Nextlife1
Active member
Just curious if you have ever used the 800mm PF to compare the two?
I love shooting 800mm. Should I add a used F 800mm f5.6?
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RoyC
Active member
No, I do have the 600 PF and use it a great deal when I want a walk about long lens. Unless I have missed something the IQ resolution the 800 5.6 is still king and on birds feather detail has to be great.
maxxus46
Well-known member
Going from a state of the art 5.2lb lens to a 10lb lens for 1/3rd stop isn't going to make any difference In your photography, but the weight and size difference will have a negative impact in your ability to react quickly or hand hold . In the field I have found no advantage between f5.6 vs f6.3, especially so with modern mirrorless cameras that focus at much smaller aperture. This had a bigger impact in the DSLR days, but now? It's irrelevant. Now if you said you needed F4 for low light situations, then the 600 F4 gives you that, but at less reach. Good luck on your choice
Nextlife1
Active member
Agreed—at least for my use case. I can understand why certain shooting styles don’t need flexibility, such as when RoyC talks about staking out a Grizzly kill across a river. But I don’t do that. A more typical example for me is birding the roads around Corcovado NP in the Osa Peninsula with Dennis Valverde—in this case getting the shot often requires the ability to get out of the vehicle very quickly and shoot. I can say from personal experience that this is next to impossible with the 800/5.6 but very easy with the 800 PF. For me a 1/3 of a stop is a nice to have, but getting the shot is a must have.
Nextlife1
Active member
“King” is relative. If you had shot the 800 PF and compared it to the 800/5.6, and found that you just couldn’t tolerate the difference, then I would agree that the 800/5.6 is “king” for you. Or if you don’t need the flexibility the 800 PF allows. On the other hand if you did that you might be surprised, as no doubt many of us former 800/5.6 users have been. YMMV.
maxxus46
Well-known member
I would love to see Steve test these two monster 800mm lenses in the future? I think the 800pf would win out where it matters most
I'd say go for it. I have multiple lenses with the same focal lengths and find that each makes a different image, I interact with them differently and enjoy the output from all lenses I keep.
fcotterill
Well-known member
In mid 2022, a few days experience confirmed beyond doubt that each prime is an excellent optic. However, I was still curious to compare both 800mm Nikkors intensively under field conditions; although my primary question was to test the respective Teleconverter combinations. I've learned here in Africa that too often when unique situations / opportunities happen, a 1120mm or 1600mm is essential to capture unique events, interactions especially.
You can also enjoy scrolling through the dedicated compilations on the FM forum and Flicka for impressive examples from both of the 800mm prime Nikkors
bcgforums.com
You can also enjoy scrolling through the dedicated compilations on the FM forum and Flicka for impressive examples from both of the 800mm prime Nikkors
Comparisons: 800mm f5.6E FL and 800mm f6.3S PF Nikkors
Here follow a selection of images taken over the past several months with both lenses, with/without their respective teleconverters. I have built up a sizeable database since mid 2022, when time and conditions permitted. I took all these primarily with the aim of trying to define the...
bcgforums.com
Official 800PF image and discussion thread - Nikon-mount SLRs - Photography - FM Forums
Join the Nikon-mount SLRs photography discussion: Just pick my up today and ran to a park near my apartment for a quick test. All shot handheld. I adjust the pictures in PS but did not apply any noise reductio
www.fredmiranda.com
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Asafser
Member
I don’t own the 600 tc (do own the 800pf and love it!) , but it probably have an edge over the 800pf in term of bokeh at 840mm ,see
Best Super-Telephoto Lenses for Nikon Z Cameras: 8 Tested - Page 4 of 6
photographylife.com
Brad Hill did find the 600tc copy he tested to be a bit sharper than
The 800pf at ~800mm
Look the bottom:
Natural Art Images: Brad Hill: Stuff I Use Part II: Lenses
Camera gear and related accessories regularly used by Brad Hill in the field. Part II - Lenses I currently use or have used.
www.naturalart.ca
He also, found the 600tc to preform better with stacked 1.4 tcs ( external and internal) than with a 2x tc. I don’t know how this stacked tc’s combo will preform against a 800E+ 1.25TC, but (considering you have the right conditions & atmospherics ) you will also have the benefit of switching between 840 and 1176 instantly if those focal lengths are important to you (I guess part of your desire for the 800E is the 1.25 TC optional combination, right ?).
If I were you I would consider spending/ saving those 6 grand on a future 600tc. And even consider selling the pf to mitigate the hefty $$$.
The pf is more handhold friendly than the 600tc for sure obviously, but if you can manage the 600TC physically and financially than it will give 2+2 lenses in one (600+840 and maybe 840+1200 if that combo is indeed good enough)
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I agree with the above sentiments, but it obviously depends on what you shoot. I shoot at 600mm and 840mm most of the time for the birding I do here in Australia and so, my weapon of choice is the Z 600 TC. Backing up Brad's thoughts on his Blog with regards to the stacked TC's, here is a test shot of the Z 600 TC + internal 1.4 TC engaged and external 1.4x TC as well for a "1176mm". I put it in quotation marks because I would really like to know the exact focal length multiplier for these TC's. Are they actually 1.4x or 1.414x which is square root 2 by which the aperture series is based due to the fact apertures are based on the area of a lens, not the diameter. 1.414 x 1.414 = 2 (obviously) which is the equivalent of the 2x TC. A discussion for another day and one which I would need to test out between the 1.4 and 2x TC. If the 2 x 1.4x TC's = the 2x TC then we have our answer.I don’t own the 600 tc (do own the 800pf and love it!) , but it probably have an edge over the 800pf in term of bokeh at 840mm ,see
Best Super-Telephoto Lenses for Nikon Z Cameras: 8 Tested - Page 4 of 6
Brad Hill did find the 600tc copy he tested to be a bit sharper than
The 800pf at ~800mm
Look the bottom:
Natural Art Images: Brad Hill: Stuff I Use Part II: Lenses
Camera gear and related accessories regularly used by Brad Hill in the field. Part II - Lenses I currently use or have used.
He also, found the 600tc to preform better with stacked 1.4 tcs ( external and internal) than with a 2x tc. I don’t know how this stacked tc’s combo will preform against a 800E+ 1.25TC, but (considering you have the right conditions & atmospherics ) you will also have the benefit of switching between 840 and 1176 instantly if those focal lengths are important to you (I guess part of your desire for the 800E is the 1.25 TC optional combination, right ?).
If I were you I would consider spending/ saving those 6 grand on a future 600tc. And even consider selling the pf to mitigate the hefty $$$.
The pf is more handhold friendly than the 600tc for sure obviously, but if you can manage the 600TC physically and financially than it will give 2+2 lenses in one (600+840 and maybe 840+1200 if that combo is indeed good enough)
Z9 + Z 600TC + 1.4x tC + 1.4x TC, 1/1250s f/8.0 at 1176.0mm iso8000
Z9 + Z 600TC + 1.4x tC + 1.4x TC, 1/800s f/8.0 at 1176.0mm iso5000
Dionigi Colombo
Well-known member
I had a friend's 800E and 800Pf at the same time to make comparisons, in short the 800 pf was resold soon after
As we all know the downside of the 800E is the weight, handheld you can only use it for a few moments
The Pf is less contrasty and somewhat less resolving than the 800E, also the blur is less pleasing
The details that the 800E returns are better than those of the 800Pf, on subject such as bears or birds the differences could be seen
At long distances to date the 800E is perhaps still the best lens, or at least on par with the 600z with Tc.
One does not buy the 800E for 1/3 stop more, but for its excellent quality
As we all know the downside of the 800E is the weight, handheld you can only use it for a few moments
The Pf is less contrasty and somewhat less resolving than the 800E, also the blur is less pleasing
The details that the 800E returns are better than those of the 800Pf, on subject such as bears or birds the differences could be seen
At long distances to date the 800E is perhaps still the best lens, or at least on par with the 600z with Tc.
One does not buy the 800E for 1/3 stop more, but for its excellent quality
Thanks for the direct, hands on comparison. Very valuable information.
maxxus46
Well-known member
That is remarkable IQ considering the stacked TCs. Great depth and details...I agree with the above sentiments, but it obviously depends on what you shoot. I shoot at 600mm and 840mm most of the time for the birding I do here in Australia and so, my weapon of choice is the Z 600 TC. Backing up Brad's thoughts on his Blog with regards to the stacked TC's, here is a test shot of the Z 600 TC + internal 1.4 TC engaged and external 1.4x TC as well for a "1176mm". I put it in quotation marks because I would really like to know the exact focal length multiplier for these TC's. Are they actually 1.4x or 1.414x which is square root 2 by which the aperture series is based due to the fact apertures are based on the area of a lens, not the diameter. 1.414 x 1.414 = 2 (obviously) which is the equivalent of the 2x TC. A discussion for another day and one which I would need to test out between the 1.4 and 2x TC. If the 2 x 1.4x TC's = the 2x TC then we have our answer.
Z9 + Z 600TC + 1.4x tC + 1.4x TC, 1/1250s f/8.0 at 1176.0mm iso8000
Z9 + Z 600TC + 1.4x tC + 1.4x TC, 1/800s f/8.0 at 1176.0mm iso5000
fcotterill
Well-known member
It's challenging to describe these subtle differences, but 800E bokeh is sublime
Its advantages stand out particularly in lowlight, backlit conditions etc
The extremely high New prices of exotic telephotos buys significantly more than the best of Nikon's proprietary lens coatings to control flare and maximize light transmission. Consider the actual glass types specified by the engineers. The advantages of the E FL and S Line TC-Telephotos extend quite possibly to the undisclosed chemical formulae (thus refractive properties) of different glasses. These are effectively bespoke optical elements specified in the design by the engineers based on costly R&D.One does not buy the 800E for 1/3 stop more, but for its excellent quality
Nikon does not need to disclose its proprietary secrets, particularly considering the optical engineers designing a specific lens might use specific types of Hikari glass: besides fluorite and "ExtraLow Dispersion (ED)" . It's interesting how the NeoNoct patent confirms that what Nikon marketing copy calls "ED" represents no less than 4 different types of optical glass. However their differences aren't shown in official lens cross sections (Links below)
As @wotan1 says, one buys into the stratosphere of optical quality owning a 800mm f5.6E FL Nikkor + TC125....
Of course each the 800E has its bespoke TC125 with matching serial #, and a skilled craftsman in Nikon Tochigi has assembled and checked each copy. [Edited]
600 TC and 600 PF - which or both, why?
Choices, choices, ... which 600 will be part of your kit?
bcgforums.com
Brad Hill's exhaustive tests have begun: 180-600, 600PF, 150-500
It seems to me that we can get caught up in reviews and second guess the performance of a lens we love. We are looking for the affirmation the we made a smart purchase. I see that in a lot of forums. At this point I find reviews interesting and informative but I usually try to read those before...
bcgforums.com
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Serious points.It's challenging to describe these subtle differences, but 800E bokeh is sublime
It's advantages stand out in lowlight, backlit conditions etc
The extremely high New prices of exotic telephotos buys significantly more than the best of Nikon's proprietary lens coatings to control flare and maximize light transmission. The advantages of the E FL and S Line TC-Telephotos extend quite possibly to the undisclosed chemical formulae (thus refractive properties) of what are effectively bespoke optical elements specified in the design.
Nikon does not need to disclose its proprietary secrets, particularly considering the optical engineers can order specific types of Hikari glass, besides fluorite and ExtraLow Dispersion. In fact, the NeoNoct patent confirms what marketing copy calls "ED" might represent 2 or more different types of optical glass, but these differences aren't shown in official lens cross sections (Links below)
So @wotan1 one buys into the stratosphere of optical quality owning a 800mm f5.6E FL Nikkor + TC125
Of course each the 800E has its bespoke TC125 with matching serial #, and a skilled craftsman assembled and checked each copy.
Brad Hill's exhaustive tests have begun: 180-600, 600PF, 150-500
It seems to me that we can get caught up in reviews and second guess the performance of a lens we love. We are looking for the affirmation the we made a smart purchase. I see that in a lot of forums. At this point I find reviews interesting and informative but I usually try to read those before...
I do love exquisitely high IQ optics.
These thoughts are exactly why I asked this question.
fcotterill
Well-known member
I remembered these photos of a skilled technician assembling a 800 f5.6E in the Tochigi factory
bcgforums.com
600 TC and 600 PF - which or both, why?
Choices, choices, ... which 600 will be part of your kit?
bcgforums.com
The siren call of an exotic lens. If funding this is not an issue, then it sounds like you have your answer. If funding is a substantial issue, you could rent one to try it out for the thrill. If funding is somewhat of an issue, then buy a used copy, use it for as long as it brings you pleasure, then sell it. The difference between your buy and sell will be your price.
Good luck,
--Ken
I noticed that it's on sale at Nikonusa refurbished for $11735. 10% off the sale refurbished price.
I am probably going to rent one first just to see the difference for myself. I am also not going to buy a refurbished Nikon unit. I should be able to find one of these used for about $6k which is a lot less than either of the Z TC lenses.
This has been an interesting discussion.
This has been an interesting discussion.
Silly Yes ... but nothing wrong with that.
Like @Lance B my mobile ID birding photography is served well by the versatility of the Z600 f/4 TC. IQ is a bit better than my Z800 f/6.3 was but pixel peeping difference except for some background foreground rendering. The difference for me is AF speed but mostly versatility of flipping a switch and going form 600 f/4 to 800 f/5.6 without ever taking my eye from the viewfinder. With the Z800 f/6.3 I found myself carrying double a lot (with Z100-400 or Z600 f/6.3) but now I do not have to.
I owned the 600 f/4E and it was a very good lens but a logistical challenge. I never owned the 800 f/5.6 only saw and handled the lens when being used by others. It was a huge beast and I went with the 600 f/4E instead.
Like @Lance B my mobile ID birding photography is served well by the versatility of the Z600 f/4 TC. IQ is a bit better than my Z800 f/6.3 was but pixel peeping difference except for some background foreground rendering. The difference for me is AF speed but mostly versatility of flipping a switch and going form 600 f/4 to 800 f/5.6 without ever taking my eye from the viewfinder. With the Z800 f/6.3 I found myself carrying double a lot (with Z100-400 or Z600 f/6.3) but now I do not have to.
I owned the 600 f/4E and it was a very good lens but a logistical challenge. I never owned the 800 f/5.6 only saw and handled the lens when being used by others. It was a huge beast and I went with the 600 f/4E instead.
Drbobcameraguy
Active member
I have a 300-800mm f5.6 Sigma. It's my favorite lens. I also have a gitzo tripod and a gimbal so I can use it because it's heavy. Other than that I can't answer the question. Lol
cchuck
ChuckCarlson
Take the $6k and put it into your 600 TC fund. If the urge hits you again, stick the second $6k into the fund and then you'll have enough to take a shot at a used 600 TC, which will get you more than 800mm at 5.6 plus you'll have a 600 f4 as a bonus.
MarkB
Active member
I had the 800 f5.6 for several years and then decided to sell it to finance my move to mirrorless (800 6.3 PF and Z8). At the time I sold mine I almost covered that cost.
One reason for selling, other than moving to mirrorless, was the weight; its heavy, I'm getting older (64) and the weight of it on my big tripod with Wimberley was hurting my shoulder to carry it around. I'd often walk 2 or 3 miles with it over my shoulder as I photographed birds in various areas.
I do really miss that lens, it is very sharp and a tad faster than my 800 PF. If you can deal with the weight and using an FTZ, then it's better than the 800 PF, without any doubt. The blue heron is with the 800 f5.6, the sandhill crane with the 800 PF
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macwalter
Well-known member
I do not own either but for me I can’t imagine why I’d want to spend 6k on an older lens when you have the 800pf which I understand is a superb lens with half the weight. I would use that money for another lens that would add more variety in terms of options.
What I am looking for is super prime lens performance. that means either 400mm f2.8 tc, 600 f4 tc or F mount 800 5.6.