Just takes practice. However, that one was a crop
I can consistently shoot frame fillers for slower birds and moderately fast birds, but for songbirds I often need a little more wiggle room. They are QUICK!
Nikon 4.1 Firmware - Initial Field Report
- Thread starter Steve
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I can consistently shoot frame fillers for slower birds and moderately fast birds, but for songbirds I often need a little more wiggle room. They are QUICK!
You have no idea how much I wanted to tell you about the update when I saw your thread / questions
1. Mostly Auto in this case, since it gives the camera the most free reign over the viewfinder. I wanted to see what it would do.
2. Yup, same. I don't think it's unusual, it's just frustrating when you can clearly see the face and it wants to put the square around the body and focus on the grass
@Steve What a great first look video. I really appreciate your effort to dissect how reliable the bird eye-af will be and the situations where it will be challenged. Most interesting is the conditions in which you tested the firmware. Rain and overcast light can be a real problem for tracking movement, and it was clear that the new firmware had little difficulty tracking the flitty movements of the sanderling.
Thanks for posting this quickly... now I have to think about how to program my body to quickly shift between animal eye and bird eye without messing up my current working paradigm.
cheers,
bruce
Thanks for posting this quickly... now I have to think about how to program my body to quickly shift between animal eye and bird eye without messing up my current working paradigm.
cheers,
bruce
ajrmd
Well-known member
Thank you and I applaud you for maintaining your confidentiality. If the new FW functions this well in "auto", it is truly remarkable.You have no idea how much I wanted to tell you about the update when I saw your thread / questions
1. Mostly Auto in this case, since it gives the camera the most free reign over the viewfinder. I wanted to see what it would do.
2. Yup, same. I don't think it's unusual, it's just frustrating when you can clearly see the face and it wants to put the square around the body and focus on the grass
At least for me I find filling the frame is much less an issue with shooting/handling and much more a question of having the subjects close enough, which is something I've not managed to get too often. The birds in the background of this video, for instance, seem fairly well acclimated. Sadly I've not found critters like this anywhere.Just takes practice. However, that one was a crop
I can consistently shoot frame fillers for slower birds and moderately fast birds, but for songbirds I often need a little more wiggle room. They are QUICK!
One question I've had more and more is just what "counts" as filling the frame when taking composition into account. For instance, if I want to give a bird room in the frame to "fly into" so I position the bird so it's taking up the full short side height, have I "filled the frame" adequately for a good quality of image?
Thanks!
Also, to be 100% clear, most of the shooting was not in the rain. The video was shot after the tests.
That wasn't just normal rain - at times I was watching the background to see if a large boat would float by with pairs of animals.Thanks!
Also, to be 100% clear, most of the shooting was not in the rain. The video was shot after the tests.
I can confirm what was reported on DPReview that the new bird and airplane detection was not added to Auto Capture. That seems strange to me.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
i see this with dogs too. i’m often lying on the ground and in that position i’m getting a lot of grass in the foreground. if the grass is a bit long, i often can have trouble tracking the dog reliably. when i run into trouble i switch to c1 and try to omit as much grass from the af area as possible and that helps. that said it’s much better in recent fw than the original ones. i rarely have to go c1 these days. i wonder if part of this is due to the “weighting” towards the center of the frame to prefer subjects there2. Yup, same. I don't think it's unusual, it's just frustrating when you can clearly see the face and it wants to put the square around the body and focus on the grass
Cameron T
Well-known member
99% of the time I'm in a wide area mode (large, small, or one of my custom ones). I never bothered with auto most of the time because the camera can do things I don't want or need it to do.
Bennvdm
Active member
Thanks for the great video Steve. Hopefully by mid 2024 comes by mid April as I always try to go somewhere nice for Easter…
ajrmd
Well-known member
You raise some interesting questions. Depending on where you live or visit the wildlife may be more or less acclimated to human presence. Take the Galapagos for example, where the animals have no fear of humans and one can (though I don't advocate this) walk up to nearly every species. In the Midwest where I live, nearly all large birds are extremely fearful of humans whereas when I visit in FL, the same species allow me to approach them without alarm.
With respect to what counts for filling up the frame, it depends on the subject, composition, FL, and intent. If one is aiming for an environmental image than the subject's size can be quite small. For typical BIF images where I am trying to isolate the subject from its environment and am using a long FL, I aim to have the subject occupy at least 1/3rd to 1/2 the frame, if possible, to minimize the need for extensive cropping and to minimize the effects of atmospherics. Shooting at dots in the sky will yield, with cropping, larger dots in the sky. It takes a fair amount of skill to be able to acquire and track the birds in the EVF especially at longer FL's though with time and practice, it becomes much easier.
I am in central WI and find the animals in general to be very skidding and difficult to get close enough to photograph at 500 or 600mm without a pretty healthy crop. In general, I really want to find some more reliable places for photography in general since I've found only extremely limited options with very little wildlife to see most of the time since getting into this a few years ago.
Great report, Steve! It looked like the results were better than previously with low light exposures when photographing that pied billed grebe.
You covered a lot of ground in a short time. Did you notice improved subject recognition with smaller AF area choices like Wide Large, Wide Medium, and Custom 1? Obviously time was very limited.
You covered a lot of ground in a short time. Did you notice improved subject recognition with smaller AF area choices like Wide Large, Wide Medium, and Custom 1? Obviously time was very limited.
I got the update installed this morning on my Z9. Just finished about 45 minutes at a lake in a nearby county park… not really expecting keepers but eager to check out the new bird subject detection.
Given that it’s midday with harsh sunlight, there wasn’t much avian activity, just a few ducks and house sparrows. Even so, I’m VERY impressed. With my 180-600 I found that AF was nearly totally sticky on head and eyes, not only for perched and slow movement, but also for the erratic flight of the house sparrows.
I’ll give it a better test in coming days. So far, well done Nikon!
And thank you, Steve for sharing your experience. I’m looking forward to your report of a more extensive test.
Yes and no. I almost put this into the video but thought it might be too confusing - and I wanted to test this aspect a little more:
It seems to work well with smaller AF areas BUT there is an issue in the watch area IMO.
With Animal, if we take something like a 1x1 Custom Wide AF area and stick it on the face, subject detection won't go more than 3 or 4 AF points outside the 1x1 area. However, with Bird it seems like this is out the window. On multiple occasions when using 1x1 or Wide Small I noticed that the entire bird was fair game, with subject detection AF area wander ingall over the bird and not just staying corralled near the head (which works with Animal). With Bird, if the AF area is ANYWHERE on the bird subject detection can go anywhere on it that it wants. This is great if it's finding the eye - but not so great if it's going for the body with your 1x1 AF area squarely on the eye. Another reason I still just my RSF for disabling subject detection!
This is something I want to get some ATOMOS footage on and will share here if I can pull it off (I kinda hate using the ATOMOS).
Just FYI, with Wide Small (and Wide Large) I didn’t experience the behavior you described. I’ll review my images to sure, though. It’s a bright day here and the birds were relatively large in the frame at 600mm. Might be different in lower light and smaller subjects in the frame.
Cameron T
Well-known member
I always thought this was the case with how the subject detection worked (well, prior to this update). If I had my wide l box on a heron body, it would often find the eyes anyway.
I'll have to do some testing later.
Wouldn’t surprise me if, after reports from expert wildlife photographers like Steve, that within a couple of months or so there’s another update with refinements to Bird AF. Still, from my brief experience today, I’m quite happy.
Thanks Steve for this video! You look very Bronsé! Nice teint !
Perhaps it's differences in how good you're getting subjects in the frame vs what I have, but I've always found with the 1x1 or other area boxes that the subject detection will consider anything in the frame fair game. If I put the 1x1 on the rear end of a mammal, it will still focus on the eye if it sees it. This is why I have a button set to turn off subject detection- because sometimes I'll put that 1x1 on an animal's face but the camera sees a rock on the ground halfway across the frame as a subject and focus on it instead.
iPhone shot of the back of my Z9. With 1x1 this was abut the limit of where it would stick here. One step up and it would go the back bird. Two clicks left and it would go to the eye of the bird in front. Might have on one click but can't recall.
LOL Decoy ducks in my pool. Inherited from my mom when she passed so they kinda needed a home.
It doesn't always happen - if SD sees the face or eye, it'll stick with it and you won't notice it. However it's also possible it was a minor glitch with the pre-release firmware too
It originally worked that way, then one of the updates sort of restricted the watch area (which is good IMO). When I was playing with it, it seemed to work as I described, but again, limited time for really testing.
Thanks - probably too much time in the sun though!