How do you get two birds in focus at one time?

[Kathy#1]

This image is of two Tree Swallows courting. I would like to know how to get both birds in focus at one time. I have a Nikon Z9 with the 180 - 600mm Z lens on it. The camera is new to me. I have used Steve Perry's wildlife set up. I seem to photograph small birds so the crop is big. I shoot in raw and did use Lightroom to adjust and denoise. Thank you for your help.

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[MrFotoFool]

First option is to use a small aperture such as f16. That is assuming you have enough light to do this. Sometimes it works and sometimes it is still not enough.

Second option is to take two shots in quick succession, with each shot focused on a different bird. Then take the sharp bird from each photo and combine them in software.

 

[Butlerkid]

First, make sure the camera's sensor plane is perfectly parallel to the 2 birds. In this case, it appears the bird on the right is further away from the camera than the bird on the left. The subjects need to be the same distance to the camera. THEN you can adjust the aperture to allow for the needed DOF.

 

[Callie]

Take a photo of each bird and merge it. Shoot fast between shifting between birds.
You can focus on the wire or branch between them, that can also render both in focus.

 

[MikeJ]

Second option is to take two shots in quick succession, with each shot focused on a different bird. Then take the sharp bird from each photo and combine them in software.

Take a photo of each bird and merge it. Shoot fast between shifting between birds.

Didn't @Steve do a video on this?

Edit: found it!

Game Changer: Keep Multiple Animals Sharp At The Same Time - Backcountry Gallery

Have you ever run into a situation where you had multiple animals in the frame and just couldn’t find a way to keep them all sharp at the same time – even when you stopped down? This is actually a really common problem for close and mid-range shots of small to medium-sized wildlife. In fact, […]

backcountrygallery.com

 

[BlackRockArt]

This image is of two Tree Swallows courting. I would like to know how to get both birds in focus at one time. I have a Nikon Z9 with the 180 - 600mm Z lens on it. The camera is new to me. I have used Steve Perry's wildlife set up. I seem to photograph small birds so the crop is big. I shoot in raw and did use Lightroom to adjust and denoise. Thank you for your help.View attachment 85127

Hi Kathy

Lovely little birds, these swallows are beautiful in the spring.

WRT your focus question, your best option is using a shorter focal length, maybe try 400mm?

At 500mm focal length, if I assume you stand 587cm in front of the left swallow A, the right swallow B is 15cm away; at F/8, your depth of field is 2.9cm. ( This is just a rough calculation off the top of my head, but you get the idea)

The typical body lenth of a tree swallow is 12cm ~ 15cm; the head is around 5 cm; you can not get both birds in the same focal plane space.

Oliver

PS: attached photos are for size comparison of mom & babies.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[bleirer]

Cropping also reduces depth of field some, but sometimes you can't get closer. The other ideas given are all good. Compositing isn't super hard in photoshop with the newer subject detection tools. Takes some following directions.

To add on, to my eye the whites in the body are overexposed, possibly blown. You might see if you can pull them down a little if possible.

 

[aolander]

In the image you posted, if you had moved to the right a bit so the two birds were equidistant from the camera, they both would have been in focus. Depth of field comes into play here.

 

[Kathy#1]

First option is to use a small aperture such as f16. That is assuming you have enough light to do this. Sometimes it works and sometimes it is still not enough.

Second option is to take two shots in quick succession, with each shot focused on a different bird. Then take the sharp bird from each photo and combine them in software.

Thank you so much! I will try these suggestions!

 

[Kathy#1]

First, make sure the camera's sensor plane is perfectly parallel to the 2 birds. In this case, it appears the bird on the right is further away from the camera than the bird on the left. The subjects need to be the same distance to the camera. THEN you can adjust the aperture to allow for the needed DOF.

Thank you so much! Great suggestion!

 

[Kathy#1]

Take a photo of each bird and merge it. Shoot fast between shifting between birds.
You can focus on the wire or branch between them, that can also render both in focus.

Thank you! This is a great idea! I will have to learn how to do that!

 

[Kathy#1]

Didn't @Steve do a video on this?

Edit: found it!

Game Changer: Keep Multiple Animals Sharp At The Same Time - Backcountry Gallery

Have you ever run into a situation where you had multiple animals in the frame and just couldn’t find a way to keep them all sharp at the same time – even when you stopped down? This is actually a really common problem for close and mid-range shots of small to medium-sized wildlife. In fact, […]

backcountrygallery.com

Thank you! This is great information! I look forward to watching and learning this technique. Thank you for taking the time to find this!

 

[Kathy#1]

Hi Kathy

Lovely little birds, these swallows are beautiful in the spring.

WRT your focus question, your best option is using a shorter focal length, maybe try 400mm?

At 500mm focal length, if I assume you stand 587cm in front of the left swallow A, the right swallow B is 15cm away; at F/8, your depth of field is 2.9cm. ( This is just a rough calculation off the top of my head, but you get the idea)

The typical body lenth of a tree swallow is 12cm ~ 15cm; the head is around 5 cm; you can not get both birds in the same focal plane space.

Oliver

PS: attached photos are for size comparison of mom & babies.
View attachment 85138View attachment 85139

I love this image! The composition colors and details of these Barn Swallows are wonderful!. Thank you for your suggestion! I will try it!

 

[Kathy#1]

Cropping also reduces depth of field some, but sometimes you can't get closer. The other ideas given are all good. Compositing isn't super hard in photoshop with the newer subject detection tools. Takes some following directions.

To add on, to my eye the whites in the body are overexposed, possibly blown. You might see if you can pull them down a little if possible.

Thank you for the encouragement and critique. You are correct the whites are blown, I will try to fix that. More. importantly I will try not to let it happen again.

 

[Piecat]

Hi Kathy

Lovely little birds, these swallows are beautiful in the spring.

WRT your focus question, your best option is using a shorter focal length, maybe try 400mm?

At 500mm focal length, if I assume you stand 587cm in front of the left swallow A, the right swallow B is 15cm away; at F/8, your depth of field is 2.9cm. ( This is just a rough calculation off the top of my head, but you get the idea)

The typical body lenth of a tree swallow is 12cm ~ 15cm; the head is around 5 cm; you can not get both birds in the same focal plane space.

Oliver

PS: attached photos are for size comparison of mom & babies.
View attachment 85138View attachment 85139

The babies are soooo adorable!

 

[Kathy#1]

The babies are soooo adorable!

Thank you! I am going to try that!

 

[bleirer]

You have to be careful with stopping down too much, diffraction starts to take back some of the sharpness. Check out this calculator. If your camera isn't listed look at one with same size sensor, and enter the megapixels your camera has.

Diffraction Calculator | PhotoPills

This diffraction calculator will help you assess when the camera is diffraction limited.

www.photopills.com

 

[Viathelens]

In order for any two or more items you are shooting to be sharp they must be on the same focal plane. This does happen on occasion with wildlife but not that often but I'm often looking for that composition. Use a technique mentioned above if you are able to. If it's a small group you might consider f/8 if the light lets you do that in order to get things at least a bit sharper. You can also experiment with even smaller apertures, such as f/11 and so on providing there is light.

 

[DRwyoming]

This image is of two Tree Swallows courting. I would like to know how to get both birds in focus at one time. I have a Nikon Z9 with the 180 - 600mm Z lens on it. The camera is new to me. I have used Steve Perry's wildlife set up. I seem to photograph small birds so the crop is big. I shoot in raw and did use Lightroom to adjust and denoise. Thank you for your help.View attachment 85127

Lot's of good advice in the responses, for subjects at different distances from the camera it comes down to either stopping down for greater Depth of Field or combining two or more sharp images in post processing. But for an image like this, @Butlerkid (Karen's) advice is on the money, if you could have moved your position just a bit to the right so that both birds were the same distance or much closer to the same distance from the camera you could have captured both of them sharp with a single image.

There's lot's of situations where just a bit of photographer movement, up down, left or right can make an image work that might not work from where you initially see your subjects. That's not always possible and the wildlife may not stick around for you to move around like that but recognizing situations where a bit of position change can make things work is really helpful in wildlife photography not just in terms of in-focus subjects but also backgrounds, lighting, etc.

 

[Kathy#1]

In the image you posted, if you had moved to the right a bit so the two birds were equidistant from the camera, they both would have been in focus. Depth of field comes into play here.

Thank you these suggestions! I will remember them the next time I come across the opportunity to photograph two birds together. That should be soon since it is spring.

 

[Kathy#1]

In order for any two or more items you are shooting to be sharp they must be on the same focal plane. This does happen on occasion with wildlife but not that often but I'm often looking for that composition. Use a technique mentioned above if you are able to. If it's a small group you might consider f/8 if the light lets you do that in order to get things at least a bit sharper. You can also experiment with even smaller apertures, such as f/11 and so on providing there is light.

Thank you! This advice is helpful!

 

[Kathy#1]

Lot's of good advice in the responses, for subjects at different distances from the camera it comes down to either stopping down for greater Depth of Field or combining two or more sharp images in post processing. But for an image like this, @Butlerkid (Karen's) advice is on the money, if you could have moved your position just a bit to the right so that both birds were the same distance or much closer to the same distance from the camera you could have captured both of them sharp with a single image.

There's lot's of situations where just a bit of photographer movement, up down, left or right can make an image work that might not work from where you initially see your subjects. That's not always possible and the wildlife may not stick around for you to move around like that but recognizing situations where a bit of position change can make things work is really helpful in wildlife photography not just in terms of in-focus subjects but also backgrounds, lighting, etc.

Yes, I appreciate the advice on this site. I do have another question. If I am able to get the birds on the same plane. Should I leave the bird detection on? The camera seems to focus on one eye.

 

[NorthernFocus]

Yes, I appreciate the advice on this site. I do have another question. If I am able to get the birds on the same plane. Should I leave the bird detection on? The camera seems to focus on one eye.

Yes the camera can only focus on one spot. If the two birds are truly in the same plane it shouldn't matter. However that's rarely the case. There are frequently situations that come up that may require overriding subject detection. You may find it useful to have a button programmed to use single point focus. This allows you to force the camera to focus where you want it to. For example in this situation you may have been able to get both birds within depth of field by increasing aperture a bit and focusing on the fence wire half way between them.

 

[Kathy#1]

Yes the camera can only focus on one spot. If the two birds are truly in the same plane it shouldn't matter. However that's rarely the case. There are frequently situations that come up that may require overriding subject detection. You may find it useful to have a button programmed to use single point focus. This allows you to force the camera to focus where you want it to. For example in this situation you may have been able to get both birds within depth of field by increasing aperture a bit and focusing on the fence wire half way between them.

Thank you! I do have my camera programed for the single point focus. It makes sense to use it in that situation. Thank you again.

 

[David Berry]

You may have been able to get both birds within depth of field by increasing aperture a bit.

Wouldn't increasing the aperture result in a decreased depth of field, making it more difficult to get both birds in focus?