Mirrorless lenses on Z9 vs F mount with adaptor

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To those of you Nikon shooters that have switched to mirrorless lenses, I'd like to hear what your experience has been.

I'm using F mount lenses with a FTZ2 on a Z9 and the camera hasn't quite lived up to what I expected. It seems the connection between some lenses and the FTZ adaptor isn't that great.
With my 200-400 f4, the images are sharp as expected, yet with the 400 2.8 AFS and the 70-200 2.8 it's a hit and miss - I accept it could be operator error as well. I was doing headshots (1/200s f5.6 with strobes) with the 70-200, using BBF single point AF, Pin AF, C2 etc all with eye recognition on, but too many many shots were soft, off focus etc.

I have done AF Fine tuning with all these lenses using Focal software and most lenses were in the -2 to -3 range with the FTZ2. Also cleaned all the connections on the lenses & FTZ with LensClens #1. Using the latest firmware.

With which mirrorless lenses have you experienced the biggest difference? Anyone using the 70-180 f2.8?

Looking forward to your advice.
 
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I use Canon gear Johan so not sure if my experience is relevant to your question. Having said that my experience is that the Canon 5Ds slr does not function as well as the Canon R7. I have no RF lenses only EF lenses which I use with the R7 via an adapter. The reason I still use the 5Ds occasionally is that when I do get it right [ not too often that happens ] the results are good [imo].
 
I have a Z6ii and use a 70-200 f2.8 E FL on it with an FTZ ii with no issues at all. I use it in the studio too. These are resized for the web so have suffered a bit:

First 1/160 f4 BBF with wide area AF people, but I have used auto area AF people too. They are the only way to get eye recognition on the Z6ii.

Second 1/160 f5.6 both at 100 ISO

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To those of you Nikon shooters that have switched to mirrorless lenses, I'd like to hear what your experience has been.

I'm using F mount lenses with a FTZ2 on a Z9 and the camera hasn't quite lived up to what I expected. It seems the connection between some lenses and the FTZ adaptor isn't that great.
With my 200-400 f4, the images are sharp as expected, yet with the 400 2.8 AFS and the 70-200 2.8 it's a hit and miss - I accept it could be operator error as well. I was doing headshots (1/200s f5.6 with strobes) with the 70-200, using BBF single point AF, Pin AF, C2 etc all with eye recognition on, but too many many shots were soft, off focus etc.

I have done AF Fine tuning with all these lenses using Focal software and most lenses were in the -2 to -3 range with the FTZ2. Also cleaned all the connections on the lenses & FTZ with LensClens #1. Using the latest firmware.

With which mirrorless lenses have you experienced the biggest difference? Anyone using the 70-180 f2.8?

Looking forward to your advice.
AF fine tune should not be necessary on your Z9. On my Z7, Z7II, Z8 and Z9, I have used my 400 f2.8E FL VR with and without all the TC's. I have used the 500 f5.6 PF with and without the 1.4x TCIII. I have used the 70-200 f2.8E FL VR with and without TC's. I have used the 105 f1.4E. All of them performed flawlessly for AF speed and accuracy - none requiring AF fine tune.

When you ask: "With which mirrorless lenses have you experienced the biggest difference?" what exactly are you referring to as the difference?
 
I've used several different f mount lenses from Nikon, Tamron and Sigma on my Z9 using FTZ II with absolutely no issues. As others have reported, AF seems faster and more reliable on the Z9 compared to my D850 / D500. I'll emphasize Lance B's post that AF tuning is not necessary on mirrorless cameras.
 
AF fine tune should not be necessary on your Z9. On my Z7, Z7II, Z8 and Z9, I have used my 400 f2.8E FL VR with and without all the TC's. I have used the 500 f5.6 PF with and without the 1.4x TCIII. I have used the 70-200 f2.8E FL VR with and without TC's. I have used the 105 f1.4E. All of them performed flawlessly for AF speed and accuracy - none requiring AF fine tune.

When you ask: "With which mirrorless lenses have you experienced the biggest difference?" what exactly are you referring to as the difference?
Thanks for the reply - I meant how does the z mount lens compare to its F mount equivalent
 
No issues with the FTZ either. If anything, my F-mount lenses perform better on the Z9 than they did on the F-mount cameras.

As for lens-to-lens performance, it's tough to say. My 600 F/4 seemed to perform about as well with the FTZ as my 600TC does. However, the 600 TC is newer and I would expect better performance and AF consistency with newer glass anyway.
 
Thanks for the reply - I meant how does the z mount lens compare to its F mount equivalent
It depends on the lens. I've got 4 Nikon Z S lenses, 35mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.8 , 85mm f/1.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8. I can tell you the Z S versions of the 35mm and 50mm are much, much better glass than their f mount equivilents. The best example is the 50mm wide open. The Z S version is sharp, the f mount version is very soft. As far as the 85mm goes, not much of a difference between the f mount and Z S mount. Similar experience with the 70-200mm versions, where there is a small difference you have to go looking for. Other factors like subject, light, and composition are much more important.
 
I find no obvious difference between 400FL and 400zTc, same thing between 600FL and 600zTc both as speed and accuracy on Z9
The difference in quality between these lenses is minimal and in practical use almost invisible.
Between 70-200FL and 70-200z the difference in sharpness is in favor of the Z, the blur I prefer the FL
 
I find no obvious difference between 400FL and 400zTc, same thing between 600FL and 600zTc both as speed and accuracy on Z9
The difference in quality between these lenses is minimal and in practical use almost invisible.
Between 70-200FL and 70-200z the difference in sharpness is in favor of the Z, the blur I prefer the FL
Thank you - what about focus speed and % of shots in a burst in focus?
 
My experience has been a bit different from some of those here. I have used the FTZ on the Z7ii as well as the Z8. I have also used most of the F mount lenses listed on the D500 and D5600. My selection of lenses has not been as grandiose as many others I am sure. I have used the following:

Nikkor 200-500 f/5.6
Sigma 150-600 Sports
Nikkor 35 f/1.8 DX
Nikkor 70-300 DX
Nikkor 18-55 VR DX
Nikkor Z 70-180 f/2.8

On all of the F mount lenses I would agree with what Steve said: they worked better on the Z bodies with the FTZ than they did on the F mount bodies. They have generally worked well.

However, the F mount lenses have definitely have not worked for me on the Z bodies as well as I expected of the Z bodies based on any of how I saw those bodies performing online - almost always with Z mount lenses.

In other words, I saw the Z7ii and Z8 working a certain way over and over in videos online and when I would put my F mount lenses on these bodies, while they'd work better than on my DSLRs, I would not see the performance from the Z bodies that those same bodies exhibited when being shot with Z lenses online.

The real revelation came when I got my first - and currently only - native Z lens, the 70-180. It's been pretty striking how much better the AF works. For instance, with the F mount lenses I would have my kids on the swings or going down the slide or running around in the yard and try to photograph them and if I relied on "old school" methods I could, but neither the Z7ii nor even the Z8 would really track their eyes especially well - though the Z8 was definitely better. When I had the Z7ii, I blamed this on the camera and its reputation for having poor AF for action. Even then I was always confused because lots of people out there would talk about how bad the AF in those early Z bodies was, while others would say it actually is fine and would showcase great photos of birds in flight, equestrian shows, sports, kids playing, etc. I'd even see videos of people doing this stuff and it worked! - but not for me. In part I even made the huge Z8 investment to try to finally get this stuff working and while it was slightly better I was truly devastated when the Z8 still didn't do this stuff well and felt like it was a huge waste of money.

It's not necessarily a super solid conclusion because it's currently a sample size of one, but the native Z lens just does all this the way I always thought it should. In fact, here's an example of how well: in the evenings we often take a walk and I bring the camera and a few times I've given the camera to my wife to hold so I can run with the kids. She has so little experience with it that a few days ago she tried taking photos with it while she was holding it and got a bunch of totally out of focus shots until she asked and I had to explain how to use back button focus. One day later we went out and she got almost nothing but in focus shots of us running around pretty fast and the kids being erratic kids where even when they are having a "portrait" taken they move faster than some wild animals. It was far more in focus shots than I've probably ever gotten of a scene like that, most of them focused right on the eye - and all in basically the dark.

I wouldn't have gotten shots like this with any of my F mount lenses, let alone my wife who hasn't ever really used a camera since the advent of mirrorless.

The best way for me to describe the difference would be to say that none of the uniquely mirrorless features have really worked very well for me with any of my F mount lenses, but basic focus performance has been more accurate than on the DSLRs. Subject detection, tracking, and that sort of thing has been poor and way more often than should be the case it won't even recognize a subject with the F mount lenses mounted. However, if a subject IS detected than the focus will be more accurate than with even my fine tuned DSLR, and if I use a regular single point AF or have subject detection turned off, focus will be more accurate. Thus, from my experience anyways, I have found that the reputation for the FTZ to work extremely well is deserved in the sense that it will provide near seamless operation according to the standards for F mount cameras, but perhaps slightly overstated (again, in my experience) in that they haven't given me good performance according to the standard for what a Z mount camera can do.

I'm attaching a few photos below that my wife took to demonstrate what the Z mount lens did in difficult conditions in the hands of someone who knows almost nothing about how to use the camera:

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My experience has been a bit different from some of those here. I have used the FTZ on the Z7ii as well as the Z8. I have also used most of the F mount lenses listed on the D500 and D5600. My selection of lenses has not been as grandiose as many others I am sure. I have used the following:

Nikkor 200-500 f/5.6
Sigma 150-600 Sports
Nikkor 35 f/1.8 DX
Nikkor 70-300 DX
Nikkor 18-55 VR DX
Nikkor Z 70-180 f/2.8

On all of the F mount lenses I would agree with what Steve said: they worked better on the Z bodies with the FTZ than they did on the F mount bodies. They have generally worked well.

However, the F mount lenses have definitely have not worked for me on the Z bodies as well as I expected of the Z bodies based on any of how I saw those bodies performing online - almost always with Z mount lenses.

In other words, I saw the Z7ii and Z8 working a certain way over and over in videos online and when I would put my F mount lenses on these bodies, while they'd work better than on my DSLRs, I would not see the performance from the Z bodies that those same bodies exhibited when being shot with Z lenses online.

The real revelation came when I got my first - and currently only - native Z lens, the 70-180. It's been pretty striking how much better the AF works. For instance, with the F mount lenses I would have my kids on the swings or going down the slide or running around in the yard and try to photograph them and if I relied on "old school" methods I could, but neither the Z7ii nor even the Z8 would really track their eyes especially well - though the Z8 was definitely better. When I had the Z7ii, I blamed this on the camera and its reputation for having poor AF for action. Even then I was always confused because lots of people out there would talk about how bad the AF in those early Z bodies was, while others would say it actually is fine and would showcase great photos of birds in flight, equestrian shows, sports, kids playing, etc. I'd even see videos of people doing this stuff and it worked! - but not for me. In part I even made the huge Z8 investment to try to finally get this stuff working and while it was slightly better I was truly devastated when the Z8 still didn't do this stuff well and felt like it was a huge waste of money.

It's not necessarily a super solid conclusion because it's currently a sample size of one, but the native Z lens just does all this the way I always thought it should. In fact, here's an example of how well: in the evenings we often take a walk and I bring the camera and a few times I've given the camera to my wife to hold so I can run with the kids. She has so little experience with it that a few days ago she tried taking photos with it while she was holding it and got a bunch of totally out of focus shots until she asked and I had to explain how to use back button focus. One day later we went out and she got almost nothing but in focus shots of us running around pretty fast and the kids being erratic kids where even when they are having a "portrait" taken they move faster than some wild animals. It was far more in focus shots than I've probably ever gotten of a scene like that, most of them focused right on the eye - and all in basically the dark.

I wouldn't have gotten shots like this with any of my F mount lenses, let alone my wife who hasn't ever really used a camera since the advent of mirrorless.

The best way for me to describe the difference would be to say that none of the uniquely mirrorless features have really worked very well for me with any of my F mount lenses, but basic focus performance has been more accurate than on the DSLRs. Subject detection, tracking, and that sort of thing has been poor and way more often than should be the case it won't even recognize a subject with the F mount lenses mounted. However, if a subject IS detected than the focus will be more accurate than with even my fine tuned DSLR, and if I use a regular single point AF or have subject detection turned off, focus will be more accurate. Thus, from my experience anyways, I have found that the reputation for the FTZ to work extremely well is deserved in the sense that it will provide near seamless operation according to the standards for F mount cameras, but perhaps slightly overstated (again, in my experience) in that they haven't given me good performance according to the standard for what a Z mount camera can do.

I'm attaching a few photos below that my wife took to demonstrate what the Z mount lens did in difficult conditions in the hands of someone who knows almost nothing about how to use the camera:

View attachment 69954View attachment 69955View attachment 69956
Thanks so much for the detailed reply - nice pics!
 
The best way for me to describe the difference would be to say that none of the uniquely mirrorless features have really worked very well for me with any of my F mount lenses, but basic focus performance has been more accurate than on the DSLRs.
Perhaps your (and some other) owners who have AF issue is you might tend to rely on AF techniques that worked with Nikon DSLR's but not with ML - except for a few Olympus bodies.

A big plus of later generation DSLR's is they have increasing numbers of cross type sensors that can detect horizontal as well as vertical detail across the frame.

ML does not detect horizontal detail across the frame that DSLRs often do - making the move to ML an AF challenge without modifying "AF subject detection technique."

With improving body/face/eye technique ML generally moves well ahead of DSLRs - though when there is no subject that ML AI detects and no vertical detail something like a Nikon DSLR can still be better.

When I first got my Z7 (almost 5 years ago ) I had great difficulty getting the Z7 to work as I wanted with Z or F lenses - part because back then eye AF etc had not arrived and part because the size of the Nikon AF detection area was a "one size has to fit all subjects - even though often it does not".

It took me about 6 weeks to get Z7 AF sorted - and for many moving subjects I retained the D850.

When eye AF etc came along I found Z AF good enough with work-arounds when only horizontal detail was available with both F and Z lenses, sold my D850 and gradually moved toward upgrading my F lenses to Z.


Z8 (or Z9) AF acquisition for many subjects is IMO dramatically better than the Z6/7 series.

My advice to anyone with F lens AF subject acquisition issues is to to maybe hire or borrow a Z8 - and assuming most AF issues evaporate - to upgrade to a Z8 if you can afford it.
There seems little sign of Nikon, unlike Canon and Sony, introducing a more competent AF body than Z6/7 to be on sale before the end of this year :confused:
 
I am using Sigma 500 F/4 Sports for Nikon F mount. So far it is the best lens I have. Z 100-400 is usually too short for me and Z 800 is fickle in less than perfect atmospheric conditions.
I am not a wildlife shooter, my main hobby are AIF :). (airplanes in flight)
 
Perhaps your (and some other) owners who have AF issue is you might tend to rely on AF techniques that worked with Nikon DSLR's but not with ML - except for a few Olympus bodies.

A big plus of later generation DSLR's is they have increasing numbers of cross type sensors that can detect horizontal as well as vertical detail across the frame.

ML does not detect horizontal detail across the frame that DSLRs often do - making the move to ML an AF challenge without modifying "AF subject detection technique."

With improving body/face/eye technique ML generally moves well ahead of DSLRs - though when there is no subject that ML AI detects and no vertical detail something like a Nikon DSLR can still be better.

When I first got my Z7 (almost 5 years ago ) I had great difficulty getting the Z7 to work as I wanted with Z or F lenses - part because back then eye AF etc had not arrived and part because the size of the Nikon AF detection area was a "one size has to fit all subjects - even though often it does not".

It took me about 6 weeks to get Z7 AF sorted - and for many moving subjects I retained the D850.

When eye AF etc came along I found Z AF good enough with work-arounds when only horizontal detail was available with both F and Z lenses, sold my D850 and gradually moved toward upgrading my F lenses to Z.



Z8 (or Z9) AF acquisition for many subjects is IMO dramatically better than the Z6/7 series.

My advice to anyone with F lens AF subject acquisition issues is to to maybe hire or borrow a Z8 - and assuming most AF issues evaporate - to upgrade to a Z8 if you can afford it.
There seems little sign of Nikon, unlike Canon and Sony, introducing a more competent AF body than Z6/7 to be on sale before the end of this year :confused:
Len - thanks for the detailed reply. What did you do in terms of your technique to get it 'sorted'?
 
Perhaps your (and some other) owners who have AF issue is you might tend to rely on AF techniques that worked with Nikon DSLR's but not with ML - except for a few Olympus bodies.

A big plus of later generation DSLR's is they have increasing numbers of cross type sensors that can detect horizontal as well as vertical detail across the frame.

ML does not detect horizontal detail across the frame that DSLRs often do - making the move to ML an AF challenge without modifying "AF subject detection technique."

With improving body/face/eye technique ML generally moves well ahead of DSLRs - though when there is no subject that ML AI detects and no vertical detail something like a Nikon DSLR can still be better.

When I first got my Z7 (almost 5 years ago ) I had great difficulty getting the Z7 to work as I wanted with Z or F lenses - part because back then eye AF etc had not arrived and part because the size of the Nikon AF detection area was a "one size has to fit all subjects - even though often it does not".

It took me about 6 weeks to get Z7 AF sorted - and for many moving subjects I retained the D850.

When eye AF etc came along I found Z AF good enough with work-arounds when only horizontal detail was available with both F and Z lenses, sold my D850 and gradually moved toward upgrading my F lenses to Z.

As noted, the types of AF operation which would be most negatively impacted by the technical differences between traditional phase detect arrays and mirrorless cameras worked fine on my Z7ii. Putting a single AF point on a subject or a wide area box and thinking of it like the group area AF worked as well or better than doing things like this did on a DSLR. It was the eye detection and related features - uniquely mirrorless features which are mostly in the hands of the processor and on which user choice or action has very little impact - which I always found on the Z7ii and continue to find on the Z8 to be subpar when using F mount lenses.
 
Seamless for me; don't yet own a long Z lens -- do all of my wildlife shooting on the f mount 180-400 tc and f mount 500 pf. Use the 1.4 teleconverter on the 500, often, and no issues with AF at the resulting largest aperture of f8.

PS -- Hey Nikon, ship a 600 tc will ya! :)
 
I used several f mount lenses on my Z9 including the 600 f/4E, Tamron 70-200 G2 f/2.8 and 24/70 f/2.8 and a few others. All newer lenses and all worked better on my Z9 with the ftz than on my D850 and D6.

My photography is primarily run and gun bird Id. When my Z800 arrived 5-1-22 I sold off the last of my DSLR's and f/mount lenses before the price I could get for it dropped a bunch so no recent experience.
 
I used several f mount lenses on my Z9 including the 600 f/4E, Tamron 70-200 G2 f/2.8 and 24/70 f/2.8 and a few others. All newer lenses and all worked better on my Z9 with the ftz than on my D850 and D6.

My photography is primarily run and gun bird Id. When my Z800 arrived 5-1-22 I sold off the last of my DSLR's and f/mount lenses before the price I could get for it dropped a bunch so no recent experience.
How did your new Z mount lens compare to the F-mount equivalent on the Z9?
 
Seamless for me; don't yet own a long Z lens -- do all of my wildlife shooting on the f mount 180-400 tc and f mount 500 pf. Use the 1.4 teleconverter on the 500, often, and no issues with AF at the resulting largest aperture of f8.

PS -- Hey Nikon, ship a 600 tc will ya! :)
How did your new Z mount lens compare to the F-mount equivalent on the Z9?
 
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