John Navitsky
Well-known member
it won’t. it’s just aiming to solve the digital manipulation issue
Cheaters Getting Caught By The Photo Police!
- Thread starter Feiertag
- Start date
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I loved the "anonymous" tip about the anteater being fake. Reminds me of the arguing couple getting pulled over by the police. As soon as the officer stepped up to the car, the wife in the passenger seat started yelling "he's got weed, he's got weed". The look on the husband's face was priceless.
I guess that photographer shouldn't enter contests when he's arguing with his spouse
I guess that photographer shouldn't enter contests when he's arguing with his spouse
There are many potential issues. But when it comes to the wolf photo - there were other photographers that recognized it and knew its name. The same would be true for animals from Triple D. There are lots of people who are expert on specific subjects or locations. And even more understand animal behavior.
I recognize not only the trees at St. Augustine Alligator Farm, but also the obese alligators they have. Captive alligators are very different from wild alligators found in Florida and Georgia. I picked out a captive alligator from a group of images submitted by a professional for a publication. He was simply providing "stock" images - but for a purpose that needed wild alligators. Healthy, well fed, wolves and mountain lions are not the same as those found in the wild. On the other hand, black bears in Minnesota can naturally look obese as they are feeding before the start of winter and will drop 65% of their body weight in the months ahead.
Rules for photo contests will continue to evolve. AI is just one topic area. Some contests ban owl photographs because of experience with baiting. Some types of photos are typically composites rather than single photos - like sports team photos where someone is commonly missing the day of the photo and added later. A well done team photo is often judged based on compositing with an even exposure and white balance for subjects captured at different times.
Eric,
Well said. Your points about well fed captive critters is on point. My wife and I lived in the mountains of rural Rappahannock County for 30 years and can attest to the pre-winter weight of black bears. This guy is obese and we did not contribute to his size. Some would question whether this bear was in a wildlife zoo or somehow PS into the scenery. It’s the real deal but certainly not contest worthy…. Those are spruce trees we planted in our back yard. Shot from the safety of our living room!
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Amen Fred! Glad you brought this up… that being “camera traps”. With Nikon’s latest Z9 4.10 firmware update ya’ get a built in camera trap. They call it “auto capture” or something like that. If I was not there and a motion detection function trips the frame, how could I take credit for the image? I could be somewhere else. This will come under scrutiny soon with the annual Virginia Wildlife Magazine Showcase. This is a once a year all photography issue and the competition to have an image published is huge. There are three categories: Wildlife, Patterns in Nature, and Trail Cameras. You are required to provide camera make & model, lens, settings and location only. That’s it. There’s a huge technology and performance gap between a Z9 and a ”screw-in-the-tree” trail camera deer hunters use. I see the new “auto capture” function as a gateway to incredible images captured not by a photographer but by technology.…. then submitted for publication as though they were shot by a photographer with his very own fingers when the moment was right.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
after seeing a lot of amazing camera trap images, i disagree about the "not by photographer" part. you can give a million monkeys a camera trap and not get images remotely as good as what good camera trappers get.
raptor photo
Well-known member
Camera trapping takes more skill than your average wildlife shot.
I do not deny the skill required to be successful with a camera trap. It takes a lot of equipment and wildlife knowledge to get quality results. Should camera trap images be considered and judged alongside and equally with those captured by the finger of the photographer? I don’t think so… This is just my opinion. If I sit in a camouflaged hide or must dress like a leafy bush to get close enough for the shot I want… I’ll do it. This also takes skills and perseverance for success, especially in challenging weather conditions.
raptor photo
Well-known member
I like the system Nature TTL POTY has right now: A specific camera trap category that is also eligible for the grand prize.
Yes, a separate category. Misrepresentation can hopefully be monitored in competitions and contests.
I don’t enter competitions…but the problem is that with digital there is zero such thing as unedited. If shot in jpg the camera settings altered the image…and if shot in RAW the data must be processed…I.e., edited…to get an output. So the whole definition of 7neditedndepends on the judges who may or may not actually understand the problem.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
there has ALWAYS been no such thing as unedited
Your doodle will be depressed if you keep up with those booties.
True…except for slides because you get what you get with that…but anything printed has always been edited.
I think we are confusing processed with edited. All images have to be processed (film and digital). The way it is processed can give different colors and contrast. Editing in this context means altering the content of the image.
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Processing by definition changes the content by reducing noise and adding sharpness or contrast or whatever. If cloning out a trash bag on the edge or removing it before the shot is wrong…then so is NR for instance…but cropping the trash out is ok? That’s nuts rules...which gets me back to why I don’t enter.
By processing I mean developing film or using a profile to convert raw data.
Jerry is correct…. Not only that, your choice of Kodachrome or Ektachrome for slides made color shifts possible… then came Fuji, et al..
Ok…but if you take the photo into LR and make any changes and output the file…the content has changed compared to the original. For instance…NR then darkening the BG and lightening the subject…then using the lens blur tool to add bokeh. That image is definitely different content just as much as cloning out the trash is when compared to the original RAW file. The problem is that ‘edited content’ is in the sole a
judgement of whoever is making the decision…and what they define as editing is completely subjective according to what they believe editing is…there are some hard and fast rules like trash cloning (but cropping would be just fine) and a lot of gray area.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
composition is editing
exposure is editing
timing the shot is editing
culling is editing
we can select tri-x or cibachrome
we can push or pull the developing
dodging and burning is editing
we can select 35mm or medium format
we can choose our lens
we don’t have to agree this is editing, but we are making choices all along the process that change the result
Anjin…. Let’s really make this a confusing enigma! Your comment …..”…using a lens blur tool to add bokeh” Okay, then any images I made with my 105mm or 135mm f/2D DC (defocus control) would be disqualified? Or the new Nikon “plena” lens? Not sure where Alice’s rabbit hole is taking us.. 
He's referring to software tools that create a similar look to a shallow DOF. It's not the same as using a fast lens, but the latest technology does simulate bokeh. Side by side you can tell the difference, but with dissimilar images and proper use of the technique, it could be difficult. A fast telephoto lens stands out so a 600mm f/4 has a unique look. But backgrounds with shapes and some level of detail (such as with a wider lens or smaller aperture) can be effectively replicated.Anjin…. Let’s really make this a confusing enigma! Your comment …..”…using a lens blur tool to add bokeh” Okay, then any images I made with my 105mm or 135mm f/2D DC (defocus control) would be disqualified? Or the new Nikon “plena” lens? Not sure where Alice’s rabbit hole is taking us..
On a different note, local dodging and burning as well as global exposure adjustments when developing and printing have been used for more than 100 years. Hand retouching was used with transparencies and prints as well as early films.
Eric, dodging, burning, and exposure all change contrast. I assume you are talking about B&W since you could not dodge or burn color film.
Now you know very well there isn't anything wrong with a rathole my friendAnjin…. Let’s really make this a confusing enigma! Your comment …..”…using a lens blur tool to add bokeh” Okay, then any images I made with my 105mm or 135mm f/2D DC (defocus control) would be disqualified? Or the new Nikon “plena” lens? Not sure where Alice’s rabbit hole is taking us..
. My point was that a rule that says "no editing" is so nebulous that it comes down to the individual quirks of the judge or judges making the decision. Some of the rules…cloning out trash vice cropping a bit for instance…are specific enough to be met by submitters (although I think that cloning trash should be allowed if cropping a bit would do the same thing, but that's me)…but the "no editing content" rule is so wide open for interpretation that any of the things I mentioned could be considered "editing the content" and therefore not allowed. It's only an esoteric discussion for me anyway since I don't enter contests…and most of my best/favorite photos have been processed to get a final image I like…and I'm fine cloning out trash or power lines or modifying the sky appropriately or blurring the BG a bit or whatever because what I'm after is the final image I like.
Dodging and burning can be done with color film although the technique is a bit different. Hand retouching was also very common with color film and transparencies at a professional level. Contrast is not exactly the same as dodging and burning or exposure adjustments. There was extensive use of masking for both creating the original exposure and for processing the film or material later. Some early photographers actually used a multiple exposure technique combined with a mask.
Color has it's own set of quirks - choice of film, temperature, age of film, etc. But color shifts were common and could be planned or created as desired.
Later processing of color transparencies involved many of the same objectives - just different methods.