Gimbal head - Balance/position changed with new camera/lens (need advice)

[KurtH]

When we take off on a hike (mustangs on Salt Riverin AZ), my wife usually carries case over her shoulder, while I have my backpack with two bodies and three lenses.

Sorry for going off topic, but where along the salt river do you guys go for the Mustangs? Another thread on this forum says that's a no-no to ask or tell your secret spots so I'll understand if you don't want to cough up the goods

 

[wotan1]

I have the exact same camera and lens but with the Wimberly 200 gimbal head. Mine works no problem, there is sufficient clearance. I do run the gimbal vertical on the left side.

 

[KurtH]

I have the exact same camera and lens but with the Wimberly 200 gimbal head. Mine works no problem, there is sufficient clearance. I do run the gimbal vertical on the left side.

Hi Wotan1, thanks. Z9/600pf? Any way you can take a quick snap of the clearance between the bottom front edge of the camera and the gimbal when its fully balanced?

 

[wotan1]

I can do that tomorrow.

 

[LL4D500]

And more expensive. The ball head and adaptor plate are around $350, then add the ball-to-gimbal side mound and we're talking about $550. Verses an all in one Wimberley side mount gimbal head for $450 (or cheaper knockoff for less).

I think I'm still opting for the MVH500 with the Kirk plate as it allows me much more versatility, less swapping heads, etc. And I can dump all my other heads that have different mounts and stick with the arca-swiss plate for everything.

I only have 3 tripods, tried to keep 2 fitted for purpose and one spare. I can go down to 2 tripods and use this setup for pretty much everything I use it for. This helps simplify my life too

Thanks again for the info, ideas, pictures, etc!

Probably showing my ignorance, but here goes! I have the two pieces totaling $350. On my Gitzo XL tripod I have a leveling head, rather than a ball and gimbal. Don’t remember the cost for that, but it is multi purpose for any head or gimbal I would put on it. Allows me to level Manfrotto base and have tilt/pan capability, in my opinion, as good as a gimbal. Encourage you to go to Hudson’s web site to watch video where he shows setup and demonstrates. With longer plate/rail, it also addresses balance issue with Z9 body and long/light weight lenses.

 

[wotan1]

I have the pictures but have to resize them for the forum, will get to that later today as I have appointments.

I confirmed again that I have plenty of clearance using the wiimberly 200 with the Z9 and z 600mm pf lens. I am using the Kirk replacement foot instead of the stock. I also have a skin on the lens but it works the same with or without the skin. Lens hood is mounted in the operating position.

I mount the camera with the gimbal vertical to the left and operate the camera controls with my right hand.

 

[wotan1]

These photos are taken from my cell phone and are not the best photography but I think they show the basic layout..

Camera is Z9, tripod is a Gitzo 3 series, gimbal is Wimberley 200 new model, camera is Z9 and lens is the z 600mm pf. I also am using the Kirk substitute lens foot which works with arca swiss.

I should mention I also used this setup in a similar way with the Gitzo fluid gimbal head. I had the vertical oriented to the left as in this picture and that worked fine as well.

The camera and lens are perfectly balanced, the pan and swing knobs on the gimbal are completely loose as is the lens ring control knob.

 

[Calson]

I have used the Sidekick with lighter lenses weighing less than 4 lbs as it puts a leverage loading on the ball head. For heavy lenses I switched to the Gitzo dampened gimbal head and overall I prefer it any any other gimbal head. Much easier to fine tune the amount of drag with this gimbal head.

For video a smooth panning head is critical and so I added a Sachtler ACE XL head and a Robus RC-5570 tripod (highly recommend) with a 75mm bowl. The only drawback is needing to use wide plates or a special adapter with Arca-Swiss plates.

With heavy lenses I always us a long lens plate that provide a long base to balance the weight of the lens with or without teleconverts and a camera. Neither the factory feet or the third party feet are long enough.

 

[sportmaster]

Thanks for the info! Are these the adaptors you're talking about? Thats the MVH500AH. It swivels like a gimbal head?

View attachment 76251 View attachment 76252

Me too!

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

ProMediaGear option

 

[KurtH]

These photos are taken from my cell phone and are not the best photography but I think they show the basic layout..

Camera is Z9, tripod is a Gitzo 3 series, gimbal is Wimberley 200 new model, camera is Z9 and lens is the z 600mm pf. I also am using the Kirk substitute lens foot which works with arca swiss.

I should mention I also used this setup in a similar way with the Gitzo fluid gimbal head. I had the vertical oriented to the left as in this picture and that worked fine as well.

The camera and lens are perfectly balanced, the pan and swing knobs on the gimbal are completely loose as is the lens ring control knob.

Thanks so much for posting the pics, exactly what I was looking for! My big fat knuckles need some room in there between the camera and head. Now it's just a matter of finding the parts of the whole I want to use to accomplish this same functionality.

 

[Woodpecker]

I'd try the suggestion above to put the upright arm on the gimbal on the left.

If that doesn't work and you find yourself in the market for a new action head you might consider the Flexshooter Mini which works a lot like a gimbal head and avoids ball head flop but doesn't require the same kind of fine balancing act as a full gimbal.

Yup, agree !
I used to have a Benro Gimbal and used it with its adjustments on the left, which worked fine.
Since about 2,5 years I am using a Flexshooter and I prefer this very much over the Gimbal for what I do. And it's also very light and compact if it comes to maneuvering around with the tripod (being it packed on the side of the backpack, folded together with the camery on top for walking with it over your shoulder or set up for shooting and you have to change position and/or siting in a tight hide).

I actually loved having my gripped D850 and D4s in the F-Mount days, partly because they were a bit more bulky and heyvy and tended to balance better with big front heavy glass. But nowadays, with even the big glass getting lighter I am glad that I listened to my friend end got a Z8 instead of the Z9, otherwise I might have the same problem. The only thing I deeply miss is the battery life I got with the EN-EL18 on DSLR's .

 

[KurtH]

ProMediaGear option

Hello Mr. Beans, thank you for the link! Still pouring through the suggestions that all you kind folk have provided. I reviewed the ProMeida link that you posted and one of only 7 reviews on B&H mentions an issue with it using the Z9:

Well made; doesn't fit camera with battery grip​

I like ProMedia gear but this model doesn't work with a camera that has a battery grip and a lens foot that is close to the camera. In my case a Z9 with Z100-400. The base prevents the camera from pointing up as it hits the grip.​

I'm poking around to see if I can find that same frame type in a larger formfactor.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

Hello Mr. Beans, thank you for the link! Still pouring through the suggestions that all you kind folk have provided. I reviewed the ProMeida link that you posted and one of only 7 reviews on B&H mentions an issue with it using the Z9:

Well made; doesn't fit camera with battery grip​

I like ProMedia gear but this model doesn't work with a camera that has a battery grip and a lens foot that is close to the camera. In my case a Z9 with Z100-400. The base prevents the camera from pointing up as it hits the grip.​

I'm poking around to see if I can find that same frame type in a larger formfactor.

Well that doesn't work so well then. Maybe if you add a bottom plate you get the clearance. They might be able to tell you.

 

[GG1]

From the photos you showed in my humble none expert opinion I think it's maybe your gimbal. I have a gimbal made by Nest. I can slide the shoe assembly vertically when my balanced D850 / Tamron 150-600 set up, I can tilt it straight up.

 

[KurtH]

From the photos you showed in my humble none expert opinion I think it's maybe your gimbal. I have a gimbal made by Nest. I can slide the shoe assembly vertically when my balanced D850 / Tamron 150-600 set up, I can tilt it straight up.

Hi GG1, thanks for the info! It is absolutely that specific gimbal paired with my camera/lens combo. That Oben gimbal worked fine for a Z7ii with a Sigma 60-600 but when I upgraded to the Z9 and 600pf, the new weight distribution (heavy camera, light lens) forced me to push the rig forward if I wanted to keep it balanced (which I do).

With that said, my issue isn't the tilt range. Rather, it's the gap (or lack of) between the camera and gimbal to fit my hand in there when the camera and gimbal are balanced. As you can see in the picture, the vertical adjustment knob facing backwards is part of the problem. Some of the solutions put forward in this thread have been different gimbals, fluid heads with adaptor plates, ball heads with side mounts, etc. All good solutions for what I do. Now it's figuring out what's best for me and my uses (birds in flight, etc.), and then which parts to use.

As with all the other ideas people have put forward in this thread, I will definitely look at the Nest gimbal you suggested. Much appreciated!

 

[Ken Miracle]

How does it avoid the ball head flop? It looks like it functions like a ball head, tightening, etc.

The amount of movement is fully and easily adjustable from very loose to full lock.

 

[DRwyoming]

How does it avoid the ball head flop? It looks like it functions like a ball head, tightening, etc.

Sorry, just saw this post now.

The Flexshooter Pro or Mini look a lot like ball heads but they work like gimbal or pan tilt heads. They cannot flop sideways the way a ball head can, they're restrained to motion only in the pan and tilt directions. You can loosen the outer leveling ball and get the head to tilt side to side but once that outer ball is locked the inner ball cannot flop side to side. I haven't taken one apart but I suspect that inner ball has a slot in its underside with some kind of post or peg from the outer leveling ball up into the slot. That's at least how it behaves in that you can pan and tilt freely with only the friction set by the friction control once it's unlocked but you cannot make it flop side to side once the outer leveling ball is locked.

A true gimbal relies on balancing the whole rig in the fore aft direction and uses what is basically a pendulum motion to help keep things tilted to whatever angle you set the rig assuming it remains well balanced. The Flexshooter heads obviously have the weight above the center of rotation but use a spring under the inner ball to provide some friction that holds the lens tilted at the angle you set it as long as it's reasonably well balanced but it doesn't require quite the precise balancing of an actual gimbal.

 

[Griffym]

or you could get this type

View attachment 76232

The sidemount style is well worth considering. It is a bit harder to attach a lens on to but the system has worked very nicely for my longer lenses.