I just don't get it

[Mr F Stop.]

Well here's my take on it. I agree with everything that's been said more or less. But would add, here in Bulgaria where nature is open to all. I mean that in the real sense, there are now hedges or fences and folk including me can roam anywhere and everywhere. They have National parks but they are unrestricted as well. So this is a double edged sword in that wild life gets to go anywhere it wants, it's also WILD! So the chances of getting close without spending a night in a hide are very slim. So unless your Rockelfeller and can afford the longest prime lens you have to use a crop sensor camera to even get half a chance good image.

 

[Ado Wolf]

@Robin thank you for sharing your thoughts.. I've been (still am) going through the same dilemma.. I know for wildlife I will stick to DX, as I tend to crop as you do, considering I photograph in open forests (and not in national parks). I am however starting to take more landscape photos, that's why I first need to figure out how much more will I be doing it. The D850 sounds like the perfect solution.

@Steve thank you for summing up the advantages in a nutshell.

 

[FB101]

Steve, DR, my wife did say, did I really want to get rid of my 1D MK4 to buy my Nikon stuff...........

So funny, sounds like you had the same journey I had - went from 1D mk4 and all L glass to Nikon D750... my wife's look of complete disbelief has not left her since
Finally getting close to having rebuilt my full set, only took 6 years. So not in a rush to be talked into Z mount any time soon.

 

[Robin]

So funny, sounds like you had the same journey I had - went from 1D mk4 and all L glass to Nikon D750... my wife's look of complete disbelief has not left her since
Finally getting close to having rebuilt my full set, only took 6 years. So not in a rush to be talked into Z mount any time soon.

My wife constantly looks at me in disbelief...told her I fancied getting back into motorcycling......................

 

[Ken Miracle]

Thanks for your reply Steve, Shame in someways Canon didn't progress with 1.3 cropped sensor, the best of both worlds.
I'm thinking it would be nice to have second D500, a smashing camera, to save swapping lenses all the time and as a back-up.
My 7D11 is ageing and will need replacing I don't fancy the 90 D much and it would be good to get a better spec'd camera.
I guess that if mirrorless cameras are the way to go then the R5 seems to be that expensive way..........

I have a D850 and 2 D500's I am a bird photographer 90% of the time ... BIF and itty bitty song birds in heavy cover ... and following my gun hunting and faclonry friends around is another part of my hobby. I bought the second D500 and did not install a grip on it like I did with my first D500 and D850. I use the second D500 with a Tamron 18-400 married to it. It makes a great grab and go camera, an I use it when following my hunting buddies around in typically tough terrain in Idaho chukar country. I also use the second D500 on a Black Rapid double breathe camera harness which allows me to tuck the D500 and the 18-400 essentially behind my back and out of the way ... especially helpful to have along when birding with my D850 and 500pf or even my other D500 and Tamron 150-600 G2 (this lens is much better than many think and I cheated by sending my D500 and the Tamron lens into Tamron for their free tuning service they tune the lens to the body not the body to the lens).

 

[Robin]

If a D850 Image is better in ISO performance than a D500 would not a equivalent crop on the D850 be better than the D500 image by simply having less noise in it?

 

[arbitrage]

Thank you Eric, I briefly borrowed a R5 at a local reserve just for a few minutes.
Having used cropped sensor cameras since the Canon 20D, I was dismayed to say the least when I saw how far away the ducks seemed.
Although the focusing was dancing all over said duck I couldn’t confirm with my
Eyes any state of sharp focus. With the D500 bringing images closer, focus conformation could be almost always confirmed with my eyes.
This was a big disappointment and probably a deal breaker for any future FF camera for me.
So I’m thankful for you pointing out the view finder can be zoomed in to verify sharp focus.

Just remember that on the R5 if you switch into 1.6x crop mode it fills the EVF with that crop so you get the same thing you get with a DSLR crop camera..ie the subject is magnified yo better view it. The R5 has the same pixel density as a 20MP (ie D500) DX camera. All MILCs behave like this in crop mode which IMO is a big advantage when you buy a high MP FF MILC. My A7RIV sits in 1.5x 26MP crop mode most of the time. My R5 is in and out of crop mode. Both cameras have custom button set to quickly switch in and out.

 

[Robin]

Just remember that on the R5 if you switch into 1.6x crop mode it fills the EVF with that crop so you get the same thing you get with a DSLR crop camera..ie the subject is magnified yo better view it. The R5 has the same pixel density as a 20MP (ie D500) DX camera. All MILCs behave like this in crop mode which IMO is a big advantage when you buy a high MP FF MILC. My A7RIV sits in 1.5x 26MP crop mode most of the time. My R5 is in and out of crop mode. Both cameras have custom button set to quickly switch in and out.

Hi I'm slowly grooming the dear wife toward an R5. I wonder if you have come across any slight problems with it . I'm not interested at all with the video but watching Will Goodlet on YT he mentions 'freezing up' slow start up EVF and a couple of other small gripes.
I would set mine up to 1.6 crop for 90% of the time, at 20 mp that would suit me fine . With Bird eye detect AF and better noise characteristics it sounds like a smashing camera.

 

[O]

I shoot with either a 7D11 on a 500f4+ 1.4 converter, and a D500 on 500, 300 pf +1.4 converter. In almost all circumstances I crop my images.
I'd like try to improve my Wildlife photography, so my learned friends try to persuade me to go full frame.

Now I get that both Canon and Nikon full frame cameras will give me better ISO quality, more frames per second and probably better AF, esp the new R5 and would inevitably give me more images to play with.
Ultimately though I'm going to have to crop these images just to get to the same size of my Canon / Nikon native images. I then will need to crop even further to get the to the size of my cameras cropped images. (You might say well i need to get closer but in Britain wildlife will rarely allow this. )

If I crop on a 1DX total pixel count would be quite small and surely not as good as I'm getting now. If i do this on say a D850 or say an R5 the pixel count is going to be within the same field as my cropped cameras.

Given the use of the latest denoise and sharpening editors surely the finished images should not be that far apart from each other albeit there may be more of them to edit.

So what will I achieve by paying several extra thousands of pounds for a D5/6/R5? apart from getting a much slicker camera and why should full frame be the camera to aspire to? What am I missing?

Perfect advice from your friends "so my learned friends try to persuade me to go full frame." good advice take it.

I hear you, Steve has also answered it well. and given you a FIX.
If you cant fill the frame on a FX then stay with the DX, simple.

For me well I see it like this,

In the left hand you have a D500 D7800, in the right hand you have the D5 D6, in the middle you have the best allrounder the D850, now just match it with the right glass.

Consolidate, Sell everything get a D850 and the right glass to go with it, 1) 600 FL. or 2) 800 FL, Spend the bucks, you only live once, you don't really need that new car do you LOL. 600 F4 Fl you say, its F4 not F5.6, its light fast sharp, great colour.

Rent first what you want to buy.
This page has some amazing views and some good tips.
One thing it shows is just how versatile and good the D850 really is. Oh it may not be the answer to your issue entirely, but your friends seem to thinkso, I would be asking why they are suggesting FX..

I find that a DX camera can deliver excellent images that even look like they were taken on higher res FX camera like the D850, however the DX camera seems to be more critically dependant on ideal light than say the D850 or single digit pro models. In the past I found hands down the moment the light goes off a little the DX goes in the bag.
Eventually I got rid of the DX cameras ages ago as have most of my colleagues, we are all FX purely for image quality (D850, D6, Z7)

Only and Opinion as always