How to use Group Area AF properly

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markymark

markymark

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Hi All
I’ve just joined & am new to photography so any advice & or help you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated.
I have a Nikon D500 but have been having trouble getting used to the Group Area AF Mode & never seem to know where my subject should be in relation to those four squares in my viewfinder!
I was told to use it to take shots of birds flying towards the camera as well as when a bird is flying in front of bushes or trees in the background, but my hit ratio is lousy so just use the 25 focus point mode, which although not brilliant gets me better results than the GA AF Mode.
Can anyone help?
Many thanks.
 
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markymark said:
Hi All
I’ve just joined & am new to photography so any advice & or help you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated.
I have a Nikon D500 but have been having trouble getting used to the Group Area AF Mode & never seem to know where my subject should be in relation to those four squares in my viewfinder!
I was told to use it to take shots of birds flying towards the camera as well as when a bird is flying in front of bushes or trees in the background, but my hit ratio is lousy so just use the 25 focus point mode, which although not brilliant gets me better results than the GA AF Mode.
Can anyone help?
Many thanks.
Click to expand...
Ideally the primary subject area of your photo (e.g. the eyes) should be right in the middle of those four squares. But the beauty of Group is that your tracking can wander quite a bit and group will often hold the desired focus even when the subject drifts in your viewfinder.

The downside of Nikon's Group AF mode is that it gives priority to higher contrast areas that are closest to the camera. So if something like a wing on a larger bird is closer to the camera than the eye then Group will often focus on the wing and if there's insufficient DOF the eye may be soft. Similarly for some birds flying right towards the camera Group AF may focus on the tip of the beak and again without enough DOF may lose the eyes.

I use Group AF a lot but if I'm worried about scenarios like those above I'll go back to one of the smaller Dynamic modes for action shots which places extra emphasis on the center square of the set of focus points. For slow moving or static shots I always use Single Point AF.
 
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For all the reasons mentioned above, group AF can be treated as a "auto" AF mode and as mentioned is prone to do something different than what is expected. That's why I use single point AF 99% of the time because I know where that focus point is and it won't stray from the subject unless I allow it to.

The only circumstance where I use group AF is when a bird is perched and I might need some help when it takes off, and I'd prefer a take of than something static.

Say the bird is facing right. It's understandable to expect the bird to take off to the right. I have the left most focus point on the bird whilst static and when it takes off I might catch it with that focus point but if it's a bit quick I have a second chance to catch it as it flies into the space covered by the right hand focus point. All very quick of course but I have two chances.
 
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I was wondering the same thing about GA AF Mode on my D500. I've been shooting with D25 AF mode, and have been for the most part successful. But after reading this, Im going to switch to single point AF, with GA AF set on my Pv button.
 
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FWIW, I've played with a bunch of custom control options in terms of AF modes, metering, etc. Currently I'm set to AF ON (current camera selected mode) on the back panel AF ON button and AF-ON + Area with Single Point for the PV button. The way I look at it a lot of Single Point shots are slower moving or more static portraits and I have a bit of time to focus precisely. But when action explodes I find it faster and more intuitive to hit that AF-ON button with my thumb on the back of the camera.

So I like having the faster action oriented AF mode accessible with my thumb for quick responses but whether that's set to Group, D25 (or D9 in supporting cameras) or even sometimes set back to Single Point depends on what I'm shooting. I'll sometimes set the main camera mode to Single Point which is mostly for portrait mode shooting on my D5 where it's not convenient to hit the PV button while shooting verticals.

Anyway, many ways to skin this cat but I like having the more action oriented focus modes accessible with my thumb and the more careful and precise modes on the PV button. YMMV
 
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First off everyone a big thanks for the replies which will be a massive help, I’m going out in the morning so will definitely be practicing with not only Group Area but also single point which to be honest
 
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Great advice above. I'd also add this:

Keep in mind that there is a lot of overlap too. Often you can get the same results with Dynamic or Group - depends on the situation. Where Group really shines is when it's tough to get an initial lock with just the primary AF point in Dynamic or it's tough to keep that lock. The trick with Dynamic is that if the primary point can't get a lock, it will try to lock on with another point in the dynamic area. Depending on how large of a dynamic area you're using, this can turn into a problem if it's really grabbing the wrong part of the target tor the wrong target altogether. In addition, if the primary point loses the lock, it'll try to use one of the other points in the Dynamic area to keep on that same part of the target, however, sometimes it grabs the wrong thing. Dynamic works best when you can mostly keep the primary AF point where you want it and just need some standby help from the other AF points in the Dynamic area for when you slip off.

Group on the other hand simply tries to grab whatever is closest to the camera (assuming good contrast). This makes it ideal for those times when keeping the primary Dynamic point on target is difficult or impossible. For me, the tougher the subject, the more likely I'll be using Group - no other AF area is better at latching onto a fast-moving large tin my experience. For easier stuff, I love Dynamic (D9 is a favorite on my D850 and D6). Of course the biggest downside with Group is that you can't be 100% sure which AF point it's going to use, so I generally only turn to it when things are fast and furious in the viewfinder (which is where I like to live :) )
 
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I use (D500) Group 25 or (D5) Group 9 on the back button focus, and single point on the shutter release button. I see no reason to get 3 fingers involved in the shot. Anyway, this has worked for me for years. Nothing wrong with using the focus + release
 
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gbodave said:
How do you get the shutter release button to engage single point AF ? At what point does it engage ?
Click to expand...
Set the camera's focusing area mode to Single Point and half press the shutter release. It's pretty much the default operation of the camera if you don't intentionally disable AF activation from the shutter release button.

IMHO, that defeats one of the best features of BBAF, the ability to decouple focusing functions from release functions. With the two decoupled you can leave the camera in AF-C mode and still do a focus and recompose via BBAF (or PV AF or similar) that won't try to reacquire focus when you press the shutter release. It's very useful in cameras where the focus selection points don't span the entire frame. You can get a similar behavior using AF-S mode and doing a half release button press and hold to lock the focus, then recompose and then finish depressing the shutter release for the capture but then it's not an instant switch to AF-C mode for action shots.

There are other ways to skin this cat like assigning a button to AF-Lock mode but personally I prefer a decoupled BBAF with one camera button assigned to action mode (e.g. Group, D25, etc.) and one to Single point mode for more static subjects but with the camera left in AF-C mode all the time.

The great thing about these cameras is there's a ton of ways to configure them to match your shooting needs so what works for me might not work for other photographers and vice versa.
 
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markymark said:
Hi All
I’ve just joined & am new to photography so any advice & or help you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated.
I have a Nikon D500 but have been having trouble getting used to the Group Area AF Mode & never seem to know where my subject should be in relation to those four squares in my viewfinder!
I was told to use it to take shots of birds flying towards the camera as well as when a bird is flying in front of bushes or trees in the background, but my hit ratio is lousy so just use the 25 focus point mode, which although not brilliant gets me better results than the GA AF Mode.
Can anyone help?
Many thanks.
Click to expand...
Get Steve's "Nikon AF Guide" (not the title but close). I've been shooting for years but I've got a couple of new cams and thought for menu surfing reasons I'd read his guide. Yes it helped for that but he is such a great teacher, truly, and offers quiet insights that are truly transformational in how you and when you use Nikon's 45 billion AF options :)
 
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DRwyoming said:
Set the camera's focusing area mode to Single Point and half press the shutter release. It's pretty much the default operation of the camera if you don't intentionally disable AF activation from the shutter release button.

IMHO, that defeats one of the best features of BBAF, the ability to decouple focusing functions from release functions. With the two decoupled you can leave the camera in AF-C mode and still do a focus and recompose via BBAF (or PV AF or similar) that won't try to reacquire focus when you press the shutter release. It's very useful in cameras where the focus selection points don't span the entire frame. You can get a similar behavior using AF-S mode and doing a half release button press and hold to lock the focus, then recompose and then finish depressing the shutter release for the capture but then it's not an instant switch to AF-C mode for action shots.

There are other ways to skin this cat like assigning a button to AF-Lock mode but personally I prefer a decoupled BBAF with one camera button assigned to action mode (e.g. Group, D25, etc.) and one to Single point mode for more static subjects but with the camera left in AF-C mode all the time.

The great thing about these cameras is there's a ton of ways to configure them to match your shooting needs so what works for me might not work for other photographers and vice versa.
Click to expand...

I think I was thrown by what I thought the OP was saying was he was programming the shutter button to engage single point AF. Of course they are two different functions that act together. I also use BBAF to decouple focusing from the shutter.
 
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DRwyoming said:
FWIW, I've played with a bunch of custom control options in terms of AF modes, metering, etc. Currently I'm set to AF ON (current camera selected mode) on the back panel AF ON button and AF-ON + Area with Single Point for the PV button. The way I look at it a lot of Single Point shots are slower moving or more static portraits and I have a bit of time to focus precisely. But when action explodes I find it faster and more intuitive to hit that AF-ON button with my thumb on the back of the camera.

So I like having the faster action oriented AF mode accessible with my thumb for quick responses but whether that's set to Group, D25 (or D9 in supporting cameras) or even sometimes set back to Single Point depends on what I'm shooting. I'll sometimes set the main camera mode to Single Point which is mostly for portrait mode shooting on my D5 where it's not convenient to hit the PV button while shooting verticals.

Anyway, many ways to skin this cat but I like having the more action oriented focus modes accessible with my thumb and the more careful and precise modes on the PV button. YMMV
Click to expand...
I have my pv button set the same way for the same reason.
 
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On my D500, use Group AF for situations like Steve has described above. For most other situations where there is any movement or likely movement of one or more subjects I use D 25. I use AF-C , S, or single point, when I know the subject is truly stationary and I have the time to move the focus square to the right location. I will add that this is my approach when I have my 500mm f5.6 lens mounted on the D500.

I set my likely AF setting on the camera. Then I set the next likely on the PV button. That way I can go back and forth as needed.

All my focusing is done using the AF-ON button, or back button focusing.

I use the same approach on my D 850 except I use D 9 instead of D 25.
 
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Hi Guys
Just wanted to say how blown away & grateful I am at the responses & help you’ve all given to my Group Area AF question all of which I will be trying over the coming weeks.
Really appreciate it.
Thanks.
 
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I used the BBAF . I decoupled the autofocus from the shutter as Steve describes in his book. I’m a little confused. Did I understand correctly that with my setup I can also use the shutter to focus With a different focusing mode. How is that possible if I already decoupled the shutter?
 
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I was taking pictures of a Purple Martin Fly In last night with my D 500 and D850. I was using AF-C, AF-ON, and AF set to Group AF or D9 or D 25. When you have have masses of birds in a shot, which one os best to use? Group AF or D 9 or D 25? Something else.

See attached photo. Taken in Houston, TX, Group Area AF used. D850, 300mm f2.8 len. f3.5, 1/1250.

I can't figure out how to attach the image. I will try again after I figure this out.
200823_Purple Martin_2_532_01.JPG
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
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Ralph Bruno said:
I used the BBAF . I decoupled the autofocus from the shutter as Steve describes in his book. I’m a little confused. Did I understand correctly that with my setup I can also use the shutter to focus With a different focusing mode. How is that possible if I already decoupled the shutter?
Click to expand...

With my D5, D500, D810 so on I have the shutter release set to single point and the BBF to 9 or 25 (or more) depending on the camera. While shooting a burst if I push the BBF raise my finger off the shutter release and back on (takes less than a nano second) it changes to BBF selection as I hold the shutter release to rip off photos.
Some seem to suggest this does not work, but it does. I use it always.
 
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No matter what autofocus mode you employ for any particular situation, it pays dividends to really know the ins-and-outs and operating details of every AF mode.

In my case I spent a day shooting Bald Eagles right after I purchased my D500, and I took the advice of the person I was with that day to shoot in Group AF mode. I had no clue about what Group AF mode did, and treated it just like it was Single-Point AF mode. (But with a bigger "single point".) I got lucky for a few of the shots, but ended up with many photos with sharp wingtips and out-of-focus eyes. If I understood Group AF that day, I could have employed it properly and likely had more keepers at the end of the day.

The bottom line is that you can get by sometimes by just knowing the basics of your equipment. However, as situations get more complex and different, you need to know how the gear works, in detail, to get the best from it. You also need to practice the craft to keep that knowledge fresh, so it becomes ingrained and almost habitual.

$0.02...
 
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joe43 said:
I was taking pictures of a Purple Martin Fly In last night with my D 500 and D850. I was using AF-C, AF-ON, and AF set to Group AF or D9 or D 25. When you have have masses of birds in a shot, which one os best to use? Group AF or D 9 or D 25? Something else.

See attached photo. Taken in Houston, TX, Group Area AF used. D850, 300mm f2.8 len. f3.5, 1/1250.

I can't figure out how to attach the image. I will try again after I figure this out.
Click to expand...

It depends how you have things assigned - and note you can't specifically assign the shutter release button and AF area mode. If you have AF-On set strictly for AF-On and not another AF area mode, then you can set your AF area mode to any AF area mode with the Focus Mode button and then use AF-On to focus (that's how I do it). You can then have thew Pv button set for another AF mode (technically, it can overlap the one your currently set to via the Focus Mode button).

On the other hand, if you have an the AF-On button set to AF-On + an area mode (say, single point), then even if you set the camera's normal AF mode to say, Dynamic 25, when you press the AF-On button it will override the D25 setting and go to single point. And of course you'd need to set the Pv buttons AF mode to AF-On + area mode.

My advice is to do all your focusing with the AF-On button and not set an area mode with it in the menu. That way, you can choose any AF mode you like to use with it. Then, set the Pv button to an alternative AF area you might need (and I only set the AF area here, but you can do it with the AF area + AF-on so it focuses too - I just focus everything with the AF-on button).

I actually assign my Pv button to single point. That way, if I'm using Group and things slow down, I can just hold the Pv button and use single point. If things heat up again, I just let go and start firing away.
 
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DRwyoming said:
Ideally the primary subject area of your photo (e.g. the eyes) should be right in the middle of those four squares. But the beauty of Group is that your tracking can wander quite a bit and group will often hold the desired focus even when the subject drifts in your viewfinder.

The downside of Nikon's Group AF mode is that it gives priority to higher contrast areas that are closest to the camera. So if something like a wing on a larger bird is closer to the camera than the eye then Group will often focus on the wing and if there's insufficient DOF the eye may be soft. Similarly for some birds flying right towards the camera Group AF may focus on the tip of the beak and again without enough DOF may lose the eyes.

I use Group AF a lot but if I'm worried about scenarios like those above I'll go back to one of the smaller Dynamic modes for action shots which places extra emphasis on the center square of the set of focus points. For slow moving or static shots I always use Single Point AF.
Click to expand...
DRwyoming said:
Ideally the primary subject area of your photo (e.g. the eyes) should be right in the middle of those four squares. But the beauty of Group is that your tracking can wander quite a bit and group will often hold the desired focus even when the subject drifts in your viewfinder.

The downside of Nikon's Group AF mode is that it gives priority to higher contrast areas that are closest to the camera. So if something like a wing on a larger bird is closer to the camera than the eye then Group will often focus on the wing and if there's insufficient DOF the eye may be soft. Similarly for some birds flying right towards the camera Group AF may focus on the tip of the beak and again without enough DOF may lose the eyes.

I use Group AF a lot but if I'm worried about scenarios like those above I'll go back to one of the smaller Dynamic modes for action shots which places extra emphasis on the center square of the set of focus points. For slow moving or static shots I always use Single Point AF.
Click to expand...
markymark said:
Hi All
I’ve just joined & am new to photography so any advice & or help you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated.
I have a Nikon D500 but have been having trouble getting used to the Group Area AF Mode & never seem to know where my subject should be in relation to those four squares in my viewfinder!
I was told to use it to take shots of birds flying towards the camera as well as when a bird is flying in front of bushes or trees in the background, but my hit ratio is lousy so just use the 25 focus point mode, which although not brilliant gets me better results than the GA AF Mode.
Can anyone help?
Many thanks.
Click to expand...
Just a suggestion. I use BBAF as Steve encourages. I have the button set to "Single". I place the bird in the middle of the 4 Group AF Boxes (not activated) and use them as a guide when preparinig for my shot. When I am close to what I want, I push the BBAF button and the camera locks on to the bird! I've had very good success with birds, parachutists, as well as other action pictures. I have my PV set for Group AF, in the event I need to broaden my focus. I did find when I set the "Custom Control Assignment? on camera, I had to set it for "AF-area mode + AF-ON", then went Right to select Group-Area AF. It works great! I can use boxes to guide, then Single and then if I want to expand my focus area, I press the PV button to activate Group AF.
 
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