How many are not in a rush to buy the newest cameras

[ruley74]

I like shiny new stuff... i admit it.

With starting on mirrorless, there is things i miss, so I'd like to add a good mirrorless option. But I'm really happy with what i have for what i do. The D500 may go for a Z6II depending on performance, but no hurry.

 

[LL4D500]

I don’t think I am particularly attached to my gear. Cameras and lenses are tools. But some improvements can be very helpful, especially in bird and other wildlife photography. I am lucky enough to be able to have multiple camera bodies — I kept my D500 and D850 when I got a Z7 and later a Z6. I really like the Z bodies and Z lenses. What I’d like improved are (i) faster auto-focus acquisition and better tracking (up to D500/D850 standard or better), (ii) more of a real time view in the EVF when at the highest frame rates (hate the current slideshow effect), and (iii) the ability to change auto-focus modes/areas with a single button press (as I can on a D500/D850).

Agree that we can’t know for sure how much improvements there have been in the new models until someone like Steve, Thom Hogan or Brad Hill gets one in hand and tries it out. I am optimistic that there will be improvement on at least two of my issues. I am also interested to see when Nikon releases the manuals for the new cameras, as it will tell me if they have added the ability to switch focus modes with a single button press.

Given the fall bird migration season in Minnesota is winding down and I have no trips scheduled before April/May of next year (assuming they go ahead), I have no pressure (other than a strong case of NAS/GAS) to try to buy one quickly. Spring bird migration here starts to pick up in mid- to late-March and it would be nice to have one for that (at least if I am going to get one).

So I am trying for now to hold off my NAS/GAS, waiting for more independent information and reviews.

Where are you at in MN? I am in the Alexandria area

 

[JANuser]

As far as I know any performance loss of F-mount lenses on Z bodies are not caused by the FTZ adapter. The adapter does not have any influence on the performance of the lens. Performance loss, primarily focus speed, is a function of the first generation Z bodies. Hopefully the new Z11 bodies will fix that.

Every review I've seen said there was a hit to F-mount AF performance on Z vs on a DSLR. I used the FT-1 adaptor on Nikon 1 bodies, which were good for their time, and I noticed some difference in hit rates, very different cameras from the Z, but it sounds similar to what people have said about using F-mount Nikkors on Z cameras. Never tried it on a Z camera mind you, but I feel no need to change anyway, the D850 should last me at least 5+ years.

 

[Rassie]

Every review I've seen said there was a hit to F-mount AF performance on Z vs on a DSLR. I used the FT-1 adaptor on Nikon 1 bodies, which were good for their time, and I noticed some difference in hit rates, very different cameras from the Z, but it sounds similar to what people have said about using F-mount Nikkors on Z cameras. Never tried it on a Z camera mind you, but I feel no need to change anyway, the D850 should last me at least 5+ years.

You're correct, of course. There is a defininte hit on the autofocus capabilities of F-mount lenses on the Z6/7 cameras.
Here's why:
I use three F-mount lenses on my D7500, and on my Z6 through the FTZ adapter. These are the Nikkor 70-200mm F4, the Nikkor 200-500mm F5.6, and the Sigma 105mm F2.8 macro lens. I found these lenses to be at least as sharp, or even sharper on the Z6 through the adapter than on the D7500. I ascribe that to the more accurate autofocus capability of the Z body with its hybrid AF system. I fine-tuned the autofocus of the two Nikkor lenses on each of my DSLR bodies that I've used them on until now. The Sigma plays well enough with the D7500 that I've not needed to fine tune it on the d7500. I have not fine-tuned the AF of any of these lenses on the Z6 - there's no need.

But for the autofocus speed, everything else on these lenses work perfectly on the Z6 through the adapter. The slower autofocus of F-mount lenses on the Z cameras is due to a lack of processing power in the camera's Expeed operating engine and has nothing to do with the adapter. You can imagine that a mirrorless camera requires much more on-board computer processing than a DSLR, what with the electronic viewfinder, eye-tracking AF, etc. Just look at the fast battery drain of the Z bodies compared to DSLRs. All these processing demands tax the Expeed 6 processor to the point that it does not have enough juice left to properly drive the autofocus motor on the lens as well. This will be one of the reasons why Nikon installed a second Expeed processor in the new Z611 and Z711, same as in the D500 with its excellent autofocus capabilities. The FTZ adapter has no lens elements in it - it is merely a spacer to position the rear lens element farther ahead of the sensor and therefore does not impact image quality at all.

 

[The Sarge]

No hurry at all to buy the newest and latest camera, my D500 suits my needs perfectly.

 

[JANuser]

Rassie, Yes, I'm sure adding another Expeed will help focus performance. Thing is, why pay again for AF speed that I already have on the D850? It is already fast, and better yet I don't need an adapter. Just don't see any need to go mirrorless, it doesn't fix a photographic problem that I have with my DSLRs.

 

[Letolen]

Thank you all for your replies.
Very interesting read

 

[BillW]

Where are you at in MN? I am in the Alexandria area

Saint Paul and the Ely area.

 

[gordon_g]

You're correct, of course. There is a defininte hit on the autofocus capabilities of F-mount lenses on the Z6/7 cameras.
Here's why:
I use three F-mount lenses on my D7500, and on my Z6 through the FTZ adapter. These are the Nikkor 70-200mm F4, the Nikkor 200-500mm F5.6, and the Sigma 105mm F2.8 macro lens. I found these lenses to be at least as sharp, or even sharper on the Z6 through the adapter than on the D7500. I ascribe that to the more accurate autofocus capability of the Z body with its hybrid AF system. I fine-tuned the autofocus of the two Nikkor lenses on each of my DSLR bodies that I've used them on until now. The Sigma plays well enough with the D7500 that I've not needed to fine tune it on the d7500. I have not fine-tuned the AF of any of these lenses on the Z6 - there's no need.

But for the autofocus speed, everything else on these lenses work perfectly on the Z6 through the adapter. The slower autofocus of F-mount lenses on the Z cameras is due to a lack of processing power in the camera's Expeed operating engine and has nothing to do with the adapter. You can imagine that a mirrorless camera requires much more on-board computer processing than a DSLR, what with the electronic viewfinder, eye-tracking AF, etc. Just look at the fast battery drain of the Z bodies compared to DSLRs. All these processing demands tax the Expeed 6 processor to the point that it does not have enough juice left to properly drive the autofocus motor on the lens as well. This will be one of the reasons why Nikon installed a second Expeed processor in the new Z611 and Z711, same as in the D500 with its excellent autofocus capabilities. The FTZ adapter has no lens elements in it - it is merely a spacer to position the rear lens element farther ahead of the sensor and therefore does not impact image quality at all.

this is good info as I have no intention of replacing my f lenses at this time....

 

[Rassie]

Rassie, Yes, I'm sure adding another Expeed will help focus performance. Thing is, why pay again for AF speed that I already have on the D850? It is already fast, and better yet I don't need an adapter. Just don't see any need to go mirrorless, it doesn't fix a photographic problem that I have with my DSLRs.

If I had a D850 I'd probably feel the same as you, especially given that the D850 is significantly more capable as a wildlife camera than the early model Z cameras. And even the new Z6/7(11) cameras may only now have caught up with the D850. I'm not convinced that they will perform better for wildlife photography than the D850. Why fix what's not broken? In my case I always wanted a full frame camera as well as my crop sensor D7500 that I use for wildlife. The full frame cameras were too large and heavy to my liking. The small and light form factor of the Z cameras was what finally pushed me to get a full frame machine, and since mirrorless seems to be the way of the future I got the Z6.

In answer to the original poster's question, I usually skip at least one upgrade model before I buy again, and then only if I see a clear advantage that will help improve my photography or satisfy a specific need. And I usually don't buy any new model as soon as it's released. Most of my purchases are made about a year after that specific body has been released.

 

[Capturingtheunseen.com]

My top priority, aside from the experience of being out there, is image quality. That guides my decisions instead of bells and whistles.

 

[Squawk]

I’m not attached to my camera but for some reason I’ve still got my Nikon F with the add on TTL top. I have a D500 and would like a full frame (gave my D800 away to a worthy cause) but I’m just not overly motivated to buy. I’d like mirrorless for the quiet as some critters think they’ve just been shot with the mirror flapping up and down, but I’ve not seen anything in the Zs that excites me. The D850 is tempting with the focus stacking but it’ll probably have turned into a D880 by the time I get there. What would get my attention would be game changing iso capability. It’s already good on some cameras (not D500) but awesome would be nice.

I have an attachment to my 3 lenses. I don’t treat them with kid gloves but what I’ve got I hope to keep and have very little on the wish list.

 

[Rassie]

No hurry at all to buy the newest and latest camera, my D500 suits my needs perfectly.

You've said it very succinctly. Why upgrade when your current gear suits all your needs? It's not as if camera equipment is cheap.....
And speaking of which, the D500 is a very capable camera. Still state of the art in the crop sensor world.

 

[LL4D500]

You're correct, of course. There is a defininte hit on the autofocus capabilities of F-mount lenses on the Z6/7 cameras.
Here's why:
I use three F-mount lenses on my D7500, and on my Z6 through the FTZ adapter. These are the Nikkor 70-200mm F4, the Nikkor 200-500mm F5.6, and the Sigma 105mm F2.8 macro lens. I found these lenses to be at least as sharp, or even sharper on the Z6 through the adapter than on the D7500. I ascribe that to the more accurate autofocus capability of the Z body with its hybrid AF system. I fine-tuned the autofocus of the two Nikkor lenses on each of my DSLR bodies that I've used them on until now. The Sigma plays well enough with the D7500 that I've not needed to fine tune it on the d7500. I have not fine-tuned the AF of any of these lenses on the Z6 - there's no need.

But for the autofocus speed, everything else on these lenses work perfectly on the Z6 through the adapter. The slower autofocus of F-mount lenses on the Z cameras is due to a lack of processing power in the camera's Expeed operating engine and has nothing to do with the adapter. You can imagine that a mirrorless camera requires much more on-board computer processing than a DSLR, what with the electronic viewfinder, eye-tracking AF, etc. Just look at the fast battery drain of the Z bodies compared to DSLRs. All these processing demands tax the Expeed 6 processor to the point that it does not have enough juice left to properly drive the autofocus motor on the lens as well. This will be one of the reasons why Nikon installed a second Expeed processor in the new Z611 and Z711, same as in the D500 with its excellent autofocus capabilities. The FTZ adapter has no lens elements in it - it is merely a spacer to position the rear lens element farther ahead of the sensor and therefore does not impact image quality at all.

With the second Expeed 6 processor installed, does that mean the Z611 and Z711 will focus just at fast as the D500?

 

[Rassie]

Now that's the million dollar question. I don't think we'll know until someone like Steve physically tests it.

 

[joe43]

I am OK with my current cameras, D850 and D500. Just because a camera is mirrorless means nothing to me. I pick my cameras based on the features it has AND that I need and my ability to use it in a way that matches my shooting preferences.

I am more interested in lenses that are lighter, and still very sharp, like the 500pf and 300pf. For me a 600pf or a 150mm or 200mm pf macro lens, f4 or f2.8 would get my money vs a mirrorless body.

 

[EricBowles]

You're correct, of course. There is a defininte hit on the autofocus capabilities of F-mount lenses on the Z6/7 cameras.
Here's why:
I use three F-mount lenses on my D7500, and on my Z6 through the FTZ adapter. These are the Nikkor 70-200mm F4, the Nikkor 200-500mm F5.6, and the Sigma 105mm F2.8 macro lens. I found these lenses to be at least as sharp, or even sharper on the Z6 through the adapter than on the D7500. I ascribe that to the more accurate autofocus capability of the Z body with its hybrid AF system. I fine-tuned the autofocus of the two Nikkor lenses on each of my DSLR bodies that I've used them on until now. The Sigma plays well enough with the D7500 that I've not needed to fine tune it on the d7500. I have not fine-tuned the AF of any of these lenses on the Z6 - there's no need.

But for the autofocus speed, everything else on these lenses work perfectly on the Z6 through the adapter. The slower autofocus of F-mount lenses on the Z cameras is due to a lack of processing power in the camera's Expeed operating engine and has nothing to do with the adapter. You can imagine that a mirrorless camera requires much more on-board computer processing than a DSLR, what with the electronic viewfinder, eye-tracking AF, etc. Just look at the fast battery drain of the Z bodies compared to DSLRs. All these processing demands tax the Expeed 6 processor to the point that it does not have enough juice left to properly drive the autofocus motor on the lens as well. This will be one of the reasons why Nikon installed a second Expeed processor in the new Z611 and Z711, same as in the D500 with its excellent autofocus capabilities. The FTZ adapter has no lens elements in it - it is merely a spacer to position the rear lens element farther ahead of the sensor and therefore does not impact image quality at all.

Koos - that's a really good response and very accurate.

I've got over 50,000 images with my Z6. I've found focus speed depends on both the lens, the camera and technique. A slow focusing lens won't be any faster using the FTZ, but it may be more accurate. A fast focusing lens may be very slightly slower moving from completely out of focus to in sharp focus on the Z, but it's very hard to measure. Where it gets tough is when you prefocus near the correct distance - and then the Z cameras seem to be as fast or faster. Where it gets interesting is I find the Z to be more accurate in focusing than my D850 or D500. The DSLR cameras achieve accurate focus but seem to have a wider distribution of very small focus errors than the Z cameras. LensRentals.com had an article a few years ago about AF errors comparing phase detect with live view, and both methods had a distribution of errors. Focus was never perfect - but most of the time the errors were hard to see without equipment. Higher resolution cameras make it easier to see an AF error.

I had a 70-200 f/2.8 that I used for literally 2000 images over several days on my Z6. The images were excellent with focus nearly always excellent. I tried the same lens one day on my D850 and found I had 4 inches of backfocusing on every one of 450 images. I tested the lens, another copy of the same lens, and both cameras. I consistently repeated the error under controlled test conditions. It turned out the lens needed repair by Nikon. But the images with the same lens and my Z6 were excellent.

As we look to new cameras, sometimes there are meaningful updates in technology. For example, the D500 and D5 were the first Nikon cameras to use a second processor for AF. I do a lot of equestrian photography and have a couple of events that I have photographed in successive days or years with different cameras but the same style and the same lens. My "in focus rate" for action photos was around 65% with the D800E, 74% with the D810, and jumped to 95% with the D500 because of the Group AF mode (which has nearest subject priority) and the separate AF processor. That kind of difference matters. The difference between the D800 and D810 was not as compelling.

 

[EricBowles]

With the second Expeed 6 processor installed, does that mean the Z611 and Z711 will focus just at fast as the D500?

Well the D6 AF speed is noticeably faster than the D5 - and the D5 and D500 were released around the same time with nearly the same AF. I think there is potential for faster AF focus with the Z6ii. Certainly it will be improved. The other thing the processor is being used for is to improve frame rate and write speed. I have no idea of the details of how processor load is being allocated.

 

[Ralph]

For me, it's an odd situation. From just a photography standpoint, I can get by with almost anything. I've taken shots that have been very popular, published, and sold well as prints with very basic equipment. However, as a "photographic educator" it's tricker since I need to keep up with the latest and greatest for videos, books, and workshops. Sort of a weird mental dichotomy.

The truth is, gear has long ago lost its luster for me. I look at cameras and lenses as a means to an end - little more than a bag of tools to get the job done. This doesn't mean I don't want good tools, just that I'm not usually very excited about them. My new D6 sat, unopened, in the brown UPS box for nearly a week before I actually bothered to open it.

For me, it's the experience of shooting. I enjoy going out, finding subjects, and sharing what I capture with the world (or as much of that world is willing to look at my work). One thing I tell people is that when I'm face to face with an exciting subject in the viewfinder, I am not thinking about the gear at all. In fact, at that very moment, I may not even know what camera I'm using. I'm totally in the moment, only thinking about the shot. That's where the real fun is

In the end, I'll pick the tools that I think will get the job done. If a new tool comes out that seems like it will make the job easier to get done (better AF, faster FPS, etc) or allow me to spend less time messing with settings and more time making (what I pass off as) art, then I'm interested.

Steve, I totally agree!

 

[Calson]

I concur with the comment about pre-focusing with a camera. Shooting the D5, D500, and D850, the D5 was noticeably better at quickly locking focus on a bird heading toward or away from the camera. Two areas are important to me, ISO performance and autofocus performance. High ISO is now a given but autofocus still has room for improvement in low light or with low contrast subjects. We are now seeing with the BSI sensors that dynamic range can be increased without detrimentally affecting other aspects of sensor performance.

I calculated that adding a kit with two Z7 cameras, three f/2.8 zoom lenses (14-24, 24-70, 70-200), FTZ adapters, teleconverters, and the new and very expensive 18c batteries would cost me roughly $15,000. This would not be a replacement for my current DSLR cameras and my FX lenses but an additional cost. There is not much point in buying a 45MP Z mirrorless camera and then attaching old FX lenses that cannot even fully resolve 36MP.

For me it is premature to add photo gear for wildlife photography when I will not be planning to do any overseas travel until 2022. New Zealand with its excellent control of the coronavirus by its government and its people has moved to the top of my places to visit next list.

 

[NineBlades]

Catching up on this thread --- I still need to work on my skills, rather than eeking out the last bit of performance of the camera body or lens. I am getting better at basics like composition and finding objects but what I find lacking on my end, and where I need to catch up on, is the post processing and getting to a better workflow (as an amateur, not someone who makes a living out of selling photographs). Until I reach a plateau there, my D750 is all I need...

 

[tomfranic]

For me, it's an odd situation. From just a photography standpoint, I can get by with almost anything. I've taken shots that have been very popular, published, and sold well as prints with very basic equipment. However, as a "photographic educator" it's tricker since I need to keep up with the latest and greatest for videos, books, and workshops. Sort of a weird mental dichotomy.

The truth is, gear has long ago lost its luster for me. I look at cameras and lenses as a means to an end - little more than a bag of tools to get the job done. This doesn't mean I don't want good tools, just that I'm not usually very excited about them. My new D6 sat, unopened, in the brown UPS box for nearly a week before I actually bothered to open it.

For me, it's the experience of shooting. I enjoy going out, finding subjects, and sharing what I capture with the world (or as much of that world is willing to look at my work). One thing I tell people is that when I'm face to face with an exciting subject in the viewfinder, I am not thinking about the gear at all. In fact, at that very moment, I may not even know what camera I'm using. I'm totally in the moment, only thinking about the shot. That's where the real fun is

In the end, I'll pick the tools that I think will get the job done. If a new tool comes out that seems like it will make the job easier to get done (better AF, faster FPS, etc) or allow me to spend less time messing with settings and more time making (what I pass off as) art, then I'm interested.

I agree, I will probably write same thing with all that in"my" bin of equipment
But now i working to start from beginning. Don't have any lens and camera. That is a reason why I thinking to jump on mirror-less and waiting for comparison of D850 and ZII.
If that will be almost close, who know.
And 1 day maybe first Pro mirror-less like D5,D6 is that Z9 i don't know. And some new Z E-mount big lenses too.
But I have time to wait until I still earning money

https://www.tomislavfranic.com/photography (here is my first touch of photography with Pentax K20D before 10 years)

Cheers from Croatia and sorry 4 my almost good English

 

[Deleted member 115]

Just curious
Is there a real need to rush to the newest camera?
How much improvement in your Photography do you get from a new camera?

Do you have attachment to your camera or is it just a tool?

Not sure if it just me I love watching the new cameras come out & reading reviews but happy with what I have or is that just living in the past.
I was very slow moving to digital from film as I didn't want to give up my camera that I had used for over 15 years.
Reading forums I feel ones like me a very rare

No answer for me, since I am fairly new to "real" digital photography. I started with a D3400 a few years ago now I have D500, D850 and have no plans of upgrading anytime soon. Although, I am having trouble deciding if I should purchase a Z7 or D850 to replace my better half's D7500 at Christmas time.
It's not like you pros were putting out poor photos at any point though...lol

 

[Rodamu]

Just curious
Is there a real need to rush to the newest camera?
How much improvement in your Photography do you get from a new camera?

Do you have attachment to your camera or is it just a tool?

Not sure if it just me I love watching the new cameras come out & reading reviews but happy with what I have or is that just living in the past.
I was very slow moving to digital from film as I didn't want to give up my camera that I had used for over 15 years.
Reading forums I feel ones like me a very rare

Once digital cameras had 18 or more megapixels, they surpassed the resolution of film and there was good reason to go digital unless you were into certain art forms. Cameras improve every few years but major improvements take longer. I am not the type to have the newest model just because it is the newest.

 

[ronpier]

Just curious
Is there a real need to rush to the newest camera?
How much improvement in your Photography do you get from a new camera?

Do you have attachment to your camera or is it just a tool?

Not sure if it just me I love watching the new cameras come out & reading reviews but happy with what I have or is that just living in the past.
I was very slow moving to digital from film as I didn't want to give up my camera that I had used for over 15 years.
Reading forums I feel ones like me a very rare