Ideal focal length for spring warblers on territory?

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GrandNagus50

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I am signed up for a five-day trip through southern Ohio two weeks from now that focuses on photographing spring warblers. I am assuming that these will be newly arrived males on territory. For this kind of photography, what do people think the ideal focal length might be? Would the Nikon 800mm f6.3 be overkill? It focuses closer than the f5.6 version but it's still a lot of lens. Has anyone been on this type of trip previously? Any tips?
 
No, 800mm is not overkill and would be my choice for warblers. The MFD would be the biggest limitation of the 800PF, so the 600TC might be the better lens -- but you'll be shooting it mostly at 840 with the TC engaged IMO.
 
When I went to Ohio for warblers last year I started out with an 80-400 on my CROP SENSOR D500 but changed up to my longest lens, a 500PF within the first 1/2 hour and never looked back. All the warblers are pretty small birds.
 
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No, 800mm is not overkill and would be my choice for warblers. The MFD would be the biggest limitation of the 800PF, so the 600TC might be the better lens -- but you'll be shooting it mostly at 840 with the TC engaged IMO.
I confess that I (still) own a 600 f4, which I am guessing many people would say is standard for this type of photography. But it's far from the new, lightweight TC version, it's the two generations old G VR lens that weighs over ten pounds. As someone getting up there in age, I now think twice before taking this lens out in the field in situations where I will have to tote it any distance. I probably should sell it and then get on the waiting list for the new lens.
 
That's so exciting that you're going on a dedicated birding trip! Hope you see a lot of action! Absolutely the best time of year to be a bird photographer, right?

In my experience over the past few years, 500mm on the D500 was just about ideal for me, so that 700-800 range gives you good reach but not too much. The 800PF would seem like the natural successor to that vaunted setup, and seeing as this is my first warbler season w/ the 800PF, I'll have a better idea here in a few weeks if it's cut out for this task. That MFD does concern me a little, so I have the 400 + 1.4 as backup if I'm able to get closer. Ideally, would love a 600 TC, on the Z9 it'd be so versatile for warblers!

Saw my first warblers of the season the other day! Here's a shot from the 800PF w/ no crop, posting to show results at distance (bird was about 25 feet away). This isn't a photo I'll keep, as it was a spur-of-the-moment shot when this female Yellow-rumped appeared from out of nowhere as I was returning to my car as the light was about gone. I'm just happy to see them back again :)
NIKON Z 9untitled_20230411_26-NEF_DxO_DeepPRIMEXD-2.jpg
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The long lens is ideal -- 800mm great, 600mm f4 greater! I have neither, as of yet! Last spring I used 500mm PF with and without 1.4 tele on Z9 depending on need for light. If looking for ground-dwelling warblers, such as Ovenbird, Kentucky Warbler, Swainson's Warbler, and Waterthrushes, you will appreciate f5.6 or brighter. There's always the chance you will get a stationary bird on the ground and you can stretch the shutter speed at f8. Switching to crop-mode helps -- a friend with A1 and 600mm f4 GM used Crop-mode exclusively. Warblers are great fun! Good luck! And there are also larger migrants that are stunning.
 
Thanks for the answers so far.
I actually went out to a local hotspot a few days ago (the parking lot of a Target store, if you can believe it) with the Z9 and 800pf, and I found that the testosterone-driven male Audubon's warblers (I never believed in the lumping with Myrtle) came in so close that they barely fit in the full-frame viewfinder (attached). I do think this is the exception, however. Mostly, these tiny birds are not all that close. As for low light, my colleagues in Colombia in January seemed to think nothing of shooting at ISO 12800, thanks to the new generation of noise reduction software. I actually rarely use crop mode for my bird photography, as using the full frame makes locating a small bird in foliage much easier. Cropping in post is easy. I suppose I could/should either bring both the 500pf and 800pf, or else do some last-minute weight training and bring the 600. It is nice to have choices, I confess. I was and remain curious about what my fellow photographers use and do.
AudubonN800PFa.jpg
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Thanks for the answers so far.
I actually went out to a local hotspot a few days ago (the parking lot of a Target store, if you can believe it) with the Z9 and 800pf, and I found that the testosterone-driven male Audubon's warblers (I never believed in the lumping with Myrtle) came in so close that they barely fit in the full-frame viewfinder (attached). I do think this is the exception, however. Mostly, these tiny birds are not all that close. As for low light, my colleagues in Colombia in January seemed to think nothing of shooting at ISO 12800, thanks to the new generation of noise reduction software. I actually rarely use crop mode for my bird photography, as using the full frame makes locating a small bird in foliage much easier. Cropping in post is easy. I suppose I could/should either bring both the 500pf and 800pf, or else do some last-minute weight training and bring the 600. It is nice to have choices, I confess. I was and remain curious about what my fellow photographers use and do.
View attachment 58968
Target parking lot birding.. I guess they like what they like :ROFLMAO: Great capture, and I'd agree, they don't belong w/ the Myrtle sub-species!

This is why we need Sony 200-600s... that lens, plus the Olympus 150-400, have my interest piqued. When you're at the perfect distance w/ a prime, it's unbeatable, but more often than not you aren't.
 
This is a cool calculator to show the field of view for different focal lengths for different distances for various sensor sizes. How close will you get?

 
The ideal lens really depends on distance, lighting, and subject size. For the warblers and other song birds they are small so focal length is always handy however if shooting in forest and not a lot of light I would want a faster lens than 6.3 or even 5.6. It will also help with separation of the background as you will likely have a lot of sticks to deal with.

For me the choice is a 600F4 with no tele. Here are a few from last weekend and all shot with a 600F4 wide open. Very minimal crop on the images. I could have made 800 work but I wasn't willing to give up anymore shutter speed or have increased iso.

https://bcgforums.com/index.php?threads/prothonotary-warbler.22991/
 
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The idea lens really depends on distance, lighting, and subject size. For the warblers and other song birds they are small so focal length is always handy however if shooting in forest and not a lot of light I would want a faster lens than 6.3 or even 5.6. It will also help with separation of the background as you will likely have a lot of sticks to deal with.

For me the choice is a 600F4 with no tele. Here are a few from last weekend and all shot with a 600F4 wide open. Very minimal crop on the images. I could have made 800 work but I wasn't willing to give up anymore shutter speed or have increased iso.

https://bcgforums.com/index.php?threads/prothonotary-warbler.22991/
I have noticed that among the photographers who kind of specialize in warblers the 600mm f4 seems fairly standard. The Nikon 600 f4 TC would be perfect, but alas, I don't have that lens. Like I said, I do own the heavier 600 f4 G VR, and probably I should suck it up and bring that lens to Ohio, along with one or more TC's. If I still own it, I should use it, right?
 
I have noticed that among the photographers who kind of specialize in warblers the 600mm f4 seems fairly standard. The Nikon 600 f4 TC would be perfect, but alas, I don't have that lens. Like I said, I do own the heavier 600 f4 G VR, and probably I should suck it up and bring that lens to Ohio, along with one or more TC's. If I still own it, I should use it, right?
I would. If you can take both you might as well. Do you know the environment you will be shooting in?
 
The ideal lens really depends on distance, lighting, and subject size. For the warblers and other song birds they are small so focal length is always handy however if shooting in forest and not a lot of light I would want a faster lens than 6.3 or even 5.6. It will also help with separation of the background as you will likely have a lot of sticks to deal with.

For me the choice is a 600F4 with no tele. Here are a few from last weekend and all shot with a 600F4 wide open. Very minimal crop on the images. I could have made 800 work but I wasn't willing to give up anymore shutter speed or have increased iso.

https://bcgforums.com/index.php?threads/prothonotary-warbler.22991/
Congrats on the Prothonotary, David. Probably my favorite Warbler, if I had to choose :) Their nickname "Swamp Candle" is well deserved, they absolutely glow in the dim surroundings. Where were you at that you got to see Prothos? I'm going on a solo-camping/birding trip next month, and the spot is supposed to have Prothos, so I'm really looking forward to seeing them again.

A 600 f/4 is probably ideal, but the weight gets to me after a while, and I don't do well trying to photograph warblers from a tripod since they're always on the go. Thus, I made the choice a few years ago to give up some ISO and put my trust in the f/5.6 (and now f/6.3) in exchange for less weight + more maneuverability. Yet, it's crazy that I'm even entertaining the idea of going back to the 600 f/4 (TC), but that versatility is worth the weight penalty again.
 
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Congrats on the Prothonotary, David. Probably my favorite Warbler, if I had to choose :) Their nickname "Swamp Candle" is well deserved, they absolutely glow in the dim surroundings. Where were you at that you got to see Prothos?

A 600 f/4 is probably ideal, but the weight gets to me after a while, and I don't do well trying to photograph warblers from a tripod since they're always on the go. Thus, I made the choice a few years ago to give up some ISO and put my trust in the f/5.6 (and now f/6.3) in exchange for less weight + more maneuverability. Yet, it's crazy that I'm even entertaining the idea of going back to the 600 f/4 (TC), but that versatility is worth the weight penalty again.
I shot these specific ones at Mineola Nature Preserve about an hour from my house in east TX.

I also shoot handheld for song birds. A tripod just is too slow for dynamic subjects. This is one reason I went with Sony is their 400 and 600 (I have both) are so light when compared to the older Nikon and Canon 600F4 lenses. The new Z mount is only slightly heavier than the Sony but also has the built in TC. I suspect everyone upgrading at some point as that lens is a real game changer.
 
Thanks for the answers so far.
I actually went out to a local hotspot a few days ago (the parking lot of a Target store, if you can believe it) with the Z9 and 800pf, and I found that the testosterone-driven male Audubon's warblers (I never believed in the lumping with Myrtle) came in so close that they barely fit in the full-frame viewfinder (attached). I do think this is the exception, however. Mostly, these tiny birds are not all that close. As for low light, my colleagues in Colombia in January seemed to think nothing of shooting at ISO 12800, thanks to the new generation of noise reduction software. I actually rarely use crop mode for my bird photography, as using the full frame makes locating a small bird in foliage much easier. Cropping in post is easy. I suppose I could/should either bring both the 500pf and 800pf, or else do some last-minute weight training and bring the 600. It is nice to have choices, I confess. I was and remain curious about what my fellow photographers use and do.
View attachment 58968
If I had a shot this nice, I wouldn't throw it away! LOL! I look forward to your keepers!!!!! ;)
 
I am signed up for a five-day trip through southern Ohio two weeks from now that focuses on photographing spring warblers. I am assuming that these will be newly arrived males on territory. For this kind of photography, what do people think the ideal focal length might be? Would the Nikon 800mm f6.3 be overkill? It focuses closer than the f5.6 version but it's still a lot of lens. Has anyone been on this type of trip previously? Any tips?
800mm is not too long for warblers, which are small birds, so the extra length is useful. However (and it’s a big however), warblers are very active, and flit about frequently, so your challenge with the 800 mm will be to find and keep them in your viewfinder. Even with a 500mm f5.6, I sometimes find it challenging to acquire and maintain focus on warblers. If I were in your shoes, I‘d be more inclined to rely upon the 200-500 focal length, but take the 800 as a backup lens. You may have better luck than me in targeting birds, but I’m not sure that I’d be able to use a 800mm effectively for quick moving warblers.
 
This is why we need Sony 200-600s... that lens, plus the Olympus 150-400, have my interest piqued. When you're at the perfect distance w/ a prime, it's unbeatable, but more often than not you aren't.

Agreed !!! The longest zoom you can get is the best lens for what you'll be doing. My choice would be the Olympus 100-400mm perhaps with the 1.4X teleconverter. Those little birds seldom sit still and are hard to find in a long prime lens, it's much easier/faster to zoom out, find the bird and then zoom in -- if it hasn't moved. You also need a light lens that's easy to handle; that's one of the reasons I prefer Olympus, the 100-400mm is the equal of a 200-800mm in full frame at a fraction of the weight (and cost), add the teleconverter and you're up to 1120mm in full frame.
 
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I confess that I (still) own a 600 f4, which I am guessing many people would say is standard for this type of photography. But it's far from the new, lightweight TC version, it's the two generations old G VR lens that weighs over ten pounds. As someone getting up there in age, I now think twice before taking this lens out in the field in situations where I will have to tote it any distance. I probably should sell it and then get on the waiting list for the new lens.

I sold my 600 FL E a couple of years ago when I switched to Sony for video...at the time it was considered a "light-weight" lens but no longer. Now that I'm back shooting Nikon, I'm considering both the 800PF and 600TC, but am hesitant to re-purchase the the 600 due to the weight even though I know it's a lot lighter than my old 600. The 5.25lb 800pf is mighty tempting but then I once owned the Canon 800L and learned to hate the 6m MFD. Perfection is elusive! ;)
 
I have noticed that among the photographers who kind of specialize in warblers the 600mm f4 seems fairly standard. The Nikon 600 f4 TC would be perfect, but alas, I don't have that lens. Like I said, I do own the heavier 600 f4 G VR, and probably I should suck it up and bring that lens to Ohio, along with one or more TC's. If I still own it, I should use it, right?
That's largely because the 800mm PF has such limited availability. The 600 f/4 was my preferred choice as well - with or without a TC. But it requires a tripod and gimbal which compromises mobility. The 800mm PF is awfully good as an alternative.

Of course this morning, I was out with the 400mm f/4.5 with the 1.4 TC and DX crop mode on my Z7ii. That's a field of view equivalent of 840mm which is tough at times. But - the kit is light enough to handhold or hike long distances.
 
Great information. I'm thinking about going there next year.........which probably means I need to make campground reservations for our 5th wheel SOON! If anyone can recommend a good campground for a 40' 5th wheel, let me know. Thanks!
 
I would. If you can take both you might as well. Do you know the environment you will be shooting in?
Not totally sure, but "woods" mostly. We were warned about mosquitoes and ticks. Some of these warblers are canopy feeders, so getting them down to where they can be photographed will be a challenge. I have previously photographed spring warblers at Magee and at Jim Stevenson's property in Galveston. These are very different situations, where the birds can be counted on to come in close. For Magee, a 500 pf is pretty ideal. In this upcoming situation, I just am not sure. I will add here that our leader is emphasizing using tripods, partly to counter the tendency for photographers to swing their lenses quickly in response to a perched bird. This spooks the bird, and the phenomenon is compounded when there are several photographers involved. My concern about toting a heavy 600 f4 relates to how much hiking we will have to do. I am not sure about this.
 
Not totally sure, but "woods" mostly. We were warned about mosquitoes and ticks. Some of these warblers are canopy feeders, so getting them down to where they can be photographed will be a challenge. I have previously photographed spring warblers at Magee and at Jim Stevenson's property in Galveston. These are very different situations, where the birds can be counted on to come in close. For Magee, a 500 pf is pretty ideal. In this upcoming situation, I just am not sure. I will add here that our leader is emphasizing using tripods, partly to counter the tendency for photographers to swing their lenses quickly in response to a perched bird. This spooks the bird, and the phenomenon is compounded when there are several photographers involved. My concern about toting a heavy 600 f4 relates to how much hiking we will have to do. I am not sure about this.
I would take it and if you don't use it no loss. A monopod can be a good balance vs using a tripod. A gimbal head would be rather handy as well and lighter.
 
Not totally sure, but "woods" mostly. We were warned about mosquitoes and ticks. Some of these warblers are canopy feeders, so getting them down to where they can be photographed will be a challenge. I have previously photographed spring warblers at Magee and at Jim Stevenson's property in Galveston. These are very different situations, where the birds can be counted on to come in close. For Magee, a 500 pf is pretty ideal. In this upcoming situation, I just am not sure. I will add here that our leader is emphasizing using tripods, partly to counter the tendency for photographers to swing their lenses quickly in response to a perched bird. This spooks the bird, and the phenomenon is compounded when there are several photographers involved. My concern about toting a heavy 600 f4 relates to how much hiking we will have to do. I am not sure about this.
As I understand it, most tour leaders locate the warblers and setup perches ahead of time then call the warblers if and as needed, so they should be able to recommend optimum equipment to suit the situations.
 
On the other side of the pond, different hemisphere, my ideal system for small passerines comprises two lenses. These are a 800 and a 500 PF or 400 f4.5S+ZTC14. Many of the warblers occurring in the Afrotropical realm are Palearctic migrants from the N hemisphere, and most of the species prefer dense thickets and they often hide within reedbeds. Challenging subjects and approximately the range of overall size of the Neotropical warblers.

Sometimes a bird is within the MFD of the 800, but this is the exception. More often, I need a TC on the 800 to tighten up framing. A couple of examples here
 
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