It happened to me.....data loss! Lightroom questions....

[Wahfreak]

After a perfect storm of events, my drive crashed and now I'm in the process of a pricey recovery attempt. I'm hoping I can get most of it back....fingers crossed!

Please learn from my mistake!

I spoke to the recovery lab about the possible state of the folder structure if/when I get any photos back and they obviously can't guarantee anything. Because I was working off that drive in Lightroom, the locations have all been established. If the folder structure is not intact if/when I get anything back (which I think would be a nightmare) what would be the best way to reconnect back to Lightroom? I don't think I want to re-import because that will create new catalogs right?? I have backed up Lightroom catalogs up to a few days ago.

I'm kinda at a loss what to do right now and I feel like I want to prepare myself for the worst but also prepare for the game plan if I get something back.

Are these questions outside the scope of these forum??

Any suggestion (in general) or when I can ask to sort these things out? I'm nervous as hell!

Anyone else experience data loss?

 

[aolander]

So you have no backup of your images?

 

[gbodave]

Was that an internal or external drive.

 

[Steve]

It may be worse than just the folder structure. Often recovered files don't retain their original names so even if you put them all back, Lightroom wouldn't know what the images are after the rename.

The truth is, there's a lot of different scenarios that may go down and how you proceed / what you can do is highly dependent on what they can do. I'm not sure if there's any way to guess at this point. It could be that you get everything back in folders and intact, it could be that you get a file dump with no association.

The real problem is if you can't re-associate the images with the catalog, any edits will disappear (unless you were using DNGs and embedding the edits).

 

[Wahfreak]

Was that an internal or external drive.

It was an external...

 

[Wahfreak]

It may be worse than just the folder structure. Often recovered files don't retain their original names so even if you put them all back, Lightroom wouldn't know what the images are after the rename.

The truth is, there's a lot of different scenarios that may go down and how you proceed / what you can do is highly dependent on what they can do. I'm not sure if there's any way to guess at this point. It could be that you get everything back in folders and intact, it could be that you get a file dump with no association.

The real problem is if you can't re-associate the images with the catalog, any edits will disappear (unless you were using DNGs and embedding the edits).

 

[SandyW]

As Steve said, there are a lot of possible scenarios. What I would do, assuming worst case scenario (loss of structure and names), would be to create a new catalog and import everything on the recovered drive. I would then find the most important to me photos (or easiest to find) and restore them to another drive or partition using your old folder structure if you can recreate it. I would then open the old catalog (making sure you also had a backup of it!) and link it to that new drive and files. This would give you a starting point to find more files and move them to the new drive. This would take a LOT of time and effort!

This is definitely for a worse case scenario! Hopefully you will be able to recover at least some structure and files that would make it easier.

 

[Replytoken]

As Steve said, there are a lot of possible scenarios. What I would do, assuming worst case scenario (loss of structure and names), would be to create a new catalog and import everything on the recovered drive. I would then find the most important to me photos (or easiest to find) and restore them to another drive or partition using your old folder structure if you can recreate it. I would then open the old catalog (making sure you also had a backup of it!) and link it to that new drive and files. This would give you a starting point to find more files and move them to the new drive. This would take a LOT of time and effort!

This is definitely for a worse case scenario! Hopefully you will be able to recover at least some structure and files that would make it easier.

This assumes that you can rename the recovered images to their original names so LR can find them in their new location. This could be quite a task depending how the images were originally named.

--Ken

 

[Replytoken]

If the OP can recover any LR files that contain the preview cache files, they could attempt to extract the previews to help if renaming is necessary. Here are two articles that cover the extraction process:

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/extract-previews-for-lost-images-lightroom.html

https://www.howtogeek.com/364408/how-to-recover-your-images-from-your-lightroom-preview-files/

--Ken

 

[SandyW]

This assumes that you can rename the recovered images to their original names so LR can find them in their new location. This could be quite a task depending how the images were originally named.

Yep! That is why I said it would take a LOT of time and effort!! My thinking was that moving them to a new drive/partition with a recreated structure would make it easier for the old catalog to find them. The old catalog should show thumbnails for the missing images. You could then rename or associate them as necessary. There is more than on solution to this, but none of them are great. A lot is going to depend on what he gets back.

 

[bleirer]

Arrgg! So much to think about and plan for. Know your song well before you start singing, as Bob Dylan wrote. So no backup of the images, I'm assuming. And assuming the recovered image names don't match the lightroom catalog. I feel your pain.

If you had lightroom writing the edits to the sidecars, which is a setting that could have be activated in lightroom preferences, then in theory if they can recover the file and the related sidecar you can reconstruct the edit by starting a new catalog, but I'm sure I don't have to tell you to make a backup of whatever is recovered just in case your attempt at reconstruction is fraught.

 

[Steve]

Honestly, this whole thing has me rethinking DNGs. You can embed processing info (fast load data) in them and in an event like this the files themselves would hold the important post-processing info, not just the Lightroom catalog. (Plus, if you open the DNG in ACR your Lightroom changes are there too).

 

[Replytoken]

Honestly, this whole thing has me rethinking DNGs. You can embed processing info (fast load data) in them and in an event like this the files themselves would hold the important post-processing info, not just the Lightroom catalog. (Plus, if you open the DNG in ACR your Lightroom changes are there too).

While this is an option, many just assume that backups of the files and the catalogs can be pressed into service if needed. If done right, one should be able to be back up and running in minutes.

--Ken

 

[Wahfreak]

I don’t have to tell you how dumb I feel about all this. I had to move the photos from my C: because it was full and was running so slow. I moved everything over and did a bunch of house cleaning and consolidating in the process. I was hoping to get it all organized so I didn’t back up a bunch of duplicates and unneeded junk. Once it was moved over and all looked good, I deleted the C: copies because the computer was barely running.
The back up program I was using (memeo) is set up to only save to the C: and I couldn’t change it (unknown to me). By now there was more data on the external than would fit on the C: and memeo refused to back it up due to lack of space. I do have some backed up photos on a secondary external drive but nothing recently (which is where my better work has been).

I was literally searching for cloud storage when it quit. If it could have waited for 2 more days it would have been ok. Stupid on my part I know...


Thank you for the responses and not telling me what I already know......I should never have waited this long.

 

[Steve]

While this is an option, many just assume that backups of the files and the catalogs can be pressed into service if needed. If done right, one should be able to be back up and running in minutes.

--Ken

Oh, I agree. I have three backups for the images and the catalog. I'm always paranoid about things though.

 

[Steve]

I don’t have to tell you how dumb I feel about all this. I had to move the photos from my C: because it was full and was running so slow. I moved everything over and did a bunch of house cleaning and consolidating in the process. I was hoping to get it all organized so I didn’t back up a bunch of duplicates and unneeded junk. Once it was moved over and all looked good, I deleted the C: copies because the computer was barely running.
The back up program I was using (memeo) is set up to only save to the C: and I couldn’t change it (unknown to me). By now there more data on the external than would fit on the C: and memeo refused to back it up due to lack of space. I do have some backed up photos on a secondary external drive but nothing recently (which is where my better work has been).

I was literally searching for cloud storage when it quit. If it could have waited for 2 more days it would have been ok. Stupid on my part I know...


Thank you for the responses and not telling me what I already know......I should never have waited this long.

Honesty, if it just quit there's a chance it's not a problem with the actual drive and instead the internal components that it's plugged into. If that's the case, a full recovery may be possible. I've ripped apart enclosures before and salvaged / repurposed the drives. Fingers crossed for you!

 

[Replytoken]

I don’t have to tell you how dumb I feel about all this. I had to move the photos from my C: because it was full and was running so slow. I moved everything over and did a bunch of house cleaning and consolidating in the process. I was hoping to get it all organized so I didn’t back up a bunch of duplicates and unneeded junk. Once it was moved over and all looked good, I deleted the C: copies because the computer was barely running.
The back up program I was using (memeo) is set up to only save to the C: and I couldn’t change it (unknown to me). By now there was more data on the external than would fit on the C: and memeo refused to back it up due to lack of space. I do have some backed up photos on a secondary external drive but nothing recently (which is where my better work has been).

I was literally searching for cloud storage when it quit. If it could have waited for 2 more days it would have been ok. Stupid on my part I know...


Thank you for the responses and not telling me what I already know......I should never have waited this long.

I think that we all feel your pain, and the atmosphere here does not seem to support kicking a member when they are down and out. Keep us posted if questions arise as you find out more about your drive. Also, the LR Queen forum is a good place for support if need be.

Good luck,

--Ken

 

[StephenK]

Honestly, this whole thing has me rethinking DNGs. You can embed processing info (fast load data) in them and in an event like this the files themselves would hold the important post-processing info, not just the Lightroom catalog. (Plus, if you open the DNG in ACR your Lightroom changes are there too).

I've been having the same thoughts too.

Another scenario that bothers me a little is if something happens to me - those likely to inherit my collections are unlikely to understand the extent of the data held in the catalog, and will likely go direct to the photos and feel like they are inheriting a bunch of non-descript, un-edited photos an not know what to make of it.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Honestly, this whole thing has me rethinking DNGs. You can embed processing info (fast load data) in them and in an event like this the files themselves would hold the important post-processing info, not just the Lightroom catalog. (Plus, if you open the DNG in ACR your Lightroom changes are there too).

Now I am feeling dense ... I know almost nothing about DNG files and do not know what ACR is. I do have my images and catalog on the same ssd external drive and use carbon copy cloner to make and exact copy on 3 other SSD drives. I have only tested it a couple of times and all I did was rename the back up drive to the name of the primary drive and I saw no difference in operation. But this discussion has me wondering about a way to save important edited images without having to rely on the link to the catalog. Can you point me in the right direction to learn more?

 

[bleirer]

Now I am feeling dense ... I know almost nothing about DNG files and do not know what ACR is. I do have my images and catalog on the same ssd external drive and use carbon copy cloner to make and exact copy on 3 other SSD drives. I have only tested it a couple of times and all I did was rename the back up drive to the name of the primary drive and I saw no difference in operation. But this discussion has me wondering about a way to save important edited images without having to rely on the link to the catalog. Can you point me in the right direction to learn more?

ACR is adobe camera raw, the raw converter that pops open when you open a raw file in Photoshop. Lightroom uses the same 'engine' as acr but a little different user interface. DNG is digital negative. Adobe tried to make a 'universal' raw file called DNG buf it didnt catch on as they wanted it to. But for adobe products you can convert a raw to dng and it can still be considered raw, more or less. What Steve was talking about is the dng stores the raw data and the recipe for the edits within one file, where a regular raw file stores the recipe for the edits done in ACR in a separate file called a sidecar with the same filename but an .xmp suffix. Lightroom recipes are saved in the catalog but they can also be saved to a sidecar. There is a lightroom preference to set this to happen automatically, or you use ctrl-s or menu of metadata/save. That"s about all I know about it.

 

[Ken Miracle]

ACR is adobe camera raw, the raw converter that pops open when you open a raw file in Photoshop.

Thanks ... I went from Aperture to LR and skipped PS and have only used it a very few times doing edit in from LR. If I or my wife etc. if she inherited my drive and images, had DNG images with LR edits could they be opened in View Nx-i etc. and used on the internet, printed etc.. Or would I have to export them as a Tiff file and either import them to my LR catalog or to a seperate drive. Does the DNG file or Tiff file or both have key words etc. from the IPTC/Meta Data?

 

[bleirer]

Thanks ... I went from Aperture to LR and skipped PS and have only used it a very few times doing edit in from LR. If I or my wife etc. if she inherited my drive and images, had DNG images with LR edits could they be opened in View Nx-i etc. and used on the internet, printed etc.. Or would I have to export them as a Tiff file and either import them to my LR catalog or to a seperate drive. Does the DNG file or Tiff file or both have key words etc. from the IPTC/Meta Data?

I don't use dng because I like to keep my raw files 'pure' in case I want to use the Canon software, someone will know though. I believe not since dng is an adobe thing.

 

[Steve]

Thanks ... I went from Aperture to LR and skipped PS and have only used it a very few times doing edit in from LR. If I or my wife etc. if she inherited my drive and images, had DNG images with LR edits could they be opened in View Nx-i etc. and used on the internet, printed etc.. Or would I have to export them as a Tiff file and either import them to my LR catalog or to a seperate drive. Does the DNG file or Tiff file or both have key words etc. from the IPTC/Meta Data?

DNG can be opened with a variety of software, although not Nikon as far as I know (just tried). However, the edits are instruction sets, so although a non-adobe program may be able to open the DNG, that doesn't mean the edits will follow. The only way to insure you have the edits is with Adobe software.

You can convert them to DNG via the catalog. Just select all (CMD/CRL + A) > Library > Convert Photo To DNG. You'll get some options, make sure "fast load data" is checked. You can embed your original RAW files in the DNG (huge files though), leave them alone, or delete them after conversion. If you want a set of images that are easily accessed when you're gone, full quality JEPGS are the best bet. They are the most universal. Plus, what are the chances someone would want to come in and edit your RAW files after you go? I certainly don't see it happening with my stuff. I think my family would just want the processed images, if they wanted any of it.

Also, keep in mind that when you edit your RAW file in Lightroom, you're basically working on a DNG version of the file. So, it's not like you're losing any data.

All that said, I still can't bring myself to convert. I get tempted like this from time to time, but I also have a bunch of other Tiffs and PSDs in the mix too (some that have minor Lightroom tweaks). So, I'll probably just keep relying on my numerous backups.

 

[MartyD]

Honesty, if it just quit there's a chance it's not a problem with the actual drive and instead the internal components that it's plugged into. If that's the case, a full recovery may be possible. I've ripped apart enclosures before and salvaged / repurposed the drives. Fingers crossed for you!

I am with Steve on this one and sending positive thoughts your way. If the external unit just died it could be any number of things not related to the encased drive mechanism. Removing the drive and placing it in a new enclosure may revive it, let's hope for the best.

 

[Niels.hr.Hansen]

I thought LR kept edits in side car files, so you would be able to import RAW and side car in a new database and have exact same edits as in the old. Maybe it's an option.
Darktabel offers this as a method, I use it both for an extra level of backup of the database and when bringing edits from my laptop to the desktop.