Nikon Acquires RED

[abc123brian]

I use mine for the B-roll and timelapse. Its files are as good as the Z9 and most importantly the match.

Good to know. Any rolling shutter concerns with it compared to the Z9? I do wish it had a 4k 120 option. it sounds like the 4K 60p IQ is more impacted for iso than the Z9 from what I was reading. I like the higher frame rates for wildlife, slow motion. I haven’t shot any video on the Zf other than one test clip to compare the IBIS to my Z8/Z9 which is impressive. I want to dedicate one camera to video in the future. Depending on the Z6 specs, maybe a second Zf might be a candidate.

 

[Nimi]

Good to know. Any rolling shutter concerns with it compared to the Z9? I do wish it had a 4k 120 option. it sounds like the 4K 60p IQ is more impacted for iso than the Z9 from what I was reading. I like the higher frame rates for wildlife, slow motion. I haven’t shot any video on the Zf other than one test clip to compare the IBIS to my Z8/Z9 which is impressive. I want to dedicate one camera to video in the future. Depending on the Z6 specs, maybe a second Zf might be a candidate.

I haven't notices but everything I shoot with it is slow.

 

[Calson]

Good move on Nikon's part that has been trailing Sony and Canon for years with pro level video equipment. RED's patents are what provides the most value for Nikon. Good for RED as they get new funding for products without needing to go public.

 

[fcotterill]

Shot on RED

Discover the impressive list of blockbuster films and hit TV shows shot on RED Digital Cinema cameras. From action-packed thrillers to stunning wildlife documentaries, see a sampling of the productions that have used RED cameras to bring their stories to life.

www.red.com

 

[fcotterill]

This acquisition has intriguing implications for wildlife Cinematography, including new cameras and optics

Documenting Nature: Cinematography in the Wild - The American Society of Cinematographers (en-US)

The RHINO V-Raptor Might be RED’s Gate for Wildlife Filmmaking - Y.M.Cinema Magazine

Super 35 can be used as a professional synonym for broadcasting and wildlife cinematography. As proof, RED Digital Cinema has called its new S35 8K camera, RHINO. RED wants to simplify the hassle for wildlife cinematographers, by making the camera and lenses more compact, light, and affordable...

ymcinema.com

Wildlife Cinematography: Capturing the Power of Nature With RED and Cooke - Y.M.Cinema Magazine

We’re lucky enough to get a glimpse into a wildlife cinematography work. In this case-study, Seven Worlds, One Planet cinematographer Mark MacEwen gives us some essential tips on how to capture the power of nature by using high-end cinema cameras and lenses. High-end wildlife filmmaking...

ymcinema.com

Welcome To Earth

www.red.com

 

[fcotterill]

One question is if Nikon will release high ratio zooms optimized for video... so similar to the Canon 50-1000mm, with useful versatility for filming wildlife documentaries. Nikon surprised us with the new Z Telephotos, which have set benchmarks to match... So the tele zoom design realm is another space to watch

https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/journals/optical-engineering/volume-60/issue-05/051211/Evolution-of-zoom-lens-optical-design-technology-and-manufacture/10.1117/1.OE.60.5.051211.full#_=_

 

[Nimi]

This young film-maker summarizes the situation well, and coming from a Komodo-owner perspective.

 

[Nimi]

One question is if Nikon will release high ratio zooms optimized for video... so similar to the Canon 50-1000mm, with useful versatility for filming wildlife documentaries. Nikon surprised us with the new Z Telephotos, which have set benchmarks to match... So the tele zoom design realm is another space to watch

https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/journals/optical-engineering/volume-60/issue-05/051211/Evolution-of-zoom-lens-optical-design-technology-and-manufacture/10.1117/1.OE.60.5.051211.full#_=_

They should, but it won't be like this one. I know it's been taken to Africa to shoot with, but the 10x and 20x zooms are more typical broadcast lenses, S35 sensor coverage, "just" 4k resolving power, manual focus, and $70k. Something like the Fujinon ZK series maybe.

 

[DavidT]

I think over time you’ll see some tech get to Nikon and some will end up at Red but I think they will stay in their swim lanes. If Red wants their own glass line to compete Nikon could sure help in that respect.

It’s very common for companies to have a steak in competitors business. Did you know companies like Toyota for example actually own stock in their competitors?

 

[O]

Nikon Red acquisition and whats behind it all.
Is Red needs Nikon or Nikon needs Red or both need each other ?

Time is the only real way of finding out whats next or behind the boards rational for proceeding with this move to acquire Red and equally so for the board of RED.

You usually make an acquisition or merger for a) financial benefits, b) growth, c) technology rights, d) opportunity e) market protection. f) bargain buy acquire raid flip. g) political reasons.

Nikon has the approach often but not always to allow others to develop new technology or make strategic moves then follow,
its often cheaper than developing your own R and D.

Lets face it can often be cheaper to buy a fit than develop one, then build on it.

The big question is what to exactly do with this new acquisition or is it even an acquisition or more a partnering ?, who knows, the outcome of the move is more the question that again only time will tell.

WE think beauty, Nikon's going to do this or that getting more into the video or cinema market and that may be the case,
in fact it may have nothing to do with what Nikon will do so much getting into the cinema market as it may be that Red wants to get into the 35mm video market and more likely with good optical camera lens manufacturer like Nikon who is hungry for growth and has great lens and colour management technology.

Growth comes from innovation, mergers or acquisition, so was it Nikon looking for a fit or Red looking for a fit, or was it mutual, oh the wheels turn LOL.

The timing of this all on the back or Red loosing its law suite against Nikon may have a hand it all who knows or really cares, but RED has made the decision to move with Nikon .........WHY ? is on everyone's lips.

Red getting acquired by Apple didn't fly ??? or was that click bait, so was it Red needs to grow diversify or get left behind, Nikon is looking for high margin growth and already available new technology that is or can be patented, this is also a stepping stone for innovation, possibly ?, lets face it Nikon has taken a long while to play catch up, just when the game is moving onto the next level.

Endless speculation is warranted that often brings hope for exciting things to come, for both companies.

Red may well be a new vehicle to fly the Nikon Z8 Z9 flags under a rebranded RED market, with mutual spin offs to the Nikon consumer market, a next level Z8 Z9 who knows.

We know Nikon provides excellent optics especially seeing its their core business.

Nikon makes better glass than they make cameras (hello Red)

One thing for certain is prices will climb, yet as always we will gladly pay.

Margin is sanity volume with low margin is insanity.

Lets see what happens exciting times ahead.

Only an opinion

 

[JoelKlein]

Since i’m not into the professional cinemaphotography. May I ask about the meaning of the lingo?

Crash-cams
A-roll
B-
etc.
thank you!

 

[Nimi]

Since i’m not into the professional cinemaphotography. May I ask about the meaning of the lingo?

Crash-cams
A-roll
B-
etc.
thank you!

Crash cams: cheaper cameras that no-big-deal if they are lost. A rigged Arri Alexa is $120,000. A Komodo is $10,000. In action sequences or on a drone, you're more likely to use a Komodo. Komodo started out as a crash cam but was adopted by content creators as their main camera.
A-roll: the main action is taken on that camera, in a feature film or big budget documentary that's invariably an Arri Alexa or Sony Venice. Think of a dialog between two a-list actors, that's an A-roll.
B-roll: shot side by side at a different angle, or on its on. That's the fill-in you see in movies.

 

[JoelKlein]

Crash cams: cheaper cameras that no-big-deal if they are lost. A rigged Arri Alexa is $120,000. A Komodo is $10,000. In action sequences or on a drone, you're more likely to use a Komodo. Komodo started out as a crash cam but was adopted by content creators as their main camera.
A-roll: the main action is taken on that camera, in a feature film or big budget documentary that's invariably an Arri Alexa or Sony Venice. Think of a dialog between two a-list actors, that's an A-roll.
B-roll: shot side by side at a different angle, or on its on. That's the fill-in you see in movies.

Thank you Nimi.
I have a question;
If RED is at the edge in sensor technology, What is the reason they’re not at the top fully rigged up for A-roll?

 

[Nimi]

Thank you Nimi.
I have a question;
If RED is at the edge in sensor technology, What is the reason they’re not at the top fully rigged up for A-roll?

Three folds. First, they only recently introduced this sensor, which is great, but no better than the competition. Second, they are going against a true giant, Arri. Given a budget, any DP would take an Arri over anything else. Third, their cameras traditionally aren't that reliable. A feature film costs about $150 million to make. One hour downtime is crazy expensive.

My perception of RED is that the hype doesn't quite match the product, and I actually don't think they sell a lot of cameras. The expensive ones are sold to rental houses, not individuals, and they all have Arri and Venice and Panavision, and the new Raptor-killing Sony Burano is now shipping, so I don't think RED brings much to the table at that end. On the content creator side (sub $10k) they are going with essentially 1 model, with dubious reliability against Sony's 4 models, Canon's four models, Blackmagic, Panny, Z Cam, Kinefinity, soon Fuji, and that's before you count the hybrids that are getting there on image quality, internal RAW, 4k/120, etc.

 

[rangerider]

Three folds. First, they only recently introduced this sensor, which is great, but no better than the competition. Second, they are going against a true giant, Arri. Given a budget, any DP would take an Arri over anything else. Third, their cameras traditionally aren't that reliable. A feature film costs about $150 million to make. One hour downtime is crazy expensive.

My perception of RED is that the hype doesn't quite match the product, and I actually don't think they sell a lot of cameras. The expensive ones are sold to rental houses, not individuals, and they all have Arri and Venice and Panavision, and the new Raptor-killing Sony Burano is now shipping, so I don't think RED brings much to the table at that end. On the content creator side (sub $10k) they are going with essentially 1 model, with dubious reliability against Sony's 4 models, Canon's four models, Blackmagic, Panny, Z Cam, Kinefinity, soon Fuji, and that's before you count the hybrids that are getting there on image quality, internal RAW, 4k/120, etc.

This is one of the reasons why I think they'll milk the RED brand for as long as possible but essentially use it for parts. RED was on the decline in Hollywood anyway. They're not all that respected but have a niche loyal creator following who will likely stick with Canon since they're mostly RF mount users. I personally think RED's days are numbered here and the founder and Jarred Land will move on to new things. Time will tell. It's a great acquisition for Nikon no matter what if they're building their own cinema line.

 

[JoelKlein]

Three folds. First, they only recently introduced this sensor, which is great, but no better than the competition. Second, they are going against a true giant, Arri. Given a budget, any DP would take an Arri over anything else. Third, their cameras traditionally aren't that reliable. A feature film costs about $150 million to make. One hour downtime is crazy expensive.

My perception of RED is that the hype doesn't quite match the product, and I actually don't think they sell a lot of cameras. The expensive ones are sold to rental houses, not individuals, and they all have Arri and Venice and Panavision, and the new Raptor-killing Sony Burano is now shipping, so I don't think RED brings much to the table at that end. On the content creator side (sub $10k) they are going with essentially 1 model, with dubious reliability against Sony's 4 models, Canon's four models, Blackmagic, Panny, Z Cam, Kinefinity, soon Fuji, and that's before you count the hybrids that are getting there on image quality, internal RAW, 4k/120, etc.

Firstly, Thank you for the explanation. It’s truly interesting.

Reading your assessment, Nikon did RED a favor…

If Nikon really wants to compete against Arri, they have the resources to do so. Just like they did with the Z9 in the stills world. Nobody saw or believed Nikon could come from being behind, pushing to the top with a shutterless body. FW updates like we have never seen before.

Roll back the memory a fue years pre pandemic. Nikon dropped a roadmap. Add in the pandemic, add in supply chain issues, chips shortages, etc. now at 2024 they did it! The Z9/8 are winners! The Z lenses S and non-S line up are beyond expectations! And they are clearly saying we will get surprises.

With those accomplishments behind their belt, I won’t be surprised to read about a high budget feature film shot with a new top of the line RED or Nikon rig. Arri, Sony and Canon should not underestimate this move.

And taking about hybrids, The Z9 is no ordinary hybrid in terms of performance, reliability and optical quality. Imagine a Z9 with some prime lenses rehoused ready for a rig.

There is a reason NASA chose Nikon and the Z9 for a historical moon landing. That tells something.

 

[Nimi]

Firstly, Thank you for the explanation. It’s truly interesting.

Reading your assessment, Nikon did RED a favor…

If Nikon really wants to compete against Arri, they have the resources to do so. Just like they did with the Z9 in the stills world. Nobody saw or believed Nikon could come from being behind, pushing to the top with a shutterless body. FW updates like we have never seen before.

Roll back the memory a fue years pre pandemic. Nikon dropped a roadmap. Add in the pandemic, add in supply chain issues, chips shortages, etc. now at 2024 they did it! The Z9/8 are winners! The Z lenses S and non-S line up are beyond expectations! And they are clearly saying we will get surprises.

With those accomplishments behind their belt, I won’t be surprised to read about a high budget feature film shot with a new top of the line RED or Nikon rig. Arri, Sony and Canon should not underestimate this move.

And taking about hybrids, The Z9 is no ordinary hybrid in terms of performance, reliability and optical quality. Imagine a Z9 with some prime lenses rehoused ready for a rig.

There is a reason NASA chose Nikon and the Z9 for a historical moon landing. That tells something.

I don't think Nikon wants to be in Hollywood. It's a small, rarified world completely out of Nikon's ecosystem and RED is not the way to break in even if they wanted to. They can try to buy Arri or Panavision (a camera manufacturer that only rents, not sells cameras) or a cine lens company.

The target market for Nikon video is probably the ICCs (independent content creation), and there RED name might help. That's also the market where hybrids matter and lines between product categories blur.

 

[fcotterill]

Fyi

A Seismic Shift: The Ramifications of Nikon's RED Acquisition

When you can't beat 'em, buy 'em.

petapixel.com

 

[JAJohnson]

The target market for Nikon video is probably the ICCs (independent content creation), and there RED name might help. That's also the market where hybrids matter and lines between product categories blur.

Is think @Nimi is correct. I also expect the development of Z mount adapters for RED cameras (assuming licensing between RED & Canon doesn’t prevent it), and Z mount cine lenses. And, of course, Nikon will leverage RED’s IP in its hybrid cameras.

Once the deal closes, this should all accrue to Nikon’s benefit. It appears to me to be a reasonable business risk. I look forward to hearing more about this from Nikon’s leadership during their annual report discussion in May.

 

[Alistair]

This transaction calls into question the conventional wisdom in Nikon circles that RED capitulated in its legal battle with Nikon over compressed internal RAW. Rather, it is more likely that a mutual accommodation reached between RED and Nikon at the time. Such accommodation probably included some sort of collaboration. If true, I wonder how well progressed such a collaboration is and whether we can expect any new products arising from it in the near term.

 

[Nimi]

This transaction all calls into question the conventional wisdom in Nikon circles that RED capitulated in its legal battle with Nikon over compressed internal RAW. Rather, it is more likely that a mutual accommodation reached between RED and Nikon at the time. Such accommodation probably included some sort of collaboration. If true, I wonder how well progressed such a collaboration is and whether we can expect any new products arising from it in the near term.

A step further. RED, the Company, is no longer (assuming the acquisition is consumated). I think we already have R3D RAW since the last firmware.

Nikon stepped up, threatened to put its financial resources which are much greater than RED to invalidate the patent. RED blinked and is now history.

 

[abc123brian]

I know it’s common for companies to be dissolved after acquisition, but just searching Nikon’s acquisitions it looks like they are still up and running. I have nothing invested in RED so not a big concern for me personally, but I don’t see anything that makes me think they will put an end to RED.

 

[Nimi]

I know it’s common for companies to be dissolved after acquisition, but just searching Nikon’s acquisitions it looks like they are still up and running. I have nothing invested in RED so not a big concern for me personally, but I don’t see anything that makes me think they will put an end to RED.

R3d is two business: licensing and cameras. If the camera business is losing money or requires major R&D infusion, it goes. Also, nothing ties the employees to the business barring some major stay-bonuses and contracts and Sillicon Valley economy is red hot.

 

[Alistair]

I know it’s common for companies to be dissolved after acquisition, but just searching Nikon’s acquisitions it looks like they are still up and running. I have nothing invested in RED so not a big concern for me personally, but I don’t see anything that makes me think they will put an end to RED.

I tend to agree. Even MRMC who they bought 8 years ago are operated completely independently. I imagine they are delighted to get the talented employees that RED undoubtedly have and they will bend over backwards to retain them. The CEO maybe not so much, he seems like a loose cannon (Canon?) to me. The current Nikon management seem quite enlightened.

 

[fcotterill]

At least 3 of Nikon's recent acquisitions has been a partial investment, so the relationship is more about collaboration

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