CF Express Type B Cards 4.0

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simplynature said:
Perhaps a silly or naïve question, but is the usable write speed a camera can handle something that can be changed with firmware or or it a hardware issue, e.g., can Nikon allow a Z9 to take advantage of the faster write speed by updating its firmware, or is the write speed controlled only by hardware?
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it depends on what hardware is in the z9. while there is some VERY SMALL chance the hardware in the z9 (and other cameras) has the ability to support v4 and thus could start supporting it with a firmware update, the chances of this being the case is very unlikely.
 
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BarkingBeans Coffee said:
Some very disappointing write speed results posted on DPReview for the ProGrade Gold 1TB card. .
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I have the 512Gb version of the card and it maxes out my gen 3 card reader. Here are the results of the same test he ran.

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BarkingBeans Coffee said:
Some very disappointing write speed results posted on DPReview for the ProGrade Gold 1TB card. .
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"Keep in mind these are Windows benchmarks, so take that for what it is. Although, I'm not sure the increased cost for this card is proportional to the performance." I looked at it and this quote from the poster got my attention. I do not use windows and have never done that type of bench testing not use in a camera which is the only place I care about write speed. It also seemed to be doing it at varying capacity levels on the card with signficant differences. Pretty much over my head. But one thing I know is that prograde and OWC warns that while the supplied thunderbolt usb 4.0 cables etc. work at full speed on new macs they do not yet on microsoft windows pc's
 
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jmurthy said:
View attachment 77958

this is what i am getting in my setup. prograde gold 1TB card pcie 4.0 thro prograde usb 4 card reader, connected with owc TB4 cable to M1 macbook pro
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about the speed for write that pro grade said to expect until a new camera comes out that can handle 4.0 as they said the advantage now was primarily read speed for downloads. With my 512GB they seem to be performing at the top of or a bit beyond the up to minimum sustained write speed of 1,700 MB's that my Delkin blacks. And the 1780 MB's would be the listed sustained write speed for the Delkin Black and the Prograde Gold 4.0 not used in a camera that can use 4.0. This is also as fast or faster than the Prograde Cobalt listed by Nikon and recommended by a NPS dude for the Z9.
 
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Wes Peterson said:
I have the 512Gb version of the card and it maxes out my gen 3 card reader. Here are the results of the same test he ran.

View attachment 77946
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when you see max hitting about 1000mb/s, it’s likely you are hitting a usb limit, not the card limit.

i would expect something close to 1400mb/s on a v2 system (half rated speed since v2 runs half v4 speed)

unfortunately it’s hard to benchmark with usb in the mix
 
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John Navitsky said:
when you see max hitting about 1000mb/s, it’s likely you are hitting a usb limit, not the card limit.

i would expect something close to 1400mb/s on a v2 system (half rated speed since v2 runs half v4 speed)

unfortunately it’s hard to benchmark with usb in the mix
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Yeah its for sure usb speed. I posted just to show the DPreview numbers are not typical of what Im seeing with my card.
 
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So I finally got around to doing a simple test of the speed of several CFe cards in my Z9. Put a 600 mm PF on my Z9. Wide open at f6.3. 1/1000th shutter speed. Auto ISO set ISO 8000, given the overcast day. On a tripod. Focused on a cedar fence with details. 20 fps. RAW only. No card in second slot (and second slot set to overflow). Each card quick formatted before shooting. Ambient temperature around 34F. Pressed the shutter button to see how long the camera would shoot before slowing down. Stopped shooting when the camera slowed.

I think it is possible that using 8000 ISO could slow things a bit. Seem to recall reading that somewhere.

The numbers below (other than the ones that hit my 200 frame burst cap) probably overstate it by a few frames, as I did not stop pressing the shutter button instantly. Also, the camera did not stop at this point (as long as I did not hit the 200 frame burst cap I have set), merely slowed. Did not try to estimate the fps rate after it slowed. It certainly seemed fast enough to continue to be very useful.

With Lossless compressed raw:

Delkin Black 325 gb card (not G4): 75 frames
Prograde Cobalt 325 gb card (version 2.0): 65 frames
Prograde Gold 512 gb card (version 4.0): 65 frames
Delkin Power 650 gb card (G4): 65 frames

With HE* Raw:

Delkin Black 325 gb card (not G4): 200 frames. It stopped here, as I have 200 set as the maximum burst. Never slowed.
Prograde Cobalt 325 gb card (version 2.0): 200 frames. It stopped here, as I have 200 set as the maximum burst. Never slowed.
Prograde Gold 512 gb card (version 4.0): 150 frames
Delkin Power 650 gb (G4): 148 frames


A few thoughts:

I’m sure that someone could do more scientific tests, including doing it more times and averaging results. And testing with better light and lower ISOs would be interesting.

I usually use HE* Raw for most of my wildlife shooting. The longest burst I think I have shot was somewhere around 40 frames. So any of these cards would seem to do just fine for my work shooting stills, even if I went to lossless compressed.

The new Prograde Gold 512 gb 4.0 card was not faster in my Z9 than the 2.0 cards. But it was fast enough to be perfectly useable. And the price was attractive: $179, with a possible discount at Prograde.

I did not test card temperature issues. I think that is important and I will be curious to see how that goes, especially in warmer conditions and with my Z8.

I did not test video.
 
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BillW said:
So I finally got around to doing a simple test of the speed of several CFe cards in my Z9. Put a 600 mm PF on my Z9. Wide open at f6.3. 1/1000th shutter speed. Auto ISO set ISO 8000, given the overcast day. On a tripod. Focused on a cedar fence with details. 20 fps. RAW only. No card in second slot (and second slot set to overflow). Each card quick formatted before shooting. Ambient temperature around 34F. Pressed the shutter button to see how long the camera would shoot before slowing down. Stopped shooting when the camera slowed.

I think it is possible that using 8000 ISO could slow things a bit. Seem to recall reading that somewhere.

The numbers below (other than the ones that hit my 200 frame burst cap) probably overstate it by a few frames, as I did not stop pressing the shutter button instantly. Also, the camera did not stop at this point (as long as I did not hit the 200 frame burst cap I have set), merely slowed. Did not try to estimate the fps rate after it slowed. It certainly seemed fast enough to continue to be very useful.

With Lossless compressed raw:

Delkin Black 325 gb card (not G4): 75 frames
Prograde Cobalt 325 gb card (version 2.0): 65 frames
Prograde Gold 512 gb card (version 4.0): 65 frames
Delkin Power 650 gb card (G4): 65 frames

With HE* Raw:

Delkin Black 325 gb card (not G4): 200 frames. It stopped here, as I have 200 set as the maximum burst. Never slowed.
Prograde Cobalt 325 gb card (version 2.0): 200 frames. It stopped here, as I have 200 set as the maximum burst. Never slowed.
Prograde Gold 512 gb card (version 4.0): 150 frames
Delkin Power 650 gb (G4): 148 frames


A few thoughts:

I’m sure that someone could do more scientific tests, including doing it more times and averaging results. And testing with better light and lower ISOs would be interesting.

I usually use HE* Raw for most of my wildlife shooting. The longest burst I think I have shot was somewhere around 40 frames. So any of these cards would seem to do just fine for my work shooting stills, even if I went to lossless compressed.

The new Prograde Gold 512 gb 4.0 card was not faster in my Z9 than the 2.0 cards. But it was fast enough to be perfectly useable. And the price was attractive: $179, with a possible discount at Prograde.

I did not test card temperature issues. I think that is important and I will be curious to see how that goes, especially in warmer conditions and with my Z8.

I did not test video.
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Are you sure about your number for the cobalt 325? lossless raw? it seems low to me I have the same card and get 80 something.
 
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Wes Peterson said:
Are you sure about your number for the cobalt 325? lossless raw? it seems low to me I have the same card and get 80 something.
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I did it twice, with the same results within a frame or two. I wonder if the fact I was using ISO 8000 (overcast and not bright outside) would slow things some?
 
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FWIW, I also just tried the new Prograde Gold 512 gb 4.0 cards in my Delkin CFe card reader connected to my 2019 iMac. Worked fine. It did not seem slower or faster than my other cards in the same reader and with the same computer. I did not try to test speed for this purpose. I suspect it might be faster with my 2021 Apple Silicon MBP.

I have not bought the Prograde CFe 4.0 reader yet, but probably will do so. Suspect it might work better with my MBP thanmy older iMac. Thinking about upgrading the iMac to a Studio.
 
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BillW said:
FWIW, I also just tried the new Prograde Gold 512 gb 4.0 cards in my Delkin CFe card reader connected to my 2019 iMac. Worked fine. It did not seem slower or faster than my other cards in the same reader and with the same computer. I did not try to test speed for this purpose. I suspect it might be faster with my 2021 Apple Silicon MBP.

I have not bought the Prograde CFe 4.0 reader yet, but probably will do so. Suspect it might work better with my MBP thanmy older iMac. Thinking about upgrading the iMac to a Studio.
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The prograde 4.0 reader comes with the USB 4.0 cable that requires a USB 4.0 thunderbolt port on your mac. As noted earlier I use it on a Mac Studio M1 Max. It is far faster with the prograde gold 512 CFE type b 4.0 compared to Delkin Black in the Delkin reader. No heat issues in reader or Z9's. From prograde "ProGrade Digital offers an industry-leading, high-speed workflow reader to match-up with our high-speed memory cards. The PG05.6 Single-Slot CFexpress Type B Reader utilize the new USB 4.0 interface with the capability to read CFexpress Type B memory cards at speeds up-to 40GBits per second. That type of performance means that you can download content from our CFexpress Type B cards at over 5000MB per second."
 
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The results reported by Bill W above are consistent with what I have read in other tests.

If you use either the Prograde Cobalt of Delkin Black cards and set your image to HE*RAW the cards keep up with the buffer and you can continue shooting until the card fills up.

More than any of us will actually need.
 
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wotan1 said:
The results reported by Bill W above are consistent with what I have read in other tests.

If you use either the Prograde Cobalt of Delkin Black cards and set your image to HE*RAW the cards keep up with the buffer and you can continue shooting until the card fills up.

More than any of us will actually need.
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ProGrade CFexpress™ Type B 4.0 Memory Card (Gold) 512GB is as fast as standard cobalt and delkin black in camera, faster than I actually need as yo noted. They are much faster to download and ironically they were less expensive when I got them on special with a promo code in a 2 pack. Also got lucky and got the USB 4.0 reader for half price on Amazon on a flash sale.
 
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Here are some results using the Z9 with a 1 Tb Gold ProGrade CFexpress 4.0 Memory Card.

In raw, the camera shot approx 2 seconds of 20fps before slowing down and maintaining around 13 fps till the 200 frame limit i set was reached.

In high efficiency raw I got approx 20 fps for seven seconds before the buffer slowed the frame rate to 16/17 fps
 
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Rectory Photography said:
Here are some results using the Z9 with a 1 Tb Gold ProGrade CFexpress 4.0 Memory Card. Each a single burst but limited to 200 pictures per burst in Raw.
This is frames per second..... the opening figure varies depending on where in the opening second each burst starts.

1/1250 f8: 1-20-20-18-13-13-13-14-13-13-13-13-13-13-10

1/2500 f5.6: 13-20-20-14-13-14-13-13-14-13-14-13-13-13

1/4000 f5.6: 11-20-20-16-14-13-13-13-13-13-13-14-13-13-1

Here finally is a high efficiency raw reading:

1/2000 f5.6: 16-20-20-20-20-20-18-17-16-17-16
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I stared at this for several minutes and have no idea what data this is supposed to represent.
 
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BarkingBeans Coffee said:
From the ProGrade website below, although I am skeptical that it can speed up that much on a MAC. Mac's use Thunderbolt 4 not USB4 and there are differences. Someone is going to have to test and report on these. You may be correct that the minimum speed could help things out for those going deep into the buffer while shooting.
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BarkingBeans Coffee said:
From the ProGrade website below, although I am skeptical that it can speed up that much on a MAC. Mac's use Thunderbolt 4 not USB4 and there are differences. Someone is going to have to test and report on these. You may be correct that the minimum speed could help things out for those going deep into the buffer while shooting.
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Mac studio M1 and up all support USB 4.0 in their thunderbolt ports. You have to use an appropriate cable like the one that comes with the Prograde single card USB 4.0 reader and the Prograde Gold cfe type B 4.0 the download speeds are far faster than using different type card and reader or a cable that can not support USB 4.0. more info from apple here https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/about-the-thunderbolt-ports-mh35952/mac
 
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I have compared a new 1tb type 4 gold card today against a cobalt 168gb card.

With my Z9 shooting Raw and limited to a 200 shot burst they are returning the same performance...Around 3 seconds of 20 frames per second before dropping off to a steady 13 fps until the 200 frame limit is reached.

There seems no reason not to buy the far cheaper type 4 gold cards as opposed to the cobalt..... I'm just going to put 2x 1tb cards into my Z9 and forget about it..... I won't need to carry any spare cards.
 
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