Nikon Z 400mm/4.5 vs. 600mm/6.3 PF

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Larry S. said:
I’m considering the purchase of the 600PF. I have the 400 and really like this lens. I occasionally use the 1.4TC which bumps it to 560mm which also brings max aperture to f/6.3. Not sure the hefty price tag of the 600mm is worth the extra 40mm…🤔 I’m aware that with the 600+1.4TC=840MM which would really extend reach.. Opinions please as to expectations of performance.
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One can find what ever one wants or needs to hear if we browse the internet long enough.
Self realization is the single most powerful tool we have.
The internet can help greatly with making a decision or choice easier equally it often can create more indecision for many of us.


Only an opinion
 
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arbitrage said:
If you have the time, could you take a picture of the 400 with 1.4TC attached standing next to the 600? I'd like to see how close they are in size. Also if you could weigh those two combos I'd like to see how close they are in weight. According to B&H weight specs they should be within 50 grams of each other. Hard to use the specs for length as the TC is much longer than what it actually adds as so much sticks into the rear of the lens.
Thanks
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Sorry, I was out all day and it looks like your questions have been answered in some following posts and Ricci’s video.
 
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KP Birder said:
Sorry, I was out all day and it looks like your questions have been answered in some following posts and Ricci’s video.
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I made the decision to get the 600PF. It arrived 2 days ago and I’ve been doing the Snoopy “Happy Dance” on the roof. It’ everything I need for what I do with “C&C” (that’s Critters & Camera).…. and having fun. No buyer’s regrets whatsoever…🤩
 
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wotan1 said:
You will be very happy with the 600 pf.

It has been my experience that when you get to 600mm or above special attention needs to be paid to get the performance your lens is capable of rendering.

While there is a lot of talk about being able to hand hold these lenses with VR, getting full performance at these lengths requires special attention and VR does not mean you can shoot these lenses as you would a 50mm lens. You often have to use much higher shutter speeds and you may have to shoot bursts in order to get at least one good image.

Using a tripod and gimbal head where possible is highly recommended whenever possible.

Steve Perry in his Birds in Flight guide has a lot to say about what you need to do to get sharp images with these long lenses. Strongly recommend that book.
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Well said !!
 
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I realize many will see things differently. My take on this issue is that I see that no matter what you choose there will be compromise. I am just getting into the z system and have sold much of my older gear to upgrade. I have the z8, the 100-400 zoom and the 400f4.5 along with both teleconverters. I am in .Bosque Del Apache and have been able to give this gear a good workout.
For me the cost and weight of the big glass makes them a non issue although I well realize you will get the sharpest and best images from these lenses. I have been using the 400 f 4.5 mostly with the 1.4tc and also with the 2x tc. I have found that surprisingly I can in fact get some decently sharp images with the 400-2x combo in spite of the bad reviews. The thing is you are shooting at f9 meaning your iso quadruples. You need good light and good technique to handhold this combination which I only do. The 600pf is no doubt better but it’s still at f9 if you want 800mm (840). So the same issue applies. I find the 400 with the 1.4tc to be quite sharp and I like having low light options you get with a 4.5f lens With decent reach. Then180-600 is more versatile but it’s a heavy beast to handhold. Then100-400 is a lovely little lens and is plenty long for bigger stuff Plus it has good close focus for insects etc. The 800pf is obviously the better choice for 800mm but for me I’m often in need of shorter reach and it’s a beast to handhold. The 600pf is on my wish list but at 5k it will be a while.
 
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macwalter said:
I realize many will see things differently. My take on this issue is that I see that no matter what you choose there will be compromise. I am just getting into the z system and have sold much of my older gear to upgrade. I have the z8, the 100-400 zoom and the 400f4.5 along with both teleconverters. I am in .Bosque Del Apache and have been able to give this gear a good workout.
For me the cost and weight of the big glass makes them a non issue although I well realize you will get the sharpest and best images from these lenses. I have been using the 400 f 4.5 mostly with the 1.4tc and also with the 2x tc. I have found that surprisingly I can in fact get some decently sharp images with the 400-2x combo in spite of the bad reviews. The thing is you are shooting at f9 meaning your iso quadruples. You need good light and good technique to handhold this combination which I only do. The 600pf is no doubt better but it’s still at f9 if you want 800mm (840). So the same issue applies. I find the 400 with the 1.4tc to be quite sharp and I like having low light options you get with a 4.5f lens With decent reach. Then180-600 is more versatile but it’s a heavy beast to handhold. Then100-400 is a lovely little lens and is plenty long for bigger stuff Plus it has good close focus for insects etc. The 800pf is obviously the better choice for 800mm but for me I’m often in need of shorter reach and it’s a beast to handhold. The 600pf is on my wish list but at 5k it will be a while.
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Good feed back thank you.

Its amazing the options before us, applications, range of tools available, DSLR, Mirror less, new generation of lenses, stills on the slide, video on the rise.................amazing period in evolution.

Despite all, the fundamentals are for me.

a) enjoy what i am doing
b) select the right tools for what i want to achieve, be it buy them or rent them.
c) use the right tools for the purpose they have been designed for.

Above all remember things may be new and technically advanced, the end results comes still largely from only time light and speed in the right combination.

Light small is awesome, but gee if F2.8 or F4 primes deliver is it worth the compromise of weight and size, i mean the DSLR glass cost is super cheap at the moment.

Nikon has a great selection of glass to choose from.

Only an opinion
 
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macwalter said:
I realize many will see things differently. My take on this issue is that I see that no matter what you choose there will be compromise. I am just getting into the z system and have sold much of my older gear to upgrade. I have the z8, the 100-400 zoom and the 400f4.5 along with both teleconverters. I am in .Bosque Del Apache and have been able to give this gear a good workout.
For me the cost and weight of the big glass makes them a non issue although I well realize you will get the sharpest and best images from these lenses. I have been using the 400 f 4.5 mostly with the 1.4tc and also with the 2x tc. I have found that surprisingly I can in fact get some decently sharp images with the 400-2x combo in spite of the bad reviews. The thing is you are shooting at f9 meaning your iso quadruples. You need good light and good technique to handhold this combination which I only do. The 600pf is no doubt better but it’s still at f9 if you want 800mm (840). So the same issue applies. I find the 400 with the 1.4tc to be quite sharp and I like having low light options you get with a 4.5f lens With decent reach. Then180-600 is more versatile but it’s a heavy beast to handhold. Then100-400 is a lovely little lens and is plenty long for bigger stuff Plus it has good close focus for insects etc. The 800pf is obviously the better choice for 800mm but for me I’m often in need of shorter reach and it’s a beast to handhold. The 600pf is on my wish list but at 5k it will be a while.
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Your points are relevant to this lens choice.. Z400/4.5+1.4tc vs. Z600PF. Both put you at f/6.3.…. 560 vs. 600 is not the “elephant in the room” for me. The 40mm difference is minimal and didn’t factor into my decision. I bought the 600PF and have been using it exclusively since it arrived a week ago. One photographer that responded early on made a VERY RELEVANT POINT. He/she said “if your tele-converter is spending more time glued to the 400 than not,…. you have the wrong lens”. I have both lenses. If I find infrequent or nil need for the 400/4.5 going forward I will sell it. When I got my Z9 and decided to sell the F500PF, I bought the 400/4.5 to go with it. The 600PF wasn’t even rumored at the time…. Longer and affordable non-native glass was not considered. We’ll see….🤔
 
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My progression is that I have the 70-200mm f2.8 but quickly realized it was too short for a lot of what I like to do. I was going to get the 180-600 but the waiting line was interminable. I finally canceled my order. My choice then was either the 100-400 zoom or the 400mm f4.5 prime. I love prime optics so I went with the prime.

When I got that lens I fell in love. I went back recently and looked through some of my shots and fell in love again.

Soon however I found myself in the situation where I just did not have enough reach. So when the 600mm pf came out I was one of the early purchasers. I fell in love all over again.

But in birding sometimes 600 is not long enough. I used the 1.4 tc and got quality images but yet again there was a lot happening that was still out of reach.

I finally decided I needed to add the 800 pf to my inventory. I bought one and it is arriving tomorrow. I have rented that lens before and I have seen what it can do.

Once I have and work with all three of these I will see how it all works out. I could sell one or two and get a zoom but more than likely not.

I think in looking at everything with money no object the perfect solution for birding would be the 600mm tc vr plus something shorter perhaps even the 180-600.

I may one day go there but truth be told I am pretty happy with my current inventory
 
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wotan1 said:
My progression is that I have the 70-200mm f2.8 but quickly realized it was too short for a lot of what I like to do. I was going to get the 180-600 but the waiting line was interminable. I finally canceled my order. My choice then was either the 100-400 zoom or the 400mm f4.5 prime. I love prime optics so I went with the prime.

When I got that lens I fell in love. I went back recently and looked through some of my shots and fell in love again.

Soon however I found myself in the situation where I just did not have enough reach. So when the 600mm pf came out I was one of the early purchasers. I fell in love all over again.

But in birding sometimes 600 is not long enough. I used the 1.4 tc and got quality images but yet again there was a lot happening that was still out of reach.

I finally decided I needed to add the 800 pf to my inventory. I bought one and it is arriving tomorrow. I have rented that lens before and I have seen what it can do.

Once I have and work with all three of these I will see how it all works out. I could sell one or two and get a zoom but more than likely not.

I think in looking at everything with money no object the perfect solution for birding would be the 600mm tc vr plus something shorter perhaps even the 180-600.

I may one day go there but truth be told I am pretty happy with my current inventory
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Sadly, 400mm just wasn't enough reach for me, so I parted w/ both the 100-400 and 400 4.5 this year after months of bringing them along on shoots and rarely using them. When I do look back on the 400 4.5 shots I did manage to get though, they're some of my favorite, and in fact one is gracing the cover of my book that I recently had made! A small, growing voice inside of me is potentially wanting to give the 400 4.5 another go, and if a refurb so happens to appear, I just might be tempted. T'would make a nice kit w/ the 600PF for going ultra-light.
 
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Matthew, It sounds like you’re having seller’s remorse. I may be considering the sale of the 400 also but haven‘t let go just yet. One thing for sure, the 1.4TC is NOT going back on the 400. Like you, if I find I’m not using it for any situations there is no reason to keep it…
 
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ricardo00 said:
I assume the 800mm PF is out of the question? On my last trip (a trip to the Serengeti), I loved having the 800mm on my Z8 and the 400mm on my Z9. But that was on a safari so not having to carry the two. Also for driving around (ie. Pt Reyes), the 800mm gives me the extra reach. Have considered the 600mm PF myself but think (for now) will just use my 400mm with the 1.4TC for hikes.
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I am planning a trip in south east Africa and struggle a lot if I bring my 800 pf… (weight and size) I have the 100-400 and a tc 1.4… I will buy a Z6iii as second camera with my Z9… how difficult it was to have the 800PF (many told me that it is too much reach… or bring it.. this lens is so good!)
 
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Skye.prf said:
I am planning a trip in south east Africa and struggle a lot if I bring my 800 pf… (weight and size) I have the 100-400 and a tc 1.4… I will buy a Z6iii as second camera with my Z9… how difficult it was to have the 800PF (many told me that it is too much reach… or bring it.. this lens is so good!)
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The weight of the 800mm PF is much less than many other lenses that others have (400mm f/2.8, 600mm f/4) and less then even my 300mm f/2.8 which I previously brought to Kenya. So weight is not a problem. I was on a photographic safari so lots of room in my safari vehicle, 1 person per row so the size was not a problem. So, personally, the 800mm was fine and used it for more than half my shots in Tanzania as you can see on my Tanzania album on my flickr site:
www.flickr.com

Tanzania:2023

Explore this photo album by ricardo00 on Flickr!
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
 
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ricardo00 said:
The weight of the 800mm PF is much less than many other lenses that others have (400mm f/2.8, 600mm f/4) and less then even my 300mm f/2.8 which I previously brought to Kenya. So weight is not a problem. I was on a photographic safari so lots of room in my safari vehicle, 1 person per row so the size was not a problem. So, personally, the 800mm was fine and used it for more than half my shots in Tanzania as you can see on my Tanzania album on my flickr site:
www.flickr.com

Tanzania:2023

Explore this photo album by ricardo00 on Flickr!
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
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Reading the comments… 50% bring it… 50% not… but most of the not does not seem to have this lens😂… at this point… I manage to bring it. Thanks!
 
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I think if you are hiking and handholding the 800pf is too much for guys like me who are slightly built and over 75. I have handled that lens and it is big. I love the 400f4.5 and it does fine with the 1.4tc. I also love the 600pf and it does fine with the 1.4tc. When in Bosque last year I only had the 400f4.5 and both TCs. It did well even at 800mm but the 600pf at 840 is better still. You need good light and the atmospheric conditions can be brutal in the heat of the day making any long shot useless. Also internal flights in Africa limit baggage. I would take the 600pf the 100-400 and the 1.4tc if I go back. I have two z8s. And an iPhone for landscape Shooting in raw.
 
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I like to think of it this way, if I need a focal length like 600mm but have a 400mm with 1.4tc attached 50% or more of the time , then I have the wrong lens. If your use case for 560-600mm is less than 50% of the time then stick with with 400 with 1.4tc. Otherwise your better off with the native 600.
That said , if you have equal use case for both 400 & 600...then time for a loan. Haha...you'll want both :)
 
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macwalter said:
I think if you are hiking and handholding the 800pf is too much for guys like me who are slightly built and over 75. I have handled that lens and it is big. I love the 400f4.5 and it does fine with the 1.4tc. I also love the 600pf and it does fine with the 1.4tc. When in Bosque last year I only had the 400f4.5 and both TCs. It did well even at 800mm but the 600pf at 840 is better still. You need good light and the atmospheric conditions can be brutal in the heat of the day making any long shot useless. Also internal flights in Africa limit baggage. I would take the 600pf the 100-400 and the 1.4tc if I go back. I have two z8s. And an iPhone for landscape Shooting in raw.
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Agree...the 600pf is unusually good with the 1.4tc @ 840mm
 
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macwalter said:
I think if you are hiking and handholding the 800pf is too much for guys like me who are slightly built and over 75. I have handled that lens and it is big. I love the 400f4.5 and it does fine with the 1.4tc. I also love the 600pf and it does fine with the 1.4tc. When in Bosque last year I only had the 400f4.5 and both TCs. It did well even at 800mm but the 600pf at 840 is better still. You need good light and the atmospheric conditions can be brutal in the heat of the day making any long shot useless. Also internal flights in Africa limit baggage. I would take the 600pf the 100-400 and the 1.4tc if I go back. I have two z8s. And an iPhone for landscape Shooting in raw.
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Pierre said he is planning a trip to South East Africa. I assumed this was a safari, not a hiking trip. Personally, I also don't hike with the 800mm PF though I know some people who do. For a hiking trip, I would also go with the 600mm PF, 500mm PF or even the 400mm f/4.5 with a TC. But for riding around on a safari, people bring 600mm f/4TC lenses, 400mm f/2.8 TCs or, in my case, the 800mm. I found the later great for the beautiful birds and small mammals that we couldn't get close to (bat-eared foxes, mongooses, servals and even an aardwolf we saw one evening at dusk).
 
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That makes sense if you are on a photography trip. I have never had the luxury of being on one, just normal safari trips where people use less formidable gear. If you have that luxury I would probably rent a 600f4tc Rather than try to own one. I have had good luck with birds using lenses of the 600mm size but bigger never hurts for sure. A trip to Africa is a major expense and not something I can do often. That being said if I could afford it I would go every year!
 
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Thanks for the posts. I have been using the 500pf on my z8. I tried the 180-600, but its to heavy for my cervical issues. Length also of lens causes distress on upper back next morning! I also had the 200-500 with my d7500 and it was heavy, so when I bought the 500pf it was like WOW. I have had the z400 on and it it super sized and weight, but just need more reach, often. I am 69 and I am an enthusiast, no money comes in. My hobby. So the cost of the 600pf is troublesome , and used 500pf value had dropped. I wish I could have bought one for current prices used 3 years ago! SO, ftzii and 500pf is about 1/2 lb more than z600. Really is the z600 that better at AF compared to 500pf?
 
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I used the 400f4.5 with the 1.4tc exclusively in Equador. It did just fine. This lens and the z8 are for me the perfect combo in terms of weight and balance. That being said the 600pf feels way better to me on the z8 than the 500pf and is sharpest wide open. I agonized over selling my 500of but I have to say I am glad I did. Like you it is a hobby for me but I like good results and comfort. I’m 76. I also really like the control ring options and use them a lot.
 
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