Evaluating Some Upgrade Options from Nikon 200-500

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For BIF, my two primary lens setups with my D500 were the 200-500 and an older 300mm AF-S w/1.4TC (the latter being my hand holdable combination). Now that I have a Z6III, and my wallet is unfortunately a bit slimmer, I had initially planned to try the 200-500 with the new body for another season to see if I was still unhappy with the lens being slow to acquire focus (my biggest gripe with the 200-500 when using it on my D500). But I have seen a few used lenses come up for sale that are making me reconsider and possibly make my wallet even slimmer. They are:
  • a used Z-mount 100-400
  • a used 500PF
  • a new 180-600
Considerations:
  • Now that I am shooting FF w/a 24MP sensor, I no longer have the crop factor to give me a bit more reach. Yes, I can crop a bit into the image, but the DX equiv. on the Z6III is less than 11MP.
  • If I get the 500PF, I can still use it on the D500, and most of my birding is done at 500mm. And I still have the 300mm and a 70-200 VRII as well, so I can shoot in either mount with these lenses.
  • The Z-mount 100-400 would be a good compliment to my 24-120, and give me a nice range, but it does top out at 400 unless I pick up a 1.4TC.
  • The 180-600 give me the greatest reach, but it is large and I worry that its AF acquisition speed will be similar to the 200-500, and I'd rather not continue with that if possible.
  • All three options are about the same price, and I could trade in the 200-500 to soften the blow to my wallet if need be
Any thoughts?

--Ken
 
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Ken, if you're in the USA, lensrental.com has 180-600 lenses for rent at $99 for seven days. It could be an inexpensive way to test the AF speed for yourself with your Z6III. If you like it, then find a sale or consider a Nikon refurb or open box unit from a retailer. If you don't like it, keep the lenses you have now or think about the 100-400 with a TC.

Hope my 2¢ is helpful! :)
 
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JAJohnson said:
Ken, if you're in the USA, lensrental.com has 180-600 lenses for rent at $99 for seven days. It could be an inexpensive way to test the AF speed for yourself with your Z6III. If you like it, then find a sale or consider a Nikon refurb or open box unit from a retailer. If you don't like it, keep the lenses you have now or think about the 100-400 with a TC.

Hope my 2¢ is helpful! :)
Click to expand...
I can also rent locally if it is in their rental stock, but that still leaves me with the question about the the 500PF. My preference has been to buy Z-mount lenses, but there is no exact equivalent to it in the Z mount, and the price of a used one is quite tempting given its IQ.

--Ken
 
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Cameron T said:
When you're shooting birds, you want all the reach you can get, and all the light. The 180-600 also has better IQ at the long end compared to the 100-400, and is faster than the 100-400 is with a tc to get almost the same reach.
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Good points. Like a lot of us, I would always like a bit more reach, with 600mm and under f/8 seeming to be my limits. The size of the 180-600 will limit my usage, but that is not much of an issue since it is primarily a birding lens. The real question is AF acquisition speed. Did yo ever shoot the 200-500? And if so, how does the 180-600 compare in that regard?

--Ken
 
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The 200-500 is a good lens. But not as good, I think as the 180-600. I used a 200-500 on a D7200 for a long time and was extremely happy with the results. But you have to remember that on a crop sensor camera the 500mm long end turns into an effective 750mm. So using the 200-500 will cost you that 250mm. This is probably not news to you and I apologize if I presumed otherwise.

Even with the 180-600 you'll still be 150mm short. I upgraded to a Z8 and picked up a 180-600. Compared to my old 7200 / 200-500 I can tell the difference. The upside is, in a pinch I can switch the camera to DX mode and have a 20MP 900mm combination.
 
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Captain Spaulding said:
The 200-500 is a good lens. But not as good, I think as the 180-600. I used a 200-500 on a D7200 for a long time and was extremely happy with the results. But you have to remember that on a crop sensor camera the 500mm long end turns into an effective 750mm. So using the 200-500 will cost you that 250mm. This is probably not news to you and I apologize if I presumed otherwise.

Even with the 180-600 you'll still be 150mm short. I upgraded to a Z8 and picked up a 180-600. Compared to my old 7200 / 200-500 I can tell the difference. The upside is, in a pinch I can switch the camera to DX mode and have a 20MP 900mm combination.
Click to expand...
Yeah, with the Z6iii I could get to 750mm equiv., but it would probably be at about 17-18MP, which is not too bad.

--Ken
 
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I had the 200-500mm when I still used a DSLR, and I swapped it for a 500mm PF for three reasons:
1) Better IQ on the 500mm PF.
2) Faster AF on the 500mm PF.
3) 500mm PF is much lighter and easier to hand-hold for long periods.
I now use the 500mm PF on my Z8 with good results. Half the time I also attach a TC-14E III for 700mm reach, and the lens also plays very well with the TC.

I gave the Z 180-600mm lens a lot of thought after it was launched and I decided that it wasn't going to offer any significant advantages for me over the 500mm PF with or without the TC. Like the 200-500mm, the Z 180-600mm is also a heavy lens, and I'm getting too old to hand-hold those heavy lenses for a long time when out shooting. Also, from tests that I've seen it does not look like the 180-600mm is any sharper than the 500mm PF. The Z 180-600mm lens does focus faster than the 200-500mm lens, probably as fast as the 500mm PF. So for me the most significant advantage of the 180-600mm lens over the 500mm PF is that it zooms. That is handy when one is too close to the critters for 500mm. I have had to adjust my technique somewhat with the prime lens compared to how I used the zoom lens, but I'm used to it now.

I will swap my 500mm PF for the Z 600mm PF as soon as I can manage it without wifey divorcing me. :).
 
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Replytoken said:
Yeah, with the Z6iii I could get to 750mm equiv., but it would probably be at about 17-18MP, which is not too bad.

--Ken
Click to expand...
The 24MP sensor of the Z6 yields an image of around 10 MP in DX crop mode, so I expect the Z6III will also yield around 9-10 MP in DX crop. The 46MP sensor of the Z8 in DX crop yields around 19MP.
 
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I have shot the 200-500, 500PF, and Z100-400. My go to setup in the DSLR world was the D500/D850 with the 200-500 until I graduated to the 500PF. The 200-500 hasn’t been used since. I also shoot wildlife and the attributes of the 500PF outweigh the advantages of a zoom in my opinion. When I went to mirrorless the 500PF was firmly attached to the Z9. I love the 500PF and the only reason I’m not using it is because I went to the 600PF which is the 500 only better. The Z100-400 is good, but you say you shoot everything at 500. I tried to get the 180-600 but they were so delayed I canceled and picked up the 600. But I prefer to shoot primes anyway.
I know it’s not a Z lens, but I’d strongly consider the 500PF. I think you’ll find the AF speed, IQ, and hand holding ability a step above your 200-500. And you can still use your D500. You’ll naturally need an FTZ2 to adapt to your Z6lll
 
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Rassie said:
I had the 200-500mm when I still used a DSLR, and I swapped it for a 500mm PF for three reasons:
1) Better IQ on the 500mm PF.
2) Faster AF on the 500mm PF.
3) 500mm PF is much lighter and easier to hand-hold for long periods.
I now use the 500mm PF on my Z8 with good results. Half the time I also attach a TC-14E III for 700mm reach, and the lens also plays very well with the TC.

I gave the Z 180-600mm lens a lot of thought after it was launched and I decided that it wasn't going to offer any significant advantages for me over the 500mm PF with or without the TC. Like the 200-500mm, the Z 180-600mm is also a heavy lens, and I'm getting too old to hand-hold those heavy lenses for a long time when out shooting. Also, from tests that I've seen it does not look like the 180-600mm is any sharper than the 500mm PF. The Z 180-600mm lens does focus faster than the 200-500mm lens, probably as fast as the 500mm PF. So for me the most significant advantage of the 180-600mm lens over the 500mm PF is that it zooms. That is handy when one is too close to the critters for 500mm. I have had to adjust my technique somewhat with the prime lens compared to how I used the zoom lens, but I'm used to it now.

I will swap my 500mm PF for the Z 600mm PF as soon as I can manage it without wifey divorcing me. :).
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All good points, and glad to hear about the AF speeds. And if I do end up with a 500PF, it is usable with my D500 and D750, neither of which I am quite ready to part with. Although if the Z6iii and I gel this season, then I could see letting the D500 go. And I think my wallet would divorce me before my wife would if I keep on spending like a drunken sailor.

--Ken
 
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Rassie said:
The 24MP sensor of the Z6 yields an image of around 10 MP in DX crop mode, so I expect the Z6III will also yield around 9-10 MP in DX crop. The 46MP sensor of the Z8 in DX crop yields around 19MP.
Click to expand...
I believe the Z6iii in DX mode is 10.6 MP in DX mode. And I estimated it would yield approximately 17-18 MP to get a 750 equiv. with a 500mm lens attached.

--Ken
 
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Fishboy1952 said:
I have shot the 200-500, 500PF, and Z100-400. My go to setup in the DSLR world was the D500/D850 with the 200-500 until I graduated to the 500PF. The 200-500 hasn’t been used since. I also shoot wildlife and the attributes of the 500PF outweigh the advantages of a zoom in my opinion. When I went to mirrorless the 500PF was firmly attached to the Z9. I love the 500PF and the only reason I’m not using it is because I went to the 600PF which is the 500 only better. The Z100-400 is good, but you say you shoot everything at 500. I tried to get the 180-600 but they were so delayed I canceled and picked up the 600. But I prefer to shoot primes anyway.
I know it’s not a Z lens, but I’d strongly consider the 500PF. I think you’ll find the AF speed, IQ, and hand holding ability a step above your 200-500. And you can still use your D500. You’ll naturally need an FTZ2 to adapt to your Z6lll
Click to expand...
Given the price of used 500pf's is now under $2k USD, it is hard to find anything other than the 180-600 (or the used 100-400) to give me reach with reasonable IQ and within my budget. And the 500PF is one of the few F-mount lenses that a lot of people are using with an adapter. True, there is the 600 PF, and I know it is great, but new it is over twice the cost of a used 500 PF, and my budget is just not up to that kind of hit right now.

--Ken
 
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180-600 is a really nice lens and definitely snappier than the 200-500. It’s always nice to avoid an adapter and an internal zoom is far more user friendly. A third of a stop slower isn’t awesome but it’s not terrible either. In my opinion, it’s the slam dunk option.

I do mostly birds as well and my 100-400 has about an inch of dust on it. Amazing lens but just not enough reach.

The 500PF was one of my all time favorite lenses on my D500 but if you’re slowly transitioning to mirrorless, why pick up more DSLR kit? And a fixed focal length is obviously limiting.

I’d sell off the DSLR kit to fund the 180-600 so you’re not much more out of pocket. That gives you just one body and one lens but it’s a pretty flexible rig and your wallet doesn’t get much slimmer. As the wallet replenishes, you can start to build up the kit again with a standard zoom, etc.

Just more two cents for you 🙂

Cheers!
 
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My 500PF is as sharp as my 300 2.8VR (actually...so is my "new" 200-400VR...guess I am lucky) and that is saying something. I love it for birds and it's crazy portable, so if you have other zoom options it's a great lens. Of course I am not a Z shooter, so I am worthless for that side of things.
 
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Replytoken said:
For BIF, my two primary lens setups with my D500 were the 200-500 and an older 300mm AF-S w/1.4TC (the latter being my hand holdable combination). Now that I have a Z6III, and my wallet is unfortunately a bit slimmer, I had initially planned to try the 200-500 with the new body for another season to see if I was still unhappy with the lens being slow to acquire focus (my biggest gripe with the 200-500 when using it on my D500). But I have seen a few used lenses come up for sale that are making me reconsider and possibly make my wallet even slimmer. They are:
  • a used Z-mount 100-400
  • a used 500PF
  • a new 180-600
Considerations:
  • Now that I am shooting FF w/a 24MP sensor, I no longer have the crop factor to give me a bit more reach. Yes, I can crop a bit into the image, but the DX equiv. on the Z6III is less than 11MP.
  • If I get the 500PF, I can still use it on the D500, and most of my birding is done at 500mm. And I still have the 300mm and a 70-200 VRII as well, so I can shoot in either mount with these lenses.
  • The Z-mount 100-400 would be a good compliment to my 24-120, and give me a nice range, but it does top out at 400 unless I pick up a 1.4TC.
  • The 180-600 give me the greatest reach, but it is large and I worry that its AF acquisition speed will be similar to the 200-500, and I'd rather not continue with that if possible.
  • All three options are about the same price, and I could trade in the 200-500 to soften the blow to my wallet if need be
Any thoughts?

--Ken
Click to expand...
The 180-600 is great if you want a one lens/body solution…but for me 2x Z8 and the 100-400/600PF are optimum. For screen output and medium sized prints…the 180-600 is really, really hard to beat. IQ wise the 100-400 is better and the close MFD provides better closeup ability…but I don’t carry the 180-600 and 600PF together unless I’m not straying far from the car…too much writ.
 
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armchicago said:
180-600 is a really nice lens and definitely snappier than the 200-500. It’s always nice to avoid an adapter and an internal zoom is far more user friendly. A third of a stop slower isn’t awesome but it’s not terrible either. In my opinion, it’s the slam dunk option.

I do mostly birds as well and my 100-400 has about an inch of dust on it. Amazing lens but just not enough reach.

The 500PF was one of my all time favorite lenses on my D500 but if you’re slowly transitioning to mirrorless, why pick up more DSLR kit? And a fixed focal length is obviously limiting.

I’d sell off the DSLR kit to fund the 180-600 so you’re not much more out of pocket. That gives you just one body and one lens but it’s a pretty flexible rig and your wallet doesn’t get much slimmer. As the wallet replenishes, you can start to build up the kit again with a standard zoom, etc.

Just more two cents for you 🙂

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Not quite ready to sell off my F-mount bodies and lenses, and I did initially think that I would only buy Z-mount lenses for my Z bodies, but the 500PF is a bit of an outlier. Not saying that I would buy it over the 180-600, but it is one of the F-mount lenses I would still consider, especially at a used price.

--Ken
 
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I often use my 500 PF on the Z9 and D6. It's one of the best telephotos ever made, and the Z Telephotos are as excellent but they definitely haven't eclipsed the 500 PF ;)

I agree with @Rassie and many others who endorse this light prime, especially as you're keeping your DSLRs.

The Z-mount only 400 f4.5S and 600 PF are in the same niche zone:- They pair well with TC's, being so sharp and light with pleasing bokeh... BUT cost more. With the 500 PF, this 400/500/600 triad are Nikon's Commando Kit primes. Unique solutions for wildlife photography and similar genres, especially if the other options are too heavy.

The long awaited 180-600 has replaced the worthy 200-500. It's more versatile but at least 3/4 kg heavier than any of the triad of Commando-Kit primes.

Detailed comparisons of Nikkor Telephotos

For Z system, including a few F Nikkors - synopsis of Thom Hogan's detailed testing to identify the 'Best Telephoto Options in the Z Mount' : https://www.zsystemuser.com/z-mount-lenses/nikkor-lenses/z-mount-lens-articles/best-telephoto-options-in.html Table added:
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com
 
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I also have a 100-400 S, which is as good as the reviews attest, but I don't pair it with a ZTC14.
It's excellent for its versatility, video too, and the close MFD is most useful for close ups, although the 70-180 f2.8 is lighter for hiking in this role.
 
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