Interesting - it may have been my firmware then. However, the issue was more likely when I was on the head and it stopped recognizing it - like the bird turned a little. Then, even with the 1x1 area, it would go anywhere and everywhere on the bird.
Nikon 4.1 Firmware - Initial Field Report
- Thread starter Steve
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RonNikon
Member
Used the new Bird AF on the Z 9 to get this Nikon Z 9, Nikon Z 180-200mm
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ajrmd
Well-known member
Super promising. You might want to bump up the Tv for the small, fast ones.
Ad Astra
Well-known member
Zof9
Member
Well, I guess I can shoot long neck birds again 
Dinusaur
Active member
Thanks for a great video. I upgraded Z9 this morning to 4.10 and went out to a local park to shoot Norther Harrier. Yesterday I also took photos of Harriers in flight with 4.01, very much around the same time of the day. I usually stand in one place as the harriers fly around me, low and in front of trees and shrubs, sometimes close and more often far away. Both days conditions and EXIF data are very much the same. In terms of keepers rate 4.10 is slightly better over 4.01, 79% as opposed to 77%. Is it a huge difference? Probably not, but it needs more testing. However, the nirvana I was looking for is not there yet. Here are two consecutive frames of the harrier from today as it flew in. I was using 3D tracking for this series. As soon as the bird came in front of a busy background, the focus jumped to the background and stayed there. May be the next version will do better.
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In your 2nd photo AF appears to have locked on to branches in the foreground. What was your Blocked Shot AF Response set to? If it was set to 3 or higher, setting it to 2 or 1 might help AF to quickly lock on to the bird again.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
yah, so a thought here.
if you look at the af box on the second picture, yes, it's over the bird, but it ALSO includes the shrub in the af box. and the shrub is the closest thing INSIDE the af box.
one thing to think about is even if it can detect the subject, iirc, it's still probably (mostly) using the AF sensors to FOCUS and afaik, af sensors are simple devices that simply focus on the closest thing under them. @Steve ? I know this is probably covered in the book, my bad.
in any case, my main point is that the box shows you where it thinks it's target is, but then if you have obstructions inside that box it becomes a complicated problem for the camera.
if you look at the af box on the second picture, yes, it's over the bird, but it ALSO includes the shrub in the af box. and the shrub is the closest thing INSIDE the af box.
one thing to think about is even if it can detect the subject, iirc, it's still probably (mostly) using the AF sensors to FOCUS and afaik, af sensors are simple devices that simply focus on the closest thing under them. @Steve ? I know this is probably covered in the book, my bad.
in any case, my main point is that the box shows you where it thinks it's target is, but then if you have obstructions inside that box it becomes a complicated problem for the camera.
I have a feeling that the improvements aren't equal across the board. I think in some cases it's really noticeable (I thought it was crazy good with songbirds) and in other cases it may not make much or any difference.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
but even if blocked shot prevented the camera from grabbing the foreground, it (probably) can't ADJUST focus while the shot is blocked in any reasonable way and the bird would continue to move
Pretty typical I think. In my experience the AF sensors work as you describe. It's like SD determines what AF sensors it should use and then the AF sensors focus on what's there.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
yah, that's how i always imagine it works
Agree. But in this case the bird is moving and will clear the branches quickly. Adjusting Blocked Shot AF Response to 2 or 1 should help AF find the bird again in short order.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
agree. it's always a lose to rack focus to the wrong object.
Thanks for this interesting news about this bird (and aircraft) mode for the Z9. And my gratitude for this informative video. Is it also possible that there will be a similar firmware update for the new Zf in the future after the update for the Z8? Or is this Z9/Z8 firmware update technically only possible for these systems or is it from Nikon marketing-wise not desired for the lower level Z bodies?
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John Navitsky
Well-known member
just an educated guess, but it seems feasible MOST features could be shared among the cameras using the same processor. so it seems reasonable that most features COULD be shared on the Zf and the Z8 and Z9.
however it's possible some features require special hardware in which case there may be limits to what can be shared. as an example, it isn't clear at the moment if the new pixel shift feature relies on the new ibis hardware or not. but a solid example of this is you'll never see 120fps evf refresh in the zf because the zf sensor only refreshes fast enough for 60fps. the zf also only has sd cards which are much slower than cfe-b cards, so there will be a limit to video bitrates that can be supported on the zf.
of course, they can limit features simply to differentiate the models, so even if it is possible it doesn't mean it'll happen.
My guess is that Bird and Airplane subject detection (as distinct categories) will not be available on the Zf. On a camera half the price the Z8, there will be functional differences between them. Count the Zf’s Focus Shift Shooting and Focus Point VR as bonuses because of advances in the Zf’s IBIS system.
Of course, I could be wrong!
I‘m speaking out of ignorance here because I don’t shoot mirrorless yet, but I would think you would be better off with a much smaller box than the one you are using. In that way you would avoid the trees while centering on the bird.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
he's using 3d, so the box is basically showing an indication of what the system was tracking
Dinusaur
Active member
If you zoom in you should see that part of bird's tail is covering the tree in focus - the bird is indeed in the foreground. The focus didn't recover in next 18 frames. During the bird's next pass I switched to Wide L, the same thing happened, focus was lost to a background tree as soon as the bird came in front of it but recovered quickly (after 5 frames). 3d seems to have hard time resetting focus compared to Wide L against bright and contrasty background (reddish tree leaves in the photos above). I'll keep your suggestion in mind next time I go out to see if 3d tracking improves.
Just looked closer using my iPad instead of my iPhone. Yes, the bird is indeed in front of the branches. I’ll be on the lookout for this issue with the new firmware.
I’m pretty sure that the 3D mode will use a Blocked Shot AF response of 3, no matter what you have set in. Page 311 of @Steve Z8/9 setup guide.
Ok tree in back; bushes in front. I’m confused. Didn’t the bushes get the focus?