I loose 95% shots during slow shutter for birds, helos and turboprops. . . :(

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Imtiaz

Imtiaz

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Hello,

I have been trying to learn the art and science of slow shutter photography, which I find very exciting but equally difficult.
I was hoping if some experts here can give me some inputs to help me get a little better at it.

With a D500 + 200-500 ... i tried shooting helicopters but with shutter speed ranging between 1/125 to 1/250.. that does not seem to be enough to get a disc of the propellers. But going below that to speeds in the range of 1/60 ... seem to be just impossible for me. I guess i am not able to pan well and also not using the most appropriate shutter speeds.
When it comes turbo-prop aircraft... while the propellers are faster which gives me an opportunity for higher shutter speed, the aircraft also is moving much faster than the helos.
I have been trying to learn panning on birds (cormorants) who fly past my balcony regularly.
My learning is rather slow for i dont know the specific areas which are to be addressed with settings or practice.

I also noticed that, when shoot in raw i have get much more junk pictures than JPG fine. I wonder why and how?
Chromatic aberrations also become very apparent in this genre even when i am using good quality lenses, I attribute it to very small aperture to complement the shutter speeds..

Any help will be much appreciated.

I am posting some my latest slow shutter shots, just for you to get an idea about where i am at it.
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One more issue, I face is...taking the shot of an approaching aircraft...head on shot... i just dont understand how should that be handled..Panning wont work here, because the aircraft is approaching me straight on.. i tried unzooming slowly the results were worst than pathetic...
 
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You can take a look at some shots in my gallery: https://pbase.com/baywing/old_rhinebeck_aerodrome All the digital ones have exif info so you can see shutter speeds, etc. Helo's are tough as you really have to be below 1/30 sec. Panning takes practice, practice and more practice. 5% keeper rate isn't too bad for a start. More practice and it'll rise but don't expect it to come close to 100%. At 1/250 sec, I get maybe 50%, at 1/125 sec I get maybe 25%. Early season is tough as I've had all winter to loose muscle memory/control but by the end of the season I'm better. More practice....sensing a theme?
 
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Warren thanks for the feedback.
They are nice pictures, I also see that a long time has been spent on this craft by you.

Do you shoot in RAW? How many shots do you take in one burst?

Please let me know.

Cheers,
Imtiyaz
 
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I've been shooting antique aircraft since 1984. I started shooting jpegs but switched to raw many years ago, never looked back. A RAW file is like a negative to me, ie, it's just the start. I know what I can do in post processing (like Ansel Adams knew what he would do in the darkroom) and that forms the framework for the technical side of the shot. To get the prop blur, I know I'll only get a few keepers so I shoot accordingly. I use bursts of 3-6 shots.
 
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" I also noticed that, when shoot in raw i have get much more junk pictures than JPG fine. I wonder why and how? "

In what program are you opening your NEF's? Open them in Nikon software, and they'll look just like your JPEG's. They will be developed differently in other programs, Lightroom, etc.
 
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aolander said:
" I also noticed that, when shoot in raw i have get much more junk pictures than JPG fine. I wonder why and how? "

In what program are you opening your NEF's? Open them in Nikon software, and they'll look just like your JPEG's. They will be developed differently in other programs, Lightroom, etc.
Click to expand...

aolander,

I use DXO Photolab4.
My raw images coming out of my D500 are often noisy even at ISO 640... and they lack sharpness to a degree, I am sure.
As much as it is strange it is frustrating...

Do anything about this issue...

Cheers,
Imtiyaz
 
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The JPEGs from your camera will have noise reduction and sharpening applied to them in camera. DXO probably has lower default levels for those. Shooting RAW requires editing on your part.
 
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To be honest, most of what you have posted is underexposed. This leads to higher noise and the D500 seems especially prone to this. I use Nikon Capture as my raw converter and use it's NR. Coupled with proper exposure, Capture's NR is usually all I need. I don't like the D500 at ISO's above 1600 as a rule but again, with proper exposure and NR I can get decent results to 3200. Large crops with the D500 only make things worse. The D500 seems best to me at lower ISOs, when properly exposed and the frame is nearly filled.
 
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Imtiaz said:
Ken,
I shoot hand held.
Beast it is.. it does hurt my shoulders and arms after long hours at the airfield.

Cheers,
Imtiyaz
Click to expand...
I would say that you are a glutton for punishment.;) Seriously, this is really not a handheld lens. If you want some freedom, use a monopod (and perhaps a monogimbal) or use a tripod with a gimbal. Shooting in low light, handheld, at low shutter speeds is asking for poor IQ. The D500 does not do well underexposed, and the 200-500 does not do well hand held. I know that you cannot control the lighting, but you can stabilize the lens and body, and that will help a lot. Thankfully, a monopod and monogimbal are not too expensive.

--Ken
 
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Warren D said:
To be honest, most of what you have posted is underexposed. This leads to higher noise and the D500 seems especially prone to this. I use Nikon Capture as my raw converter and use it's NR. Coupled with proper exposure, Capture's NR is usually all I need. I don't like the D500 at ISO's above 1600 as a rule but again, with proper exposure and NR I can get decent results to 3200. Large crops with the D500 only make things worse. The D500 seems best to me at lower ISOs, when properly exposed and the frame is nearly filled.
Click to expand...


Hi Warren,

I do tend to underexpose a little, as I am always worried about the histogram and also I feel I loose contrast and micro-contrast even if I over expose very little. Hence the reason to stay safer by underexposing .. in the process I am inviting a lot of noise, like you said.

Let me get over my fear and try to expose one stop more and see what happens.. I will keep you posted.

Cheers,
Imtiyaz
 
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Replytoken said:
I would say that you are a glutton for punishment.;) Seriously, this is really not a handheld lens. If you want some freedom, use a monopod (and perhaps a monogimbal) or use a tripod with a gimbal. Shooting in low light, handheld, at low shutter speeds is asking for poor IQ. The D500 does not do well underexposed, and the 200-500 does not do well hand held. I know that you cannot control the lighting, but you can stabilize the lens and body, and that will help a lot. Thankfully, a monopod and monogimbal are not too expensive.

--Ken
Click to expand...


Ken,

:) I guess, I am.
Using tripods is challenge in the environs I often shoot. I live in Bangalore, India. Although we have reasonable number of lakes (thankfully) in my city.. there are always people around. With monopods I tend to spook the birds when I am photographing them. The monogimbals are not available in India anyway, I guess.
I often shoot unprepared.. most of the time from my balcony. While I am at work, I hear the noise of the aircraft I pick my camera that is almost always sitting next to me , step out of the balcony, shoot and come back to my computer... :)

Cheers,
Imtiyaz
 
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Imtiaz said:
With a D500 + 200-500 ... i tried shooting helicopters but with shutter speed ranging between 1/125 to 1/250.. that does not seem to be enough to get a disc of the propellers.
Click to expand...

Don't forget if you are in aperture priority the camera will be changing your shutter speed. Also if using exposure compensation + EC to get a better exposure if the plane is more above you will also slow the shutter.

I've got some shots of a helicopter at 1/320 that gives a good blur to the blades. Not a disc admittedly, but I prefer being able to see the blades are moving rather than just a disc.

Your issue will be that there is no magic bullet shutter speed as the rotational speed will vary with the size of the blades, the engine, amount of feathering etc. I guess that if you shoot enough different types over the years you will probably be able to write a book on how to do it, or maybe not.

What do you mean by junk pictures using RAW? Subject not in the frame? We need a bit more info!
 
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Hi Graham,

I shoot manual or on shutter priority.
Almost always I am on auto ISO.

Yes.. i need to know the aircraft to establish my shutter speed to get the disc.
So Helos (the large russian ones that Indian Air Force often use for training) go down to 1/60 where as for turboprobs (like AN132) 1/125 would be good enough.

As you said.. the only way to get better at it is .. to shoot more and more...

Cheers,
Imtiyaz
 
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Imtiaz said:
Hi Warren,

I do tend to underexpose a little, as I am always worried about the histogram and also I feel I loose contrast and micro-contrast even if I over expose very little. Hence the reason to stay safer by underexposing .. in the process I am inviting a lot of noise, like you said.

Let me get over my fear and try to expose one stop more and see what happens.. I will keep you posted.

Cheers,
Imtiyaz
Click to expand...
If you shoot raw, push the histogram to the right and learn how much highlight recovery you have in post processing. IMHO, highlight recovery is preferred to shadow recovery as you have more data to work with.

--Ken
 
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Imtiaz said:
Ken,

:) I guess, I am.
Using tripods is challenge in the environs I often shoot. I live in Bangalore, India. Although we have reasonable number of lakes (thankfully) in my city.. there are always people around. With monopods I tend to spook the birds when I am photographing them. The monogimbals are not available in India anyway, I guess.
I often shoot unprepared.. most of the time from my balcony. While I am at work, I hear the noise of the aircraft I pick my camera that is almost always sitting next to me , step out of the balcony, shoot and come back to my computer... :)

Cheers,
Imtiyaz
Click to expand...
I completely understand the desire to have a camera ready at will. But then I would say that the 200-500 is not the lens for that type of shooting. The 500PF is, but it is also more expensive. Not sure what else I can suggest other than a m4/3rd's body with a physically smaller lens.

--Ken
 
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I shoot the same camera and lens (D500/200-500mm) and when I am shooting Hummingbirds I shoot at a shutter of at 1/2000 to get the wings to freeze and I always use a monopod or tripod with that setup. It's just too heavy not to get a shakey image (except maybe at a really fast shutter speed).

Try this: Set the mode to S (shutter priority) and set to 1/2000 (give or take!) and set your ISO to auto. Shoot RAW ....I bet the aircraft images will come out a lot better. Also, shoot burst mode, that will also help. Digital images are free! Take as many as you like!
 
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Andrew Lamberson said:
I shoot the same camera and lens (D500/200-500mm) and when I am shooting Hummingbirds I shoot at a shutter of at 1/2000 to get the wings to freeze and I always use a monopod or tripod with that setup. It's just too heavy not to get a shakey image (except maybe at a really fast shutter speed).

Try this: Set the mode to S (shutter priority) and set to 1/2000 (give or take!) and set your ISO to auto. Shoot RAW ....I bet the aircraft images will come out a lot better. Also, shoot burst mode, that will also help. Digital images are free! Take as many as you like!
Click to expand...

That is what I do Andrew.
I need increase my exposure a little as you guys are saying.

Cheers,
Imtiyaz
 
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I am 72 and hand hold the vast majority of the time. I have a tripod with Wimberly gimbal head that has sat in my closet for over two years. My BIF opportunities occur without notice and in places I need to change locations height above the ground etc. quickly so a tripod does not fit me but it does others. With VR on and proper hand holding techique the 200-500 on a D500 should be easily hand held unless you have medical or other issues. I think of the 200-500 (2300g) as a light lens and the early copy I had was sent back to Nikon 3 times before the panning focus issues were corrected (3rd time was a recall), compared to Sigma 60-600mm sport (2700g) I use on my D6. I use a Tamron 150-600 G2 (1990g) on my gripped (with the D6 battery) D500 for birds in flight and other bird photography and found that I prefered the extra reach and focus speed and panning to the 200-500 I had. I hold my camera/long lens like a target rifle or shotgun with that type of stance and it is supported to pan by pivoting my body not moving my arms. I also use a Nikon 500mm pf (1460g) and it is very light and convenient to carry, great image quality and fast focusing (but only slightly faster on my D6 than the Sigma 60-600 sport especially if you use the focal distance limit switch. My only complaint with the 500 pf is that it is too light to use the weight of the lens for stability ... target rifles frequently have heavy bull barrels to put the weight balance to the front . If you rest the weight of the lens in your hand not gripping it and your elbow is tucked into your body supporting the lens it can be very stable. As mentioned before showing movement at slow shutter speeds is a challenge, and takes practice, besides birds another good subject is a person moving fast on a pedal or motor bike ... focus on the eye and pan. FYI I use manual with auto ISO never shutter priority because I want to control my depth of field. So have fun and as noted earlier move that histogram to the right, and practice how you hand hold and move your body to pan.
 
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@Imtiaz I forgot to share these ... we had a fun motion blur slow shutter speed and panning as an assigned photo subject in our camera club last year ... here are some of my shots.
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