Is the D850 noticeably slower at AF than the D500?

[Calson]

I did a series of tests of the D5, D500, and D850 using a 80-400mm and 600mm f/4 lens to photography ospreys in flight. There was not difference in autofocus performance between the D500 and the D850. The D5 was noticeably better at tracking and locking focus when the birds were directly approaching the camera.

Photographing terns I found it much easier to use the wider field of view afforded by the D850. With the D500 the birds were often crowded in the frame and more often this would result in a poor image as a result. With the D850 I had more space around the bird and could make a crop in post and still have a 19MP file with more than enough resolution.

With a distant and slow moving subject I have the option of using DX mode with the D850 and have a smaller file size. But in seconds I could switch to FX mode again if I chose to do so. The D850 gives me a FX and a DX camera in one body and a lot more flexibility out in the field.

The D500 is the better value with a native 10 fps but the D850 is the better camera and it should be for the much greater cost to buy it.

 

[Strodav]

I think the perceived "reach" and unwilling/unable to shoot D850 in crop mode.

Four reasons to pick up the D500 rather than put the D850 in DX mode: 1) D500 has a 7% higher pixel density than the D850 has in DX mode. The more pixels you put on the subject, the more detail you can capture; 2) you have to go into the menu system to select DX mode. You might be able to assign it to a button, I don't know, but all of my programmable buttons are in use; 3) You have to be careful to watch the DX frame lines in the D850 OVF in DX mode as the OVF does not change perspective going from FX to DX mode. Believe me it's a pain for those of us who like to reframe after focus lock. You basically are forced to keep you subject in the center of the frame; 4) 10 fps inherent speed.

 

[jhallettbc]

Again thanks for all the experience and opinions. There are enough affirmations that the difference in AF is not significant. As well a number of you have said that with the 850 you have a built in 500. I listened to Steve's review of the 850 and at the end he said he's putting his 500 on the shelf and just using the 850. That is enough to make me go ahead and get used 850 and sell my 780 and 500.

 

[Roy]

Now the prices of used DSLR are coming down I am considering buying a D850. I currently have a D500 and a D780. I have read that the AF focus on the D500 is faster. My question is the difference significant for someone who rarely takes BIF photos. My thinking is that if there is no big difference, then having a D850 would make sense--I would have both a FX and DX camera in one.
Another question is how does the AF compare on the D850 vs the D780 which has a new EXPEED 6 processor. Has anyone owned those cameras and seen a difference.

My D850 and D5 and D500 cameras are all based on the same AF system and are almost the same.
I haven't used the D780 but I can't see its as good.

 

[Jim J]

If you could design an experiment to measure AF speed, what would it be?

 

[Drbobcameraguy]

I appreciate all the feedback. I probably should sell both cameras to buy a D850. I don't understand why I have read here and elsewhere that people with both the 850 and 500 will still use the 500 for birds.

The reason most or some people prefer the d500 is the crop factor it gives to the lens. That is the reason I don't buy a d850. I shoot big almost always and have the longest lenses available. I still want more lens on occasion. Lol lol. I would like to have one for the stacking feature for micro shots and possibly the low light performance but for what I shoot my d500 is better than I am.

 

[jhallettbc]

My D850 and D5 and D500 cameras are all based on the same AF system and are almost the same.
I haven't used the D780 but I can't see its as good.

Having done some tests with between the D500 and D780 with AF on rapidly moving subjects, I can say the 780 has more keepers in focus. Makes sense to me because it has EXPEED 6.

 

[frdjohns]

Like Steve, I have all three cameras mentioned here (D5, D850, D500). Like Steve, I have shelved the D500 since I acquired the D850. The only advantage the D500 offers IMHO is frame rate. D850 is superior in all other aspects, and significantly better in perceived noise than the D500 in all but the best light. If I'm shooting slow or non-moving subjects (people, landscapes, etc.), I take the D850. If I absolutely, positively have to nail a shot it's the D5. Low light or fast subject its D5 again. My D500 will probably sit on the shelf, in case the D850 dies. I understand that some will disagree, and some will defend "their" camera at all times. However, I believe that with camera bodies you generally get what you pay for and there is a reason the D500 costs less than the other two cameras. The D500 is a great camera, but it is not a D850.

 

[Viathelens]

Now the prices of used DSLR are coming down I am considering buying a D850. I currently have a D500 and a D780. I have read that the AF focus on the D500 is faster. My question is the difference significant for someone who rarely takes BIF photos. My thinking is that if there is no big difference, then having a D850 would make sense--I would have both a FX and DX camera in one.
Another question is how does the AF compare on the D850 vs the D780 which has a new EXPEED 6 processor. Has anyone owned those cameras and seen a difference.

But, the bigger question is, do you have the 500PF??? That, on my D850, is a stunning combination. I still have my D500, but it sits in the bag as a backup camera. I do take BIF shots and I have no problem at all with the D850 and I have no problem using it in crop mode (but nothing matches, if you need it, the buffer in the D500). Here is a recent shot at my bird feeder, it was great light the morning I took this so had to shoot something.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[jhallettbc]

But, the bigger question is, do you have the 500PF??? That, on my D850, is a stunning combination.

No I don't and I know everyone raves about the combination. I can't afford both. What I use now as an approximation is the 300 PF with TC 1.4 iii. I am fairly happy with the results but I have no doubt that the 500 PF would result in noticeably sharper photos. Since I don't print my bird photos or share them, I think I'm just going to have to be content to accept the the feathers, etc. will not pop in the same way they would if taken with a 500. I have to remind myself that I take the photos because I enjoy the experience and process, not to get the sharpest possible photos that money can buy.
Here is a example of the 300 PF with TC 1.4, making it 630 mm on the D500.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[Viathelens]

No I don't and I know everyone raves about the combination. I can't afford both. What I use now as an approximation is the 300 PF with TC 1.4 iii. I am fairly happy with the results but I have no doubt that the 500 PF would result in noticeably sharper photos. Since I don't print my bird photos or share them, I think I'm just going to have to be content to accept the the feathers, etc. will not pop in the same way they would if taken with a 500. I have to remind myself that I take the photos because I enjoy the experience and process, not to get the sharpest possible photos that money can buy.
Here is a example of the 300 PF with TC 1.4, making it 630 mm on the D500.View attachment 32552

I'm sure the 300PF is great, too! Nice shot. If you use LrC you can use the Transform panel instead of cropping a lot to enlarge the subject a bit if you cannot get close enough. This is obviously close enough!

 

[Ken Miracle]

But, the bigger question is, do you have the 500PF??? That, on my D850, is a stunning combination. I still have my D500, but it sits in the bag as a backup camera. I do take BIF shots and I have no problem at all with the D850 and I have no problem using it in crop mode (but nothing matches, if you need it, the buffer in the D500). Here is a recent shot at my bird feeder, it was great light the morning I took this so had to shoot something.View attachment 32551

cool shot ... I saw no real practical difference between the buffer or even the frame rate between my D500 and my D850 (with the grip and the EN EL 18 battery) and both using the same XQD cards and later the same CFexpress B cards ... there is a slight perceived faster frame rate when I use my D850 in DX.

 

[Ken Miracle]

No I don't and I know everyone raves about the combination. I can't afford both. What I use now as an approximation is the 300 PF with TC 1.4 iii. I am fairly happy with the results but I have no doubt that the 500 PF would result in noticeably sharper photos. Since I don't print my bird photos or share them, I think I'm just going to have to be content to accept the the feathers, etc. will not pop in the same way they would if taken with a 500. I have to remind myself that I take the photos because I enjoy the experience and process, not to get the sharpest possible photos that money can buy.
Here is a example of the 300 PF with TC 1.4, making it 630 mm on the D500.View attachment 32552

Nice spotted Towhee shots. I did sell my 300 pf when I got the 500 pf for two reasons I did not have to mess with the TC either on my D500 or my D850 when I had the 500pf on but I would not say it was a whole lot if any sharper for practical use than the 300 pf and the 1.4TC that is a great combo. The reason I sold the 300pf was that I have a Tamron 70-200 f 2.8 G2 that combined with the Tamron 1.4 TC was as sharp or maybe a bit sharper than the 300 pf and more versatile and when combined with my 500 pf made the 300pf redundant for me.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Having done some tests with between the D500 and D780 with AF on rapidly moving subjects, I can say the 780 has more keepers in focus. Makes sense to me because it has EXPEED 6.

I never had or shot the D780. But having owned and use the D500, D850 and D6 and having used the 500pf and the 600 f/4 E on all three and the best in low light for noise and focus was the D6 (fewer mega pixels 20.8 for a reason) and the Expeed 6 processor that the D780 also has. The D6 also had a signficantly faster frame rate than the D500 or D850 (with grip and EN El 18 battery) using the same Delkin Power CFexpress B cards in all 3. The D780 only half the frame rate at 7fps of the D6 and slower than either the D500 or the D850 with the EN EL 18 battery). Since I shoot birds 95% of the time the fact that I was comfortable keeping the amazing D850 and selling the D6 and the D500 while I wait for the Z9 is telling.

 

[Calson]

With the D500 I had a DX camera but with the D850 I have both a DX and a FX camera in one body. With the D5 in DX mode I would have a 9MP camera with less resolution than a D2x from 2006. With the D850 and the battery grip I can use EN-EL18 batteries and go for 2-3 days without running out of juice and that is a big deal when traveling and shooting day after day. I used to travel with three EN-EL15 chargers and a power strip to charge my batteries for the next day of shooting. With the EN-EL18 I can charge one battery each night or less often and no need to monitor the chargers during the night.

A common problem I see with many wildlife images is having too close a crop and not leaving any breathing space for the animal or giving any sense of its environment. With the D500 I used the 80-400mm far more than the 200-500mm zoom lens for this reason. The much larger field of view with the D850 was a big improvement.

What I see with the Z9 is the autofocus performance of the D5 along with the resolution and full frame sensor of the D850. No need to compromise autofocus performance with the D850 or the usable image size with the D5 or D6. Now all I need to do is find a suitable replacement for my 200mm f/4 lens as it is not Z compatible as there is nothing in the works from Nikon.

 

[frdjohns]

Snipped for brevity ...Now all I need to do is find a suitable replacement for my 200mm f/4 lens as it is not Z compatible as there is nothing in the works from Nikon.

Just curious, will this lens not function with the FTZ adapter? If it does, that would seem a better solution than a different lens.

 

[jhallettbc]

No I don't and I know everyone raves about the combination. I can't afford both. What I use now as an approximation is the 300 PF with TC 1.4 iii. I am fairly happy with the results but I have no doubt that the 500 PF would result in noticeably sharper photos. Since I don't print my bird photos or share them, I think I'm just going to have to be content to accept the the feathers, etc. will not pop in the same way they would if taken with a 500. I have to remind myself that I take the photos because I enjoy the experience and process, not to get the sharpest possible photos that money can buy.
Here is a example of the 300 PF with TC 1.4, making it 630 mm on the D500.View attachment 32552

I did an interesting experiment yesterday with my friend's D850 and his 500 PF, comparing it to the 300 PF with the 1.4 TC, as well as comparing it to both on the D500. The results were most surprising. The 300 PF x 1.4 was noticeably sharper on the D850 with the DX crop than on the D500, even though it has slightly fewer megapixels on the DX setting than the D500. Also surprising was the 500 PF was sharper on the D500 than on the D850. Most surprising was the 300 PF x1.4 being sharper on the D850 than the 500 PF. It makes me wonder if my friend doesn't have the best copy for this lens.
My conclusion is that I will just stay with the 300 PF x 1.4 and not give another thought to not having a 500 PF. Still looking for a used D850 at the right price.

 

[arbitrage]

I did an interesting experiment yesterday with my friend's D850 and his 500 PF, comparing it to the 300 PF with the 1.4 TC, as well as comparing it to both on the D500. The results were most surprising. The 300 PF x 1.4 was noticeably sharper on the D850 with the DX crop than on the D500, even though it has slightly fewer megapixels on the DX setting than the D500. Also surprising was the 500 PF was sharper on the D500 than on the D850. Most surprising was the 300 PF x1.4 being sharper on the D850 than the 500 PF. It makes me wonder if my friend doesn't have the best copy for this lens.
My conclusion is that I will just stay with the 300 PF x 1.4 and not give another thought to not having a 500 PF. Still looking for a used D850 at the right price.

How controlled was this test? The thing that doesn't make sense is one lens being sharper on D850 and another lens being sharper on D500. There really should be little to no difference between those two cameras at the pixel level with the same lens. If there was a difference it should favor the same body with every lens.

As per the lenses themselves, my copy of the 300PF was razor sharp and with the 1.4TC it was very close to my 500PF. I was happy with either combo but eventualy gravitated to the 500PF because of the extra 80mm of reach at f/5.6.

That all said, I still wonder about the validity of your results because of the differing sharpness seen between the two bodies in different directions with each lens. That finding throws the entire test into question.