Cheaters Getting Caught By The Photo Police!

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I am part of a small photo club where we are very general in subject matter, (Landscape, wildlife, portrait, abstract etc.) We struggled with how to deal with the AI editing that will take over all our software (people will demand it as it makes the process so much easier) We decided on some very general rules as one person posted we don't want to have to be a lawyer to be a photographer just to understand the restrictions and guidelines to compete. Our competitions are really focused on getting feedback to improve our images not just for an award.
Its like everything else we do today. Read the rules, decide if you want to abide by them.
 
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Feiertag said:
In regards to photo contest entries, would it be cheating if someone took a video and then extracted a single frame, to convert it into a photograph?
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Only if the rules in the specific contest prohibited extracting frames from a video.

Seems to me there's some straw man arguments in this thread regarding any and all edits being prohibited. I've entered and judged a fair number of photo contests and I've never seen a blanket rule against editing but have seen things like: prohibitions on removing or adding subjects (e.g. cloning, generative fill, etc.), excessive crops, use of AI based editing tools (just the strange rule from the NANPA contest, not a common thing), background replacements, composite images (sometimes allowed in certain photo art or astro photography categories) and the like. I've never seen a prohibition against things like exposure, contrast, white balance, shadow, highlight, black point, white point adjustments, dodging, burning, adding a vignette, modest crops, non-AI sharpening, non-AI noise reduction, etc.

IOW, I've never seen photo contests that prohibit any and all editing though they may prohibit certain things, specifically adding or removing subjects or substantial portions of the image.

Maybe there's some contests that require straight out of the camera images where all image adjustment decisions are made in advance at the time the shutter is released but I haven't seen nor entered any contests like that.
 
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Feiertag said:
Then why did you post the photos if you didn't want some negative or positive feedback? I thrive on negative critiques. It prevents me from repeating my lack of luster style. Cheers! Happy shooting.
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I posted the photos, not for evaluation, but to point out that wildlife viewing venues provide unrealistic image capture opportunities with many species confined in escape proof enclosures. The 3 examples showed “believable” surroundings. This is problematic when presenting wildlife pictures in competitions and contests. Yes, you have been negative as I tried to be positive and present this issue…
 
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Larry S. said:
I posted the photos, not for evaluation, but to point out that wildlife viewing venues provide unrealistic image capture opportunities with many species confined in escape proof enclosures. The 3 examples showed “believable” surroundings. This is problematic when presenting wildlife pictures in competitions and contests. Yes, you have been negative as I tried to be positive and present this issue…
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It's OK, I understood your point :D
 
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Larry S. said:
I posted the photos, not for evaluation, but to point out that wildlife viewing venues provide unrealistic image capture opportunities with many species confined in escape proof enclosures. The 3 examples showed “believable” surroundings. This is problematic when presenting wildlife pictures in competitions and contests. Yes, you have been negative as I tried to be positive and present this issue…
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There is a fine line between having an opinion expressing honesty and negativity.
It's all good. Have a nice day.
 
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Feiertag said:
In regards to photo contest entries, would it be cheating if someone took a video and then extracted a single frame, to convert it into a photograph?
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A very interesting point, stills form video is the future anyway, the industry is slowly building cameras and lenses to do this mainstream, it removes the traditional skill sets required in taking a perfect still shot.

Its an interesting point that will certainly be discussed by many competition organizers especially the PSA.

Taking stills from video is defiantly the way to go for wild life sports action, the Z9 when done is getting 30 mb files as an end product, this area will only expand, so i guess a ruling will be forthcoming.

Only an opinion
 
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Larry S. said:
The perfect image of a wild critter in it’s natural habitat that you spent hours or days working with can get tossed in favor of a “socialized” animal that’s approachable. Game farms and related wildlife viewing venues exacerbate the “honest image” problem that is obvious by the proximity of the animal to the photographer. It’s something that doesn’t come up frequently but certainly affects the viewer and judge’s perceptions. Maybe this doesn’t matter in the long run, just the quality and impact of the picture….. as long as all the other editing rules were followed..😒
The conundrum of this situation is this: Why and where are the differences between the U.S. based game farms and viewing venues vs. African photo safaris and Costa Rica canned wildlife tours? Probably very little…
I’ve seen an African Lion and a Land Rover displaying Florida plates in the same picture.. Named animals like “Bart the Bear” find their way into contests too. Zoos have become conservation institutions and that’s a good thing. The habitats they create for the animals have become increasingly similar and realistic to what is natural for the species displayed. …..And pictures are taken. You can get that elusive cassowary pix and avoid travel to New Guinea or Australia. Not to mention being attacked by a bird with attitude.
In 2017 my wife and I went to Costa Rica for a wildlife tour. One place we stopped had a large aviary with many interesting species of birds and butterflies. Are pictures taken here okay for contests? By rules? …probably. Ethically? ….for me? no.
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I took these three images (and many more) in a large aviary that contained a variety of birds, lizards and butterflies. These captives (not mine) can find their way into contests or competitions. Who would know?….. For some, winning is all that matters. That’s where we are. NFL Owner Al Davis famously said “Just Win Baby!” I would rather lose a contest than win by deceit. I see this old tired guy in the mirror every morning..😂
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We disqualify any camera club competition photo entries of animals or wild life creatures IF obviously found to be taken in the Zoo etc. Yes Its hard to pick or determine at times but we do our best and as judges.

We do however at club level prefer to give the benefit of doubt to the author as first prize is not exactly a sheep station.

Different story in open national competitions where 5 to 6 judges will be involved as there is in cases serious money and prestige involved.
Judges at this level have a lot of experience, its like a homicide detective versus a constable.

Once there was an entry of a bird showing a registered band on its leg, immediately the judge said they are calling for disqualification.

The author said it was taken in the wild heath area in England, it then became apparent on further research with other camera clubs that many birds are caught tagged and released for research tracking purposes in the UK ? so the entry was then accepted. The Author didn't want to clone out the ring on the leg as the entry rules prohibited this.

There are competitions with literal rules, competitions with relaxed rules and more allowances but they are spelt out in the entry forms, the point being one has the choice to enter or not enter, respecting the rules or conditions is what counts. sadly there will always be the odd smarty.

Entering competitions is not for everyone, yet its everything for some, there is no right or wrong, being happy in what you do is all that matters i guess.

Policing for cheats or entries that don't conform is always on and hard to catch at times, you can only do the best you can based on your experience.

Birds swooping down picking up a thawed bait fish floating in the water is frowned upon and subject to the rules at the time is usually disqualified or graded at a very low score.

Throwing in the air a frozen insect (ie: Dragon Fly) to have a bird snap it up mid flight is also treated the same.

Its unbelievable what people get up to at times, hence the rules need to be super clear and tight.

All sad, but some people will do just anything to win.

Only an opinion
 
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Photof2as said:
I am part of a small photo club where we are very general in subject matter, (Landscape, wildlife, portrait, abstract etc.) We struggled with how to deal with the AI editing that will take over all our software (people will demand it as it makes the process so much easier) We decided on some very general rules as one person posted we don't want to have to be a lawyer to be a photographer just to understand the restrictions and guidelines to compete. Our competitions are really focused on getting feedback to improve our images not just for an award.
Its like everything else we do today. Read the rules, decide if you want to abide by them.
Click to expand...
We are certainly in for change, we saw similar challenges when they introduced PS then LR, today it part of life even used in schools.
So Ai is i guess just another phase in that same progression.

Sometimes its better to go with the flow rather than drowning fighting or policing it.

Ai features will become normal in our cameras if not already, i mean PS LR installed in our phones is normal for editing purposes so Ai will be a exciting new adventure that will sell more phones.

Whats on our club radar is the amount of people now looking or embracing taking stills from video..........

Only opinion
 
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simonsi said:
But how is a video stream significantly different to a 30/60/120fps image stream?
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It's not except possibly in inter-frame compression. Depending on the codec, frames may not have all the info because it's the same as previouse frame. If you shoot RAW video, it's the same as holding your shutter down manually for continuous stills.
 
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Nimi said:
It's not except possibly in inter-frame compression. Depending on the codec, frames may not have all the info because it's the same as previouse frame. If you shoot RAW video, it's the same as holding your shutter down manually for continuous stills.
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Exactly, so if stills-from video becomes a competition elegibility issue then it implies high fps would also be an issue, both allow capture of images that werent explicitly taken by the photographer as a single still. I’m not arguing for or against, just that the same creativity issue occurs with both as far as I can see.
 
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simonsi said:
Exactly, so if stills-from video becomes a competition elegibility issue then it implies high fps would also be an issue, both allow capture of images that werent explicitly taken by the photographer as a single still. I’m not arguing for or against, just that the same creativity issue occurs with both as far as I can see.
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I look at this issue the same as an Olympic athlete on steroids. Everything is wonderful until he/she is forced to give a urine sample! B^)
 
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How about something like Topaz Gigapixel (or equivalent)?

I find that if I have a high quality image to start with and a subject taking up a reasonable amount of the frame, that upsizing the image may let me crop so that the subject then fills the frame more, resulting in a better image.
 
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PhotoLover said:
How about something like Topaz Gigapixel (or equivalent)?

I find that if I have a high quality image to start with and a subject taking up a reasonable amount of the frame, that upsizing the image may let me crop so that the subject then fills the frame more, resulting in a better image.
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There can be artifacts and loss of image quality if you go too deep. So quality long lenses on full frame cameras are in no danger of going obsolete. But the software is pretty amazing used in moderation. Even the things included in lightrrom/Photoshop do a remarkable job, but you have to watch for and fix artifacts sometimes. Super Resolution, Super Zoom, Preserve Details 2.0 are all good, I suspect Gigapixel might even top those.
 
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Feiertag said:
Interesting video regarding photographers who won a photo contest and then were stripped of the prize/title.

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One of the many reasons I rarely enter photo contests. Some folks feel the need for public validation of their skills and talents - I’m just not one of them. I do what I do for my own pleasure, and am motivated to improve my images simply for their and my own sake. Besides, I think the very nature of contests (perhaps unintentionally) encourages many competitive types to bend the rules to suit their own desires for recognition, especially when prize money is involved. In my mind it’s one thing to submit an image as part of a show, but quite another when for a competition - “Photographer of the _________” (fill in the blank). No thank you.
 
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Abinoone said:
One of the many reasons I rarely enter photo contests. Some folks feel the need for public validation of their skills and talents - I’m just not one of them. I do what I do for my own pleasure, and am motivated to improve my images simply for their and my own sake. Besides, I think the very nature of contests (perhaps unintentionally) encourages many competitive types to bend the rules to suit their own desires for recognition, especially when prize money is involved. In my mind it’s one thing to submit an image as part of a show, but quite another when for a competition - “Photographer of the _________” (fill in the blank). No thank you.
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^^^^ Exactly! Can’t improve on this…..👍
 
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Abinoone said:
One of the many reasons I rarely enter photo contests. Some folks feel the need for public validation of their skills and talents - I’m just not one of them. I do what I do for my own pleasure, and am motivated to improve my images simply for their and my own sake. Besides, I think the very nature of contests (perhaps unintentionally) encourages many competitive types to bend the rules to suit their own desires for recognition, especially when prize money is involved. In my mind it’s one thing to submit an image as part of a show, but quite another when for a competition - “Photographer of the _________” (fill in the blank). No thank you.
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I'm of the opposite mindset. Having my photos illustrated on TV, calendars, postcards, books, newspapers, and magazines is fun. My friends and family members also get a thrill from it.
 
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Honest question here for some of the folks who judge contests... I'm not fishing for controversy. I rules in a few contests where the original RAW file must be submitted upon request (or similar language). What if I shot the image in JPG? Could the original unedited (at least unedited outside the camera) image be submitted or would it absolutely positively have to be RAW?
 
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jeffnles1 said:
Honest question here for some of the folks who judge contests... I'm not fishing for controversy. I rules in a few contests where the original RAW file must be submitted upon request (or similar language). What if I shot the image in JPG? Could the original unedited (at least unedited outside the camera) image be submitted or would it absolutely positively have to be RAW?
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It depends on the contest rules. Some allow images shot in jpeg if no raw file exists others rely on the raw file as a check of the original unedited image and don't allow jpeg or TIFF submissions in lieu of the raw file as a check. I've seen both over the years so like all the other rules, it depends on the specific contest and its rules.

Here's the relevant entry rule for Wildlife Photographer Of The Year:

(i) RAW files (eg .ARW, .CR2/3, .NEF, .ORF, .PEF etc), or original untouched JPEGs (with a range of ‘before’ and ‘after’ original untouched JPEG files); and original transparencies or negatives, will be required for authentication. DNG files are only permitted if this is the native RAW format of the camera.
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DRwyoming said:
It depends on the contest rules. Some allow images shot in jpeg if no raw file exists others rely on the raw file as a check of the original unedited image and don't allow jpeg or TIFF submissions in lieu of the raw file as a check. I've seen both over the years so like all the other rules, it depends on the specific contest and its rules.

Here's the relevant entry rule for Wildlife Photographer Of The Year:
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Thanks.
I've entered a number of local contests and have done some custom photography work for a few local nature centers but haven't entered any of the national/global "big" contests. I shoot in RAW and JPG. If I want to edit more than superficial stuff, I will do so on the RAW file once satisfied, I keep the jpg and remove the RAW due to disk space and just rarely going back and edit old photos. I know, I'm lazy, I won't be offended if you say it...

Thanks for the perspective. It is something I was curious about.

Jeff
 
DRwyoming said:
It depends on the contest rules. Some allow images shot in jpeg if no raw file exists others rely on the raw file as a check of the original unedited image and don't allow jpeg or TIFF submissions in lieu of the raw file as a check. I've seen both over the years so like all the other rules, it depends on the specific contest and its rules.

Here's the relevant entry rule for Wildlife Photographer Of The Year:
Click to expand...

interesting about the dng for those that automatically let lightroom convert imports to dng and discard the raw.
 
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bleirer said:
interesting about the dng for those that automatically let lightroom convert imports to dng and discard the raw.
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Yup, gets back to not entering contests if your shooting or processing style doesn't meet the entry requirements but yeah that's one potential downside of doing bulk DNG conversions on import if the raw files aren't retained.
 
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