Z lenses on these Red video cameras will be outstanding. Great move Nikon!
Nikon Acquires RED
- Thread starter rangerider
- Start date
If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).
I expect that Nikon will leverage technology from RED to be used in upcoming Nikon-branded products, but allow RED to continue its operations as usual.
EPIC! excellent news
If Red cameras work well with the RF mount, it makes sense that the Nikon Z mount could also work. It would be reasonable to offer a choice of RF or Z mount for cameras. That would also open up use of all the Nikon Z lenses.
It's certainly possible that Red sales could evolve into a Cinema Camera and Lens sales unit. In many places they could leverage Nikon distribution channels. The Z lenses could be used both on Red cameras and a wider lineup that includes Nikon Z9 and Z8 cameras. Even the lowly Z30 could use the same lens kit and might have a place.
Nikon's remote camera technology is also interesting for cinema cameras. The ability to network and control cameras applies to both cinema cameras and traditional photo cameras.
The Red sensor and compression technologies are of obvious interest. The RAW video compression is already in the Z9, and this opens the door to further advances. The sensor technology might be useful in photo cameras.
Nikon has made a number of acquisitions over the past 6-8 years. The expansion of the optical line of devices and cameras is an important area in the medical field.
Maybe one of the more interesting areas is how this fits organizationally. Most likely you would put cinema cameras with photo cameras in the Imaging group. The group is best positioned to leverage the technology, development, R&D, and distribution. But 200 Red employees are insignificant in a line of business like Imaging, and there is a risk that they will be overlooked. Nikon's stated strategy is to leverage technologies and production across multiple products, so if they put Red in the Imaging group, the idea most likely will be more integration of products and markets.
It's certainly possible that Red sales could evolve into a Cinema Camera and Lens sales unit. In many places they could leverage Nikon distribution channels. The Z lenses could be used both on Red cameras and a wider lineup that includes Nikon Z9 and Z8 cameras. Even the lowly Z30 could use the same lens kit and might have a place.
Nikon's remote camera technology is also interesting for cinema cameras. The ability to network and control cameras applies to both cinema cameras and traditional photo cameras.
The Red sensor and compression technologies are of obvious interest. The RAW video compression is already in the Z9, and this opens the door to further advances. The sensor technology might be useful in photo cameras.
Nikon has made a number of acquisitions over the past 6-8 years. The expansion of the optical line of devices and cameras is an important area in the medical field.
Maybe one of the more interesting areas is how this fits organizationally. Most likely you would put cinema cameras with photo cameras in the Imaging group. The group is best positioned to leverage the technology, development, R&D, and distribution. But 200 Red employees are insignificant in a line of business like Imaging, and there is a risk that they will be overlooked. Nikon's stated strategy is to leverage technologies and production across multiple products, so if they put Red in the Imaging group, the idea most likely will be more integration of products and markets.
I expect that those licensing deals will be unaffected, at least in the short to medium term. Why would Nikon damage the business prospects of a company it just acquired? Nikon needs cash flow and market share growth. RED can help provide both.
I agree completely. The business opportunities afforded by this acquisition are substantial. Smart move by Nikon!
FB101
Well-known member
Another great move by Nikon. It's hard to not be impressed with how far they have come in the last 5 years, from a company controlled by engineers with no strategy (at least in the imaging division) to what we are seeing now - singularly obsessed (in a good way, call it focus) with things that matter to their target audiences.
This will be one of those Harvard Business Review articles at some point demonstrating the power of sharp strategy aligned with obsessive execution (we all know the downside, that same set-up usually completely misses market shifts).
As an avid study of corporate strategy and execution, and the million ways to fail, I am having a blast watching them succeed. How they will integrate though, will be very interesting - it can unleash a lot of potential or it can be a disaster. If they keep thinking first about what their target customers need, they'll do OK. If they get dogmatic... it will just be another failed M&A transaction (which BTW are more common than successful ones).
This will be one of those Harvard Business Review articles at some point demonstrating the power of sharp strategy aligned with obsessive execution (we all know the downside, that same set-up usually completely misses market shifts).
As an avid study of corporate strategy and execution, and the million ways to fail, I am having a blast watching them succeed. How they will integrate though, will be very interesting - it can unleash a lot of potential or it can be a disaster. If they keep thinking first about what their target customers need, they'll do OK. If they get dogmatic... it will just be another failed M&A transaction (which BTW are more common than successful ones).
100%.
Today, Nikon doesn't make a single cine lens. Neither does RED. Canon does and introduces new ones monthly, Sony, meh, nothing to write home about, Fuji is huge.
RED has essentially two cameras: the Kommodo, which is small, under 10k, used by solo practitioners and as crash-cam on big production and has an RF mount. It competes with the C70 and FX6. Then they have the Raptor which is for crews and feature films A-roll. A rigged one is probably 50k. That one has a PL or LPL mount. It goes against the Arri Alexa and Sony Venice and Burano.
There is a huge opportunity to put a Z mount on the Kommodo side by side with RF, assuming the license with Canon permits it, then introduce internally-made or acquire a cine lens company and make PL mounts.
Next acquisition should be Atlas Lens Co.
Wow!!! That is NEWS!!!
Now Nikon can sue everyone else using raw.... lol....
Now Nikon can sue everyone else using raw.... lol....
Or trade for patient rights
If RED does get the Z mount, does it mean we will finally get to know the true T-Stop of the Z f/1.2 lenses?
I’m curious…
I’m curious…
Alistair
Well-known member
I expect Nikon will introduce a Cine lens range to RED's requirements, possibly branded RED and available in Z and RF mounts, possibly E and PL mount too.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Well, this week's surprise has rattled the utuber talking heads, to repeat the same sound bites, recite the press release etc
2 articles fyi
fstoppers.com
bythom.com
2 articles fyi
The Endless Possibilities Now That Nikon Has Acquired Cinema Camera Manufacturer RED
I woke up this morning to some pretty exciting news. Nikon, the legendary still camera manufacturer, has agreed to purchase RED, the company behind some of the most popular cinema cameras on the market today. Now, I should say that I first heard of this via a post from a satirical Instagram...
Nikon Acquires RED | Cameras and Photography Explained | Thom Hogan
RED digital cinema is acquired by Nikon
fcotterill
Well-known member
It will be interesting to read an informed cost-benefit analysis of how Nikon can technically continue to sell cameras with non-Nikon lens mounts, particularly their stated reason is to “accelerating expansion in [the] professional digital cinema camera market.”
Three areas of intrigue, among others, include:
Expanding the use base of Nikon's Z mount is a core strategic objective, particularly if it leverages sales of expensive Z mount lenses, but runs up against the paradox if new RED cameras have Canon's RF mount;
Are there not legal snags of Nikon profiting from selling their cameras with an RF mount, which suggests Canon will stop the original RF licensing to RED?
However, stopping the option of RED cameras offering the RF mount versus Z risks alienating the existing user base of high end cinematography, particularly if one is invested in very expensive optics;
Three areas of intrigue, among others, include:
Expanding the use base of Nikon's Z mount is a core strategic objective, particularly if it leverages sales of expensive Z mount lenses, but runs up against the paradox if new RED cameras have Canon's RF mount;
Are there not legal snags of Nikon profiting from selling their cameras with an RF mount, which suggests Canon will stop the original RF licensing to RED?
However, stopping the option of RED cameras offering the RF mount versus Z risks alienating the existing user base of high end cinematography, particularly if one is invested in very expensive optics;
realspeed
Well-known member
maybe nikon will go into the camcorder side of things
John Navitsky
Well-known member
i’m not a lawyer, but i think typically existing deals are still valid
Change of control is a common termination cause, especially for situations like this. However, this was a cross-licenasing contract, and while not public involved RED giving Canon access to its RAW. Bottom line, the parties will have to sit down together.
The more I think about it, the more I'm becoming convinced this is just an IP grab and has nothing to do with cameras or lenses.
Data points.
1. Running the numbers in my head, comparing revenue/employees between Nikon and RED puts RED at $50 million. That's nothing. A restaurant in Las Vegas pulls that. So it's probably higher and the revenue comes from licensing, not selling bodies.
2. Has anyone seen a RED in the wild recently? I dont think I've seen one since COVID (and I get around). Who is buying them? My understanding is that rental houses liquidated their inventory during COVID and are stocking up on Venice and Alexas, not Raptors.
3. In the various forums and websites I follow, the reaction to articles is almost unanimously negative. In addition to the trolls, and RED has lots of them, these are primarily Kommodo customers/would be customers. So all of us Nikon Fanboys think that our brand is great, but to the customers RED sells, it'll be like OM Systems buying Nikon.
In short, I now believe this is simply a delayed disclosure to the settlement reached back in April when the case was dropped. The patents are running out, it's a tiny little company, the owner is old and rich. He had to say, "fine, buy me."
Does it have any implications to Nikon's ambition in video. Maybe, but not as important as what I thought at first before realizing RED only sells a handful of cameras. The only significant technology is possibly their new sensor. And obviously IP although I don't know if that's technology or just IP.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Nimi, You know the film industry better than most of us here on BCG. However, RED is a strong brand, based on the its use in prominent by films high profile personalities eg Peter Jackson. Its market share peaked at 25% apparently but is still not to be dismissed. It was rated as 2nd to Arri in 2018 (admittedly pre pandemic)
The technology in their hardware is cutting edge - eg two of the RED sensors have 17 stops of Dynamic Range and a global shutter, respectively etc.
www.nyfa.edu
The technology in their hardware is cutting edge - eg two of the RED sensors have 17 stops of Dynamic Range and a global shutter, respectively etc.
How RED Cameras Changed The Game
As digital cameras have become the norm in 21st century movies and production work and more and more films and clients want their projects shot in 4K
www.nyfa.edu
The use of digital vs celluloid film on Hollywood movies
Three years ago, I looked at Hollywood’s switch from shooting on film to using digital acquisition methods. Since then, I have received a number of questions about the topic. Some are requests to update the piece with more recent data while others ask for more detail on how the use of digital...
stephenfollows.com
Film vs digital - What is Hollywood shooting on?
John from Israel emailed me to ask what format most Hollywood films are shot on – film or digital. The question is rather topical as recently we’ve seen a number of high profile films choose to shoot on film, including Star Wars: The Force Awakens and The Hateful Eight. I looked at the cameras...
stephenfollows.com
Last edited:
Nimi, You know the film industry better than most of us here on BCG. However, RED is a strong brand, based on the its use in prominent by films high profile personalities eg Peter Jackson. Its market share peaked at 25% apparently but is still not to be dismissed. It was rated as 2nd to Arri in 2018 (admittedly pre pandemic)
The technology in their hardware is cutting edge - eg two of the RED sensors have 17 stops of Dynamic Range and a global shutter, respectively etc.
How RED Cameras Changed The Game
As digital cameras have become the norm in 21st century movies and production work and more and more films and clients want their projects shot in 4K
The use of digital vs celluloid film on Hollywood movies
Three years ago, I looked at Hollywood’s switch from shooting on film to using digital acquisition methods. Since then, I have received a number of questions about the topic. Some are requests to update the piece with more recent data while others ask for more detail on how the use of digital...stephenfollows.com
Film vs digital - What is Hollywood shooting on?
John from Israel emailed me to ask what format most Hollywood films are shot on – film or digital. The question is rather topical as recently we’ve seen a number of high profile films choose to shoot on film, including Star Wars: The Force Awakens and The Hateful Eight. I looked at the cameras...stephenfollows.com
The market changed completely since 2018, with the introduction of the Arri Alexa LF in 18 and the 35 in 22; and Sony Venice II in 22. There are barely any Raptors in the last two Oscar. The new Raptor X was supposed to bring it back, but from what I hear that wasn't happening and this recent development isn't helping. One buyer I spoke to canceled his Raptor order and ordered a Sony Burano (mini-Venice) instead. From what I'm seeing, this has been a two-horse race last year with a wild-card, and now just a two-horse race.
The Kommodo is competitive in the sub-$10k catagory, but just go on any RED blog, reddit, etc and see what the reaction is. Nikon is known as the Potato Company among these rabid fans, and they will not stick around. It was always a quarky, not always stable camera, with a following to match. A solo R3D shooter today, who has a few RF lenses, will most likely switch over to a C70. New shooters upgrading from a hybrid to a cine have four or five other options today, and that before all the forthcoming refreshs from Sony (FX4, FX6ii)
Nimi, You know the film industry better than most of us here on BCG. However, RED is a strong brand, based on the its use in prominent by films high profile personalities eg Peter Jackson. Its market share peaked at 25% apparently but is still not to be dismissed. It was rated as 2nd to Arri in 2018 (admittedly pre pandemic)
The technology in their hardware is cutting edge - eg two of the RED sensors have 17 stops of Dynamic Range and a global shutter, respectively etc.
How RED Cameras Changed The Game
As digital cameras have become the norm in 21st century movies and production work and more and more films and clients want their projects shot in 4K
The use of digital vs celluloid film on Hollywood movies
Three years ago, I looked at Hollywood’s switch from shooting on film to using digital acquisition methods. Since then, I have received a number of questions about the topic. Some are requests to update the piece with more recent data while others ask for more detail on how the use of digital...stephenfollows.com
Film vs digital - What is Hollywood shooting on?
John from Israel emailed me to ask what format most Hollywood films are shot on – film or digital. The question is rather topical as recently we’ve seen a number of high profile films choose to shoot on film, including Star Wars: The Force Awakens and The Hateful Eight. I looked at the cameras...stephenfollows.com
Here is '23 Oscars. And I think all three RED mentiones were as b-roll or crash-cam for an Arri.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
I don’t think Nikon will allocate any of it’s lens development resources to producing lenses using other lens mounts.
Agree. There is a whole ecosystem for the PL mount that Nikon cannot compete in without an acquisition. They should rehouse existing Z mount lenses in cine-form and if they decide not to mothball the R3D Kommodo, switch it over to Z, which is actually hard because they have to move the sensor.
rangerider
Member
I'm not up-to-speed in the filmmaking world, but I do have a hard time believing Nikon would signal to the world its intent to jump into the cinema space if it was merely an IP grab. What you are saying, Nimi, does make sense to me from a business perspective. In the press release, however, they state towards the end that this acquisition "will enable the development of distinctive products in the professional digital cinema camera market." PRs contain loads of rhetoric and hyperbole, I get that, but if this was indeed just an IP grab then I'm afraid Nikon miscalculated how their customers might react to this news. Time will tell, I guess. I remain hopeful and look forward to Nikon showing indications of their plans.
We dont know how many cameras Red sells vs their licensing revenue and we don't know how little Nikon paid for it. That's the essence of the business case.
Strategically it's a head-scratcher. I can put a PowerPoint deck to explain why it's a good idea and a longer one explaining the opposite.
There is no overlap in the customer base. RED Kommodo customers, if they use a hybrid, are Canon shooters. RED Raptor customers are rental houses that don't carry stills cameras. So I read what they say, but with a grain of salt/roll of eyes.
Let's see what they do with it. In the meantime, RED Kommodo comes off the list of "possibly getting."