I honestly think it’s easier to manage than the 200-600mm. I think it’s the engineering of the balance point that helps. I still use my 200-600 very often but honestly find the prime just as manageable handheld as the zoom.
Exploring 600mm Lens
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Mommacat
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The more I use this, I see what you mean @sh1209. I still can't believe how much I'm enjoying this! I really like the 1.4x with it and have to say that the 2.0x is much better than I thought although I would likely want good lighting and would use a monopod/tripod with the 2.0x. Thank you again, @sh1209 and everyone!
Really nice. I haven't used the 600mm GM all that much but I do own the Z 600mm TC and the 400TC before that. The integrated TC is the single reason why I jumped ship from Canon to Nikon. Being able to switch between 600/840 with a flick of your finger really makes a difference when you're out in the field. Granted I don't shoot birds all the much but I would image the end result in terms of ease of use is the same. Here's a couple of examples of the Z 600mm with the TC engaged (840mm).
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Mommacat
Active member
Great, @robert_in_ca! Thank you for sharing those! Yes, in my case being able to quickly switch from 600 to 840 would also be ideal. That said, I really really enjoy the A1 and 600 GM. Also, I've used the A1 for 2.5 years now so I'm familiar with the system. I'm thinking I'll need to rent Z9 or Z8 with the 600 TC but that will run over $1k. The rentals really add up but I'm trying to remind myself they are worth it.
. Thank you again for sharing!Mommacat
Active member
Is there a way to set up blinkies/ zebras on the z9 similar to the A1? Thank you!
No there isn’t, at least whenever I owned the Z9
maxxus46
Well-known member
I recently went through the same struggle as yourself. I have shot mainly Sony, in fact it was the A1 and 200-600G combo for the last 2.5 years. I grew tired of Sonys lack of firmware support for their Flagship, and the 200-600 wasnt all that great, sharp enough? For some yes...but AF aquisition left a lot of room for improvement (AF motors in thia lens aren't very quick or accurate). That said, Sonys 300GM was released and although very sharp even with 1.4TC, I found the 2x TC which I required 90% of the time (for Max 600mm reach ) reduced IQ to where it was now closer to the 200-600 than the 600F4GM. For the cost of $6k plus cost of converters, it didn't make a lot of sense to me for birding. I also did not want to carry or spend $13k for the big and heavy 600F GM.
So I ended up selling off the A1 and moving to the Z8 with 600pf prime for a light kit, not a zoom. It's been a few months now, but I will say I do not miss the Sony kit...for me the Z8+600pf is exactly what I wanted from the start. Auto focus on the latest Z8 firmware seems to be on par with my A1 (which was on latest FW 2.01 when sold). I do find the bird detection superior on the Z8 though, which is interesting considering cost delta between the bodies. More importantly, I find the 600pf vastly superior to the 200+600 and 300GM +2xTC>. 600pf is still sharper and I find AF is still slightly more responsive when comparing to 300+2xTC. I am happy with my choice and no desire to go back. Take care
So I ended up selling off the A1 and moving to the Z8 with 600pf prime for a light kit, not a zoom. It's been a few months now, but I will say I do not miss the Sony kit...for me the Z8+600pf is exactly what I wanted from the start. Auto focus on the latest Z8 firmware seems to be on par with my A1 (which was on latest FW 2.01 when sold). I do find the bird detection superior on the Z8 though, which is interesting considering cost delta between the bodies. More importantly, I find the 600pf vastly superior to the 200+600 and 300GM +2xTC>. 600pf is still sharper and I find AF is still slightly more responsive when comparing to 300+2xTC. I am happy with my choice and no desire to go back. Take care
Mommacat
Active member
Thank you so much, @maxxus46! Definitely sounds similar in regards to the A1 with 200-600 and how purchasing the 300mm GM would require the 2x tele. Right now, I'm ready for a 600mm f4 and understand the cons regarding price and weight. I also need more than 600mm so the 300mm GM is a no-go for me.
I have had the z9 for 5 days and am impressed! I am guessing this is the same as your z8. I agree, the AF is more reliable and stickier on the z9 vs the A1 at least in the Nikon rental and my A1 with a Sony 600mm GM rental. The auto AF is fantastic and I agree the bird eye recognition is also great. I realize everyone is different, but I was expecting it would be "sub-par" but it is top notch. It was tough paying for another rental but so glad I did. Well worth it!
Also, the Nikon 600mm TC is a game-changer! That is so useful for what I do. Like you, I am a birder, and much of what I do is documentation in addition to art. Being able to get to 840mm with a flick of a switch helps with IDs, documenting behaviors, and producing views that 600mm can't.
What I'm struggling a bit with is nailing my exposure. I love Sony's "blinkies/zebras" and those have really helped remind me that I need to adjust my exposure comp. I'm hoping someone could help me with that. If the only option is viewing the histogram, that slows things down which isn't ideal when you're constantly changing exp comp like I do.
Thanks again, @maxxus46! Enjoy your z8 and 600mm PF! Take care!
See the thread below. It requires using a custom picture control in which Tone 0 is set to white and Tone 255 is set to black. Since the picture controls modify the jpeg in the EVF, it’s not possible to make the tones blink.
There are two options which have been available, I believe. One from Tom Hogan (see post #22 in the thread) and one from @Horshack (see post #33 in the thread).
Solution to see Overexposed Highlights in a Nikon Z EVF
This might have been shared here previously, but worth a refresh in any case. Here's a neat solution using a custom Picture Control file, which was shared on dpr close to 2 years ago. It should work on any Zed camera, and obviously will show if a blinky(ies) rears its head when shooting RAW For...
bcgforums.com
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maxxus46
Well-known member
Hi there. Totally understand where your coming from regarding zebras. That's the one feature I wouldn't mind having, but can live without it as I am also used to monitoring the histogram (in my viewfinder ). I am going to try the custom picture control option noted in this thread. Otherwise I can live without the Zebras feature, but I can also see how it would be missed by Sony users. Good luck with your decision , take care
arbitrage
Well-known member
One of my biggest issues with the Z9 (owned it twice) and Z8 (borrowed it once) was judging exposure in the EVF. This is not because I didn't have my zebras I'm so used to on Sony. It is just a poor EVF for judging exposure. It is an excellent EVF experience for panning and tracking BIF while actively firing shots because of the dual-stream way Nikon feeds the EVF...but it is not good at all for exposure simulation. I was shooting the R5II yesterday and it also doesn't have zebras in stills but it was simple to nail the exposure with the Canon EVF. Way better EVF than the Nikon and the tracking BIF/panning view is as smooth as the Nikon but at higher resolution. Huge improvement even over the R3 which has a faster scanning sensor than the R5II and yet Canon must have figured out a better way to feed the EVF than they did on the R3 (of course the original R5 is way behind all of these).
Having read through all your trials on here I think you are set on the Nikon and the 600TC ticks the box for you. If you were okay not having 800mm then I'd say give the 300GM a try. I have only shot my 600GM once since getting the 300GM. But I do have many use cases for 300 and 420 so it is not only a 600mm lens for me. Checking my LR catalog it seems I've used it 50% at 600mm, 25% at 300mm and 25% at 420mm. Someone sent me a PM asking about 300GM vs 600GM and which I would buy if I couldn't only own one...I'm having a hard time answering that and right now I actually think I'd go for the 300GM and the TCs....can't believe I'm saying that as I've never liked Sony TCs on the other Sony lenses I've owned (600GM and 400GM). Actually my dream lens from Sony would be a new version of the 400GM that takes the TCs as good as the 300GM or even better yet has a built-in 1.4TC so all it has to do is take the external 1.4TC well and I'd be at 784 f/5.6 when needed. But I only use 800mm sparingly....I concentrate on action photography and BIF...still birds are my backup interest when nothing interesting is happening. I find for action/BIF, going above 600mm is a fools game most of the time. Diminishing returns vs cropping at 600mm....and no, I'm not even close to filling frame with 600mm most of the time....could easily compose at 800mm and still would have to crop a lot of the time but you miss framing with BIF at 800mm and therefore you often miss the one killer frame in a sequence.
I will say that in the end you just have to go with what feels right for you. All the cameras are excellent these days. All of them can get you 95% of the shots. If you aren't doing BIF then there is no real reason to pick one over the other for the camera....pick the lens. If you truly want world leading static bird subject detection/eye-af then the Canon system is top of the game...no question. If you are doing BIF and especially challenging BIF then I still think there is bigger differentiation between the systems for AF. But that only matters to some like myself and it is why I'm forgoing my dream lenses from Nikon and sticking with Sony.
If you are going to go Nikon 600TC then I'd seriously consider getting the Z8 over the Z9. The weight savings is significant as the Z9 is obnoxiously heavy. Nikon needs to learn from Canon how to make a reasonable weight gripped camera.
maxxus46
Well-known member
Geoff, I found the 300GM with 2x TC not nearly as sharp as a native 600... It was closer to the 200-600G lense. Why would one spend $6k plus the cost of converters for a lens that really should be run at 300mm for maximum return on investment? It didn't make sense to me, even though I wanted a lightweight, 600mm mid aperture option that was not a zoom, was sharp and had fast AF aquisition. I found that exact lens in the Nikkor 600pf, so I switched (sold my A1) and haven't looked back. I guess what matters is what one is used to , due to muscle memory etc... as there is a learning curve when switching systems. Each individual has to decide on what works for them. No two photographers will agree on different systems, and have quite different requirements. Zebras may work well for you and not for someone else (I find them distracting but that is me). I also do not have issues with exposure while tracking BIF with the Z8 at all, regardless of missing zebras. I have learned to rely on the histogram and it has not been a problem at all. Each of us has their personal opiniona gathered from our hands on experience. I will also state that the size of the Z8 is about perfect, where I found the Sony A1 body too small, lacking grip area especially if wearing gloves as I do in winters around here. I also ran the battery Grip on the A1 with the 200-600 for balance, as the body by itself was simply too small and light to ispire confidence. So, What works for you will not necessarily work for someone else . Later
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arbitrage
Well-known member
Yeah, your experience with the 300/2x does sound a good bit different than mine and my two friends who also have the 300. All three of us also own the 600GM. All three of us used to own the 200-600 and all three of us have sold that off at different times in the past. All of us have been very impressed with the 300/2x. One of my friends is maybe a bit less picky/demanding of ultimate IQ/AF as I and my other friend are. Myself and my one friend are really critical of the Sony TC IQ. Neither of us uses the 2x on our 600 and 400GMs and don’t even really like the 1.4x on those two lenses. We mostly shoot them bare lens. Myself the least likely to use any TC on the 600 or 400.
But all of us our happy to use the 2x on the 300GM. The 600GM will focus faster and IQ is better but so far the 300/2x hasn’t held me back from shooting very sharp images of very challenging BIF. The 200-600 suffers from slow AF and inconsistent AF whereas the 300/2x doesn’t suffer like that.
My plan was to buy a Z8 and 600PF as I didn’t have any hope that the 300GM would be good with the 2x. Luckily my friend bought it day one and let me shoot it as otherwise I would never have given it the time of day. It was a strange string of events…I borrow my friend’s Z8/400/4.5 to test Z8 on latest FW and a short time after I get to try the 300GM with the TCs. The Z8 disappointed me just like my two affairs with the Z9 had previously and the 300/2x blew me away. I still think for a 600mm lens the 600PF must be better than the 300/2x but I’m using the 300 at 600 only 50% of the time so that makes it a better choice for me.
As far as exposure on the Z8/9 the histogram can work if the white areas at risk of clipping are large enough in the frame. But for something like the neck band of a Belted KF it won’t show clipping for such a small area of white. I don’t see others complaining about the Z8/9 EVF so I’m certainly on my own not liking it.
The only MILC I'm okay using without a battery grip is the Z8. I can't be comfortable shooting the R5/R5II or any Sony camera without the BG. I wish all cameras were built within the R3 body but with Sony's button/wheel layout.
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Mommacat
Active member
Thank you so much for sharing this, @JAJohnson! Extremely helpful! Def better than histogram. I had to return the rental today so need to review pics. I think it ran a little hot; in other words, I think I could have used less exp comp for many overexposed highlights but I could be wrong.
IMO, overall the blinkies of the Sony seem very true. Also, as a birder, the Sony EVF is more pleasing; it's almost real. But ... The z9 EVF is good and gets the job done. It's the 600mm TC lens I'm in love with and the AF in the z9.
IMO, overall the blinkies of the Sony seem very true. Also, as a birder, the Sony EVF is more pleasing; it's almost real. But ... The z9 EVF is good and gets the job done. It's the 600mm TC lens I'm in love with and the AF in the z9.
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ricardo00
Well-known member
Not sure it is me (or my browser), but don't see your pics?
I’m glad it was helpful and I hope your photos came out well. Regarding the EVF, if the EVF in the Z6III is any indication, the Z9II EVF will be outstanding. It’s probably more than a year away, though.
Mommacat
Active member
I still meed to go through pics. I will share some eventually but sadly we had gray and more gray and drizzle almost the entire time I had the Nikon rental. The day we had decent lighting, my kids were leaving, had left, or weren't "playing". The Sony rental had beautiful lighting almost the entire time and that's mostly a rarity in our parts.
That’s a sign! Sony will give you better weather than NikonI still meed to go through pics. I will share some eventually but sadly we had gray and more gray and drizzle almost the entire time I had the Nikon rental. The day we had decent lighting, my kids were leaving, had left, or weren't "playing". The Sony rental had beautiful lighting almost the entire time and that's mostly a rarity in our parts.
Mommacat
Active member
Here are some fun views with the Nikon Z9 + 600mm TC at 840mm. There was a story behind these images and because I was able to be at 840mm almost instantaneously, I was able to capture some interesting memories. 2 fledges from one family were playing chase high in the air with 1 fledge from another family. They squealed with delight and had the best time just being "kids". The 1 chick returned to a mast and the other 2 continued to play. The sibling of the mast percher, made amazing "flippies" in the distance just showing how fun it was to be an Osprey as she continued to "play" with the other fledgling. I know these aren't detailed, and it was a very gray day, but it was the story I was able to capture. I love images that make you think about the story in addition to the beauty. Hope that makes sense.
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Mommacat
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The AF on the Z9 blew me away with these. I usually have to focus on my primary "friend" because inevitably when I try to photograph another friend then that's when the other does something interesting or takes off. . Since I had this rental, I was definitely trying to photograph "everything". This little King Fisher blew out from between some sailboats for about 3 seconds. I quickly put up the camera and began photographing. Honestly, I didn't expect the AF to pick up a gray bird in gray water, but my word ... IT DID! I was at 600mm (but wished I had been at 840mm), but it was amazing. This was just in Auto Area AF. Remarkable! Again, this was one of our gray days, and I know there isn't a lot of detail, but this shows the fun these little fishers have and their grandiose splashes. Hope you enjoy!
. Since I had this rental, I was definitely trying to photograph "everything". This little King Fisher blew out from between some sailboats for about 3 seconds. I quickly put up the camera and began photographing. Honestly, I didn't expect the AF to pick up a gray bird in gray water, but my word ... IT DID! I was at 600mm (but wished I had been at 840mm), but it was amazing. This was just in Auto Area AF. Remarkable! Again, this was one of our gray days, and I know there isn't a lot of detail, but this shows the fun these little fishers have and their grandiose splashes. Hope you enjoy!Attachments
Mommacat
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Mommacat
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Another story on another gray day. This fledgling continued to hone his fishing skills even while the crew was out honing their rowing skills. Take a look at the one girl who clearly enjoyed watching the fledge while she rowed. I so wish it had been better lighting, but it captured the moment. Taken at 840mm at f5.6. This one is not heavily cropped. Hope you found this fun.
Thank you all for your support and advice!
Thank you all for your support and advice!
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Mommacat
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Thank you so much, @JAJohnson!
Mommacat
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Early morning views in better lighting. These are not heavily cropped. Amazing how you can track a bird "over" filling the frame at 600mm with the Nikon 600mm TC! I wish I had more time with it in better lighting, but the morning sun appeared on the last day. I think the combo did great! Amazing setup!
