agree that when you compare feature by feature there are differences where the $7k camera earns its keep. I'm just hoping all the best rumors are true and the R5ii punches above its weight in some of the features I care more about, compared to the aging Z9 and A1.
 
For what I would like to see in the Canon R5 II, the major features seem clear to me – deliver a competitor to the Nikon Z8. A roughly $4,000. camera (the Z8 is less) with BSI stacked sensor and improved R3 autofocus. That is, improved sensor readout for AF/AE calculations and improved AI subject detection and tracking. With an optimistic reading of the rumored R5 II specs, I think that’s what we have.

From what I can see in the market, joining Nikon with a $4,000. higher resolution stacked sensor (Z8 has 45+) would be an accomplishment. Sony has the a7r V with 61MP that is under $4000 with an unstacked sensor.

So, I’m waiting for Canon to persuade me to buy an R5 II versus a Z8, ignoring the lens deficit for a moment.

When I saw the Sony a1 and the Nikon Z9, I thought the new pro, sports camera trend was to higher resolution (40/50MP vs 24+) cameras for action and wildlife. We always caveat our spec recitation with ‘these are only the rumored specs’, but wouldn’t it be a surprise if the R1 spec that turned out to be wrong was the 24MP – oh wait, it’s really 40+. Then the flagship fits right in and we can see an R3 II future. But I don’t think that will be the case. I think that I’m wrong about the market. There’s still a healthy, corporate buy demand for a 24+ MP sports action camera with all the fast response, quick turnaround shipping that such a platform provides.
 
If Canon feels their business is just fine with the low-end mass production and the sports genre on the high end, then more power to them. Makes my decision of buying gear much easier when it’s narrowed down to the other two competitors. It doesn’t do any favors to the industry, though, or putting pressure on Sony or Nikon as mobile continues to progress. Feels stale to me.
 
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