Is 240 dpi enough for a metal 11”x14” print?

[DsD]

I extend a BIG thank you to all who took the time to advise and educate me about this. Funny but also sad, I’ve been involved with photography for 40 years (off and on) yet haven’t grasped the basics concerning the whole process. Thankful to keep learning though.

 

[ButlerKid]

One tip.....if you picked a certain aspect ration and then wanted to change to a different aspect ratio....it is better to start with the original image......not one that has already by cropped quite a bit. That is because a different aspect ratio might look better with more room on the top of the subject ( or left or right or bottom .....) than the aspect ratio you initially chose. i.e. ........ Various aspect ratios may need a slight change in the position of the subject within the frame.

 

[DsD]

You can have any aspect ratio you want. It's just what will look good and how many pixels you want to throw away. One could say the common ratios are 3:2, 4:3, 5:4, and 1:1 because those are the traditional ones based on whole number fractions. But these days it's all good.

Interesting Bill, as I historically always “free form” cropped to my taste for composition. I realized that any cropping throws away pixels. Never gave any thought to total file size or aspect ratios. Eric got me thinking that I am missing a secret sauce for cooking and serving better images.

 

[DsD]

One tip.....if you picked a certain aspect ration and then wanted to change to a different aspect ratio....it is better to start with the original image......not one that has already by cropped quite a bit. That is because a different aspect ratio might look better with more room on the top of the subject ( or left or right or bottom .....) than the aspect ratio you initially chose. i.e. ........ Various aspect ratios may need a slight change in the position of the subject within the frame.

Thanks for this Karen. Apparently that is one thing I got right. I always reset the image to full size and not recrop the crop.

 

[EricBowles]

Interesting Bill, as I historically always “free form” cropped to my taste for composition. I realized that any cropping throws away pixels. Never gave any thought to total file size or aspect ratios. Eric got me thinking that I am missing a secret sauce for cooking and serving better images.

I'm approaching it from two perspectives. For my own work, I buy standard frames and then customize the mat opening. But printing is always decided first so I an making a final crop and printing to a specific size. I inventory a supply of my most frequently used mats for standard sizes because it's so much cheaper to buy in bulk through FrameUSA or Frame Destination compared to having a single mat cut locally.

I sell a lot of event images, and my online fulfillment service provides a range of popular size options. But when I post images for review after an event, I'm posting a good cropped image that customers will buy - not the entire frame. If I post an 11x14 crop because it looks good, I may end up selling a print that is smaller or larger - and certainly a different proportion. So in some cases, I have to go back to the original, recrop, and substitute the new version to fulfill the order. It's impossible to have a one size fits all approach as even a 3:2 crop may not fit an order for an 8x10 print. On a few occasions I did not have room in the original file for the desired crop, so I ended up adding canvas and stretching the image to fill the space. Content Aware Fill in Photoshop does wonders and can handle filling canvas if needed.

The other thing I encounter when I have to recrop is I may have cloning or other local edits that are outside the original crop but within the crop I ultimately need. I always want to share or post my best work, but if a client wants something different, I need to make that work.

 

[bleirer]

Most print houses, Bay included, will let one adjust the aspect ratio and the crop on the fly, within reason. They've got the RIP software to do it with good quality. I guess I'm old school because I want the ratio I want and it is one of the first choices I make in editing. Though I have gotten mostly done and changed my mind, so I always uncheck the "delete cropped pixels" checkbox.

 

[DsD]

I'm approaching it from two perspectives. For my own work, I buy standard frames and then customize the mat opening. But printing is always decided first so I an making a final crop and printing to a specific size. I inventory a supply of my most frequently used mats for standard sizes because it's so much cheaper to buy in bulk through FrameUSA or Frame Destination compared to having a single mat cut locally.

I sell a lot of event images, and my online fulfillment service provides a range of popular size options. But when I post images for review after an event, I'm posting a good cropped image that customers will buy - not the entire frame. If I post an 11x14 crop because it looks good, I may end up selling a print that is smaller or larger - and certainly a different proportion. So in some cases, I have to go back to the original, recrop, and substitute the new version to fulfill the order. It's impossible to have a one size fits all approach as even a 3:2 crop may not fit an order for an 8x10 print. On a few occasions I did not have room in the original file for the desired crop, so I ended up adding canvas and stretching the image to fill the space. Content Aware Fill in Photoshop does wonders and can handle filling canvas if needed.

The other thing I encounter when I have to recrop is I may have cloning or other local edits that are outside the original crop but within the crop I ultimately need. I always want to share or post my best work, but if a client wants something different, I need to make that work.

Okay, I think I got it Eric. I appreciate you further explaining your process.

Then you are on the same page as the others here … maintaining one aspect ratio doesn’t fit all. Lots of variables to balance; image quality/constraints first, economy of scale factors, client desires etc. So while holding to a strict aspect ratio of the raw image might simplify/ease the potential range of print sizes anticipated , let’s say 3:2 for 12x8, 15x10, 18x12 prints, it can’t address all factors or needs universally.

 

[John Navitsky]

Most print houses, Bay included, will let one adjust the aspect ratio and the crop on the fly, within reason. They've got the RIP software to do it with good quality. I guess I'm old school because I want the ratio I want and it is one of the first choices I make in editing. Though I have gotten mostly done and changed my mind, so I always uncheck the "delete cropped pixels" checkbox.

and they usually will also allow you to trim the physical print to the image border. this is less problematic with metals which typically are using some sort of integral mounting option than with traditional (non custom) framing.

from McKenna Pro's (where i order my metals) faq:

Order the image as the larger print size and mark the box for custom cut. Put the desired finished size in the box directly below this option.

 

[EricBowles]

Okay, I think I got it Eric. I appreciate you further explaining your process.

Then you are on the same page as the others here … maintaining one aspect ratio doesn’t fit all. Lots of variables to balance; image quality/constraints first, economy of scale factors, client desires etc. So while holding to a strict aspect ratio of the raw image might simplify/ease the potential range of print sizes anticipated , let’s say 3:2 for 12x8, 15x10, 18x12 prints, it can’t address all factors or needs universally.

Exactly!

And the camera standard aspect ratio of 3:2 does not match the most popular print aspect ratios of 11x14, 8x10, 16x20, etc. It's complicated.

Framed gallery images have more flexibility and you can choose the sizes you want to offer. But it frequently comes back to economics. I can frame and mat to order in precise sizes, but that turns a $70 cost for a frame and mat into a $300+ cost - and it needs to be marked up to provide a profit margin.

 

[DsD]

Exactly!

And the camera standard aspect ratio of 3:2 does not match the most popular print aspect ratios of 11x14, 8x10, 16x20, etc. It's complicated.

Framed gallery images have more flexibility and you can choose the sizes you want to offer. But it frequently comes back to economics. I can frame and mat to order in precise sizes, but that turns a $70 cost for a frame and mat into a $300+ cost - and it needs to be marked up to provide a profit margin.

Ha! Then Thom is right … Japanese camera companies are not remotely in touch with end user needs or markets.

 

[bleirer]

Between a 1:1 square print and a 2:1 panorama lies literally an infinite number of aspect ratios. I know Bay for one with metal, canvas, acrylic, or paper will let you type in any width and length desired, assuming the image is suited to be cropped to what is entered.

But there is some logic to the more common ratios. Thinking about taking a square as the foundation. Dividing the square into halves and making a rectangle by extending the square by a half gives the 3:2 ratio. Dividing the square into thirds and then extending the square by a third gives the 4:3 ratio. Extending the square by a fourth gives the 5:4 ratio (supposedly the most common one in art).and so on. I don't know how 11x14 got started.

 

[DsD]

Bill, that’s a clear graspable analysis. But the wheel’s didn’t just fall off, they have no wheels for the 11x14 size.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I am with @John Navitsky and use McKenna Pro for my metal prints and have printed in a wide range of sizes. My most common sizes are 11x14 (for small birds) and 16x20 but withe many other sizes including custom cut (which cost more) and I have used a wide range of mounts.

You can call or e mail Kristie at McKenna for excellent advice before you order and many times I include in the order the instructions attentions Kristie and have her dbl check finish etc. overall their quality and service is amazing.

 

[DsD]

I am with @John Navitsky and use McKenna Pro for my metal prints and have printed in a wide range of sizes. My most common sizes are 11x14 (for small birds) and 16x20 but withe many other sizes including custom cut (which cost more) and I have used a wide range of mounts.

You can call or e mail Kristie at McKenna for excellent advice before you order and many times I include in the order the instructions attentions Kristie and have her dbl check finish etc. overall their quality and service is amazing.

Ah, thanks much Ken. I’ll have to check them out. I’ve only printed one small bird (11x17) at home and had it mounted at a local gallery for my brother as a birthday gift. A singing sparrow with a mouth full of a mature stonefly. I liked the size and how it turned out, but it was very pricy. Can’t afford to do that again. lol