Nikon long glass question...

[joe43]

There is a lot of good info and thoughts already posted.

I now have the Z9, Zmount 600mm pf (just got it) and the Z mount 100-400mm S. For me the 100-400mm is more flexible to use than the 70-200mm f2,.8 S that is heavy.

If I needed a 70-200mm I would use my F mount 70-200mm f4 with the FTZII adapter or consider getting the Z mount 70-180mm f2.8. The 70-180mm is much lighter than the 70-200mm f2.8. Some say it is just as sharp as the 70-200mm f2.8.

If you shoot a lot of images at 400mm, I would suggest you check out the Z mount 400mm f 4.5.

 

[Kjellis]

I think the 100-400 gets talked down as usual. I for my part love this lens and I use 90% at 400mm. I had both the 100-400 and 400/4.5 for about 9 months and I sold the 400/4.5 as in real world usage I didn’t feel any difference in sharpness was an issue.
But I had to sell one of them to finance the 600 TC and I sold the 400/4.5. I do miss the 400/4.5 as it’s a great and a little lighter than the 100-400. I may add it to my kit again at one point.

 

[Amy]

I did not read all the comments, but have all of the same lenses of you + the 400mm 2.8. The 2.8 has been a game changer for me. I can hand hold it, most of the time, and am embracing the tripod when needed for long periods of time. The low light difference is just incredible. I really loved the 400 4.5 before this, but havn't touched it since I got this one a year ago. I sold my 800mm because I like the 400 with the TC added better and still better aperture. I sold my 180-600mm. I seriously almost never use anything else. It's a beast, but you will never regret it. If you want to see my images my instagram is the best place. Most of the last year are taken with that. @pointamesandshoot

 

[Activert]

Hi all,

I am Frank, from Switzerland, and this is my first post here. Have been reading for a lot longer, but i like some feedback on a question i am pondering.

My current equipment for wildlife is:

Z9 + Zf + 135mm + 100-400mm + 800mm. Also own the TCs.

I had good results with this (no surprise here). But the 100-400 shows weakness in this chain. For one, i mostly use it at 400mm or 560mm (with the 1.4, i only use the 2x on a 70-200mm). The picture quality is fine, but the AF speed/tracking is noticeably not as good as the other lenses.

So i am thinking to replace this. If i need 0... 400mm i could use the 70-200mm with a converter.

Now I am thinking about 2 different approaches, both start with selling the 100-400mm.

a) get the 400 f4.5 and the 600 f6.3. Together with the 800mm i should have a decent setup.
b) sell also the 800mm and just get the 400mm 2.8 as the one and only.

What speaks in my mind against this b) is that, when on Safari, e.g., i always have a backup body (either a Z8 on loan or my Zf) with a lens. so i could mount 600 + 400 easily. Also, i don't look forward to the nearly 6 pounds with the 400 2.8.

Anyone else pondered this? Anyone (outside of Jared Polin) who can hand held the 400 2.8 for long periods of time (i notice the 800mm after a few hours, and i can not hold that for more than 10min in a row)? Or is this "get a tripod always with you" solution? Anyone has the 3 lighter lenses and how is that working out?

And, if you have the 400 f4.5, how would that compare to the 70-200mm with a 2x converter?

If there is a thread that already ponders this, i have not really found it (outside of some very old ones about a part of the problem). And note, I do not take the financial aspect into consideration - i assume if i go either route that this will last me a very long time, so it's worth it either way.

Frank

Welcome to our Forum.
Regarding the 400 f 4.5, I have this lens and it is really very light and very sharp. I have also the 70-200 f2.8, but I don’t use it anymore with tc. In the past before I got the 400, I used it with 1.4 tc and the result were good. Now I don’t use external tc at all. I use all my lenses in their focal lens, except my Z 600 Tc which most of the time I am at 840 mm (tc engaged) when I am shooting birds.
You mentioned in b) getting the 400 f 2.8 I believe TC. This is really amazing lens and with the 600 tc, they are the best lenses Nikon ever made. You will love it. For the weight, the more you practice, the better you become with handheld.
In the beginning I could only handheld my 600 tc for few minutes at a time and it is little heavier than the 400tc. Now I only shoot with it handheld and sometimes all day long. I only use it on tripod when I want to take videos.
Z9 +400 tc, is the best combination for wildlife photography.
Lina

 

[Phil Seu]

I had the 100-400 but never really grew to love it. Exchanged it for a 70-200 and am much happier. It is an astoundingly good lens. I have TC primes for longer reach.

 

[sinewsworn]

I'd dump the 100-400 for the 180-600. It's heavier, but better iq.

As for going for the 400 2.8, it's an amazing lens, but heavy, and unless you really need the extra light and thinner dof you can get 85%+ of the iq (especially downsized for web) other ways.

My ideal setup is the 180-600 and 800 pf, so you're ahead of me there.

You might wish to rethink 180-600 having better IQ than the 100-400.

 

[Cameron T]

You might wish to rethink 180-600 having better IQ than the 100-400.

No, I don't think I do. Based on testing, the 180-600 is better from 200 onward.

 

[nmerc_photos]

You might wish to rethink 180-600 having better IQ than the 100-400.

it's pretty common knowledge that the 180-600 has better IQ than the 100-400.

ESPECIALLY if you're at comparable long focal lengths (IE 100-400 + 1.4x)

 

[Roy]

Hi all,

I am Frank, from Switzerland, and this is my first post here. Have been reading for a lot longer, but i like some feedback on a question i am pondering.

My current equipment for wildlife is:

Z9 + Zf + 135mm + 100-400mm + 800mm. Also own the TCs.

I had good results with this (no surprise here). But the 100-400 shows weakness in this chain. For one, i mostly use it at 400mm or 560mm (with the 1.4, i only use the 2x on a 70-200mm). The picture quality is fine, but the AF speed/tracking is noticeably not as good as the other lenses.

So i am thinking to replace this. If i need 0... 400mm i could use the 70-200mm with a converter.

Now I am thinking about 2 different approaches, both start with selling the 100-400mm.

a) get the 400 f4.5 and the 600 f6.3. Together with the 800mm i should have a decent setup.
b) sell also the 800mm and just get the 400mm 2.8 as the one and only.

What speaks in my mind against this b) is that, when on Safari, e.g., i always have a backup body (either a Z8 on loan or my Zf) with a lens. so i could mount 600 + 400 easily. Also, i don't look forward to the nearly 6 pounds with the 400 2.8.

Anyone else pondered this? Anyone (outside of Jared Polin) who can hand held the 400 2.8 for long periods of time (i notice the 800mm after a few hours, and i can not hold that for more than 10min in a row)? Or is this "get a tripod always with you" solution? Anyone has the 3 lighter lenses and how is that working out?

And, if you have the 400 f4.5, how would that compare to the 70-200mm with a 2x converter?

If there is a thread that already ponders this, i have not really found it (outside of some very old ones about a part of the problem). And note, I do not take the financial aspect into consideration - i assume if i go either route that this will last me a very long time, so it's worth it either way.

Frank

I dont even try to handhold my 400mm f2.8.
Although slower the 400 f4.5 is much more practical.
If I didn't already gave the 600mm f4 and the 180-600mm then I'd love the 600 PF - its light and sharp.
On safari you may find the 70-200 the most appropriate lens ..

 

[Jadiehl]

Hi all,

I am Frank, from Switzerland, and this is my first post here. Have been reading for a lot longer, but i like some feedback on a question i am pondering.

My current equipment for wildlife is:

Z9 + Zf + 135mm + 100-400mm + 800mm. Also own the TCs.

I had good results with this (no surprise here). But the 100-400 shows weakness in this chain. For one, i mostly use it at 400mm or 560mm (with the 1.4, i only use the 2x on a 70-200mm). The picture quality is fine, but the AF speed/tracking is noticeably not as good as the other lenses.

So i am thinking to replace this. If i need 0... 400mm i could use the 70-200mm with a converter.

Now I am thinking about 2 different approaches, both start with selling the 100-400mm.

a) get the 400 f4.5 and the 600 f6.3. Together with the 800mm i should have a decent setup.
b) sell also the 800mm and just get the 400mm 2.8 as the one and only.

What speaks in my mind against this b) is that, when on Safari, e.g., i always have a backup body (either a Z8 on loan or my Zf) with a lens. so i could mount 600 + 400 easily. Also, i don't look forward to the nearly 6 pounds with the 400 2.8.

Anyone else pondered this? Anyone (outside of Jared Polin) who can hand held the 400 2.8 for long periods of time (i notice the 800mm after a few hours, and i can not hold that for more than 10min in a row)? Or is this "get a tripod always with you" solution? Anyone has the 3 lighter lenses and how is that working out?

And, if you have the 400 f4.5, how would that compare to the 70-200mm with a 2x converter?

If there is a thread that already ponders this, i have not really found it (outside of some very old ones about a part of the problem). And note, I do not take the financial aspect into consideration - i assume if i go either route that this will last me a very long time, so it's worth it either way.

Frank

Frank,
I have a Z8 with the 24-120mm f/4, 100-400mm and 600mm PF. I am considering adding some faster lenses to the mix, including the 400mm f4.5. I love the lightweight and sharp 600pf and am not willing to spend the money to get tc lenses. I am also looking at the 70-200mm f/2.8 and the 800mm PF, among others to add to my kit. There are times the 100-400 is perfect for sports and it is lighter than the 180-600mm, though I still go through that trade in my head… there are some interesting thoughts presented here. I will be interested to hear what you decide to do.

 

[Anjin San]

Frank,
I have a Z8 with the 24-120mm f/4, 100-400mm and 600mm PF. I am considering adding some faster lenses to the mix, including the 400mm f4.5. I love the lightweight and sharp 600pf and am not willing to spend the money to get tc lenses. I am also looking at the 70-200mm f/2.8 and the 800mm PF, among others to add to my kit. There are times the 100-400 is perfect for sports and it is lighter than the 180-600mm, though I still go through that trade in my head… there are some interesting thoughts presented here. I will be interested to hear what you decide to do.

I just sold my 400/4.5 because it wasn’t getting used. With the 600PF and the TC in my pocket I’m covered for long here in FL and also in Serengeti recently. I had the 100-400 t(ere but added the 180-600 as well…and sold the 400 and 70-200 as they never get used. The 70-200 would have been way too short in Serengeti…I used my 24-120 for a couple dozen but outside of that I probably shot about half with the 100-400 and rarely below 200 and the remainding half with the 600, about half of those with the TC.

 

[TheObserver]

So.. this weekend I rented the 400 f2.8 TC. Sadly the weather was not great, beside this Saturday morning, which i used to go to the Zoo early on, and in the afternoon i did some dreadful darkgrey skies bird in flight shots, just to see how often i can get good results (due to weight etc).

Looking at the results I am very, very pleased. (the 2 attached are just exported out of the camera, no edits). The color rendition and the ability to pull the subject out of it's background is just amazing. Would not have been able to do that with the 100-400 at 5.6, or the 800 at 6.3. I know, i tried those in the past.

In the afternoon, the birds in flight shots in bad weather allowed me to go 1/2500 with around 200 iso. That's very nice. AF is super fast, and the ability to track a bird and just magnify it a bit potentially really useful.

Going to compare some similiar shots tomorrow, but it won't be a surprise to anyone that this is the best lens I ever used. Maybe.. beside the Plena. That thing is also a stellar lens.

Anyhow. I now know i can handheld that thing pretty much as long as i can handheld the 800PF. Not a big difference. The image quality is superb. It's certainly more useful than just the 400 F4.5, just because of the buildin TC.

So i can either get the 400 + 600 and keep the 800. Or sell the 800 and get the 400 TC. That's probably close to the same money (given that pricepoint, 1K more or less does not really matter that much). My wife told me I should just get the 400TC, because who knows how long i am able to handheld that thing (i turned 60 this year). Love my wife Still not convinvced, will take some hours of considering the options.

Frank

 

[Jadiehl]

So.. this weekend I rented the 400 f2.8 TC. Sadly the weather was not great, beside this Saturday morning, which i used to go to the Zoo early on, and in the afternoon i did some dreadful darkgrey skies bird in flight shots, just to see how often i can get good results (due to weight etc).

Looking at the results I am very, very pleased. (the 2 attached are just exported out of the camera, no edits). The color rendition and the ability to pull the subject out of it's background is just amazing. Would not have been able to do that with the 100-400 at 5.6, or the 800 at 6.3. I know, i tried those in the past.

In the afternoon, the birds in flight shots in bad weather allowed me to go 1/2500 with around 200 iso. That's very nice. AF is super fast, and the ability to track a bird and just magnify it a bit potentially really useful.

Going to compare some similiar shots tomorrow, but it won't be a surprise to anyone that this is the best lens I ever used. Maybe.. beside the Plena. That thing is also a stellar lens.

Anyhow. I now know i can handheld that thing pretty much as long as i can handheld the 800PF. Not a big difference. The image quality is superb. It's certainly more useful than just the 400 F4.5, just because of the buildin TC.

So i can either get the 400 + 600 and keep the 800. Or sell the 800 and get the 400 TC. That's probably close to the same money (given that pricepoint, 1K more or less does not really matter that much). My wife told me I should just get the 400TC, because who knows how long i am able to handheld that thing (i turned 60 this year). Love my wife Still not convinvced, will take some hours of considering the options.

Frank

Where are you seeing the 400 f/2.8 near the price of an 800pf?

 

[TheObserver]

Sorry. This was confusing. I have the 800pf.

My calculation is: either sell 800pf and buy 400tc. Or just buy 600pf and 400 f4.5.

Either of those will be close in terms of cash burn.

Frank

 

[Jadiehl]

Sorry. This was confusing. I have the 800pf.

My calculation is: either sell 800pf and buy 400tc. Or just buy 600pf and 400 f4.5.

Either of those will be close in terms of cash burn.

Frank

OH! Got it! And here I was hoping you found a way to make the 400tc affordable!!!

 

[TheObserver]

OH! Got it! And here I was hoping you found a way to make the 400tc affordable!!!

I wish.

 

[TheObserver]

Just to update: I ordered the 400 TC and will keep the 800PF for a while just to see if it get's any more use once i pick up the new lens next week. And to make this a gift that keeps on giving, i ordered the Zemlin hood & cap (have this for the 800PF, so much nicer), my life-guard protectors.. and am planning a safari or an eagle hide shoot in autumn .

Frank

 

[Jadiehl]

Just to update: I ordered the 400 TC and will keep the 800PF for a while just to see if it get's any more use once i pick up the new lens next week. And to make this a gift that keeps on giving, i ordered the Zemlin hood & cap (have this for the 800PF, so much nicer), my life-guard protectors.. and am planning a safari or an eagle hide shoot in autumn .

Frank

Congratulations!

 

[mdirvin]

Just to update: I ordered the 400 TC and will keep the 800PF for a while just to see if it get's any more use once i pick up the new lens next week. And to make this a gift that keeps on giving, i ordered the Zemlin hood & cap (have this for the 800PF, so much nicer), my life-guard protectors.. and am planning a safari or an eagle hide shoot in autumn .

Frank

Just stumbled across this thread. I have all the lens you were thinking about, 70-200, 400 f4.5, 600 f6.3, 400 TC, and 600 TC. You will love the 400 TC it's my go to lens. With the TC, and 8ft MFD...It does create some issues mainly the size and weight can be burdensome when waiting & watching. I have managed that using a monopod as a walking stick with an RRS MH-01 head.

 

[msuengben]

Just to update: I ordered the 400 TC and will keep the 800PF for a while just to see if it get's any more use once i pick up the new lens next week. And to make this a gift that keeps on giving, i ordered the Zemlin hood & cap (have this for the 800PF, so much nicer), my life-guard protectors.. and am planning a safari or an eagle hide shoot in autumn .

Frank

It is a great combination! I have the 400 TC and 800 PF. Enjoy!

 

[Calson]

I had the 100-400mm and the 400mm f/4.5 and found I was seldom taking the 400mm prime lens and sold it. I find myself using a 1.4x teleconverter with a 400mm focal length when photographing birds and that is 560mm or a little less than the 600mm PF. The 600mm PF focuses much faster and eye detection is noticeably better on my Z9 as compared to the 100-400mm with the 1.4x TC.

I tried the 180-600mm for a time but prefer the lighter 100-400mm and the 600mm PF lenses. It is a very good lens and a value at its price but I tend to carry two lens in the field and on wildlife photo trips and this changes the math.

My long lens is the 800mm PF which is relatvely light at 5.2 lbs and is the heaviest I can manage without a tripod.

 

[Wrogu]

400/2.8 TC = 14499€ (and will never drop)
so, 7645€ vs. 14499€

I looked at Geizhals.at :
400/4.5 = 2883€
600/6,3 =4762€
400/2.8 TC = 14499€ (and will never drop)
so, 7645€ vs. 14499€
hm, I don't know if I am practical but I was also looking at 400TC ... mainly becasue of its ability to convert to 560mm and of course, the quality!
I inherited 400/2.8 FL from my partner who is now using 400/4.5 and I must say that 400 FL is amazing lens but very heavy if you are running with it! Last year I was in Chitake Springs, Zimbabwe running / walking with that lens . On the second day I was out of power and switched to 500 PF. 400FL has quite a good VR but after hand-holding it and simply carrying it for two days .. ufff.. the hands are shaking and muscles are in pain. and the tempererature +43C so, I was done.
So, you should keep in mind that you need to use 1/800 at least and mostly you use 1/1000-1/1600sec anyway and probably don't need a tripod. The problem is to get it to position, to get a subject in IVF and to hold a few minutes (even seconds!) It is not the problem of shaken photos becasue with high shutter speed you will probably even will not use VR but the problem is of shaken hands - conmose, recompose, follow the subject etc..

But if I had money I would probably buy 400TC.

I have also 100-400 and 180-600 and was shooting with both. Why not 400/4.5? Because I am taking video footage as well and need to zoom it out! So, 400mm is often too long! And when I was changing from photo to video it was a bit longer (or cropped) so, I always needed to zoom out.
I bought 180-600 also becasue I shoot video. You just need to have a zoom! And I zoomed a lot in my videos.

If you don't shoot video than go for primes! All three lens 400/4.5 , 600/6.3 and 800/6.3 are definitelly excellent! My partner has 400/4.5 adn 800/.6.3. The quality is stunnning.
I must say also a very interestning thing: I noticed that f2.8 was not enough in many ocasions! However, I love to separate my object from background. I need just all the time to keep in mind a DoF table while shooting with 400/2.8 !
Instead with f4.5-5.6 I don't even need to think about it!
The other disadvantage of 400/2.8 is missing shots! It is big, heavy and until I will get into position the animal is gone or the situation is changed.

I am preparing for my next Africa trip and knowing the locations I just made a plan what I will be shooting and where. I would recommend to do the same. For example, if you are on the Chobe river shooting birds then it will be z8+600 (and not 800 becasue it wil be difficult to hold it for a long time, with 600 you are just better - also to get flying subject into IVF) . If you are in the national park where no off-road permitted than it will be z8+800. If you go for sun-downer than 70-200/2.8 and so on ...
If you are not a self-driver than you need to take in account that there are other people in vehicle and it will be difficult to use 400/2.8 ... you will just turn it and somebody will drop out of the car to the lions ...
So, well.. if you ask me than go for 400/4.5 , 70-200, TCs, 600 and 800. You will see, on Safari you will be using 70-200 and 400 at most ;-)

400Z 2.8 is 11,5k @idealo.de at the moment.