Nikon Z8 Banks - Really poor implementation of user settings or am I missing something?

[Robert.Panick]

Banks have always been the way they are…as have user modes. While there are differences in what settings are remembered depending on model…the key difference is that banks are not static (they remember the last thing you did) and user modes are (they go back to what was saved on selection or power on). Nothing wrong with either approach though. It would be nice to have more banks, and nice to be able to name/save multiple settings files…but we can’t have them…it could be a space limitation or a how the menus are arranged limitation or just a we’ve always done it that way limitation. One just has to learn and seal with whatever your model uses…and it is unlikely that Nikon or any other vendor will ‘fix’ the problem they don’t think exists.

I did a Save on my settings then looked at the file, it was around 300 KB, we aren't talking about a lot of data. But I think you may have hit the issue, they've always done it that way, and getting them to listen to user feedback has always been a problem. Of course, Nikon isn't alone there, all the camera makers have the same problem when it comes to listening to feedback, or should I say not listening. As near as I can tell Nikon doesn't even have a way to submit feedback.

 

[Robert.Panick]

Video settings very definitely need their own banks.

The Z9 update is possibly going to launch an overdue overhaul of the Banks, as well as fine-combing and updating the menu organization: including moving lost items into more appropriate categories.

For example the Photo main menu has become very broad in scope.

A Capture main menu, including all Focus settings, might work better as a stand alone Main menu of settings

Some of the switches to confirm settings and submenu choices also need a rethink (eg I don't think I'm the only user who finds saving/confirming the RSF settings in the submenu to be counter intuitive).

Thom Hogan's Z9 review has more details about this Lost Cheese challenge.

I suspect this is the article you are referencing.

Where the Z8 and Z9 Still Miss | Thom Hogan

Nikon's still missing some Z8 and Z9 options

www.zsystemuser.com

 

[fcotterill]

I suspect this is the article you are referencing.

Where the Z8 and Z9 Still Miss | Thom Hogan

Nikon's still missing some Z8 and Z9 options

www.zsystemuser.com

Yes and follows on this review, with updates

Nikon Z9 Camera Review | Thom Hogan

Review of the Nikon Z9 mirrorless camera

www.zsystemuser.com

 

[JAJohnson]

A new flagship camera should provide an opportunity for Nikon to resolve several ongoing frustrations Nikon photographers have had for some years now. Commentators such as Thom Hogan has written about them, and we’ve chewed over them here on BCG and on other forums, too. While I expect Nikon will incorporate a faster processor, a revised sensor, improved autofocus, and compelling video capabilities, those things are “table stakes” to compete for industry viability. I’m not confident that Nikon will do much to reimagine its camera menus or provide UI enhancements which will make camera usage more efficient and intuitive.

No one would be happier than me if I’m wrong. But from what I know now, I don’t think I’m wrong at all. So, I’m finding ways to get the most out of the tools Nikon has provided currently and I’m tempering my expectation for changes such as we’ve discussed on this thread.

We’ll see what happens.

 

[Anjin San]

I did a Save on my settings then looked at the file, it was around 300 KB, we aren't talking about a lot of data. But I think you may have hit the issue, they've always done it that way, and getting them to listen to user feedback has always been a problem. Of course, Nikon isn't alone there, all the camera makers have the same problem when it comes to listening to feedback, or should I say not listening. As near as I can tell Nikon doesn't even have a way to submit feedback.

It isn’t just camera makers…Apple, Samsung, et. al….theyre all the same. IMO it’s an outgrowth of the perpetual focus on next quarter numbers rather than the long term health of the product and company.

 

[Robert.Panick]

It isn’t just camera makers…Apple, Samsung, et. al….theyre all the same. IMO it’s an outgrowth of the perpetual focus on next quarter numbers rather than the long term health of the product and company.

I wish I could disagree with you. The only exception I've seen is with some of the software companies. I know Microsoft takes feedback seriously, it doesn't mean they always fix the issues, but they try to track it.

 

[Lance B]

All that being true, adding an option for the user to say "always return to my saved settings" would not restrict having everything be free flowing.

I've been saying this for years but to no avail. Nikon should allow for saving them like U1, U2 are saved and I just can't understand the obstinance as to why they don't. There should be two setting types - U1, U2, U3 etc which are saved and stay that way when you come back to them for those that like that system, and an updated simpler way the user banks work as they do now for the other's that like that system.

At the end of the day, U1, U2 are just and extension of amateur settings on entry level cameras like "Landscape", "Portrait", "Sports", "Macro" etc. However, you can go into these "pre-sets" and alter them as you see fit for the purpose. I mean, they may be looked down upon as "idiot modes" but they are great for a base to start from and you can still go into those settings and alter them to suit the application. The only issue with U1 and U2 you have to remember what you set them to, like U1 for "Landscape", U2 for "Portrait" etc. The little symbols mean you don't have to remember, they show you.

 

[Anjin San]

they may be looked down upon as "idiot modes"

I never looked at them as idiot modes…just as known starting points…I had one for action and one for waterfalls. Either got changed as needed for a shot but a power up or reselection got ,e back to the known starting points. Banks are basically the same except the remembering the last thing you did…so keeping one bank as the known starting point to copy into other banks or more easily just save the settings and then reload so you know where you’re starting today. Once using banks for awhile…them being what they were 5 minutes ago works about as well as modes.

 

[jeanaclin]

Happy New Year! When first using the Z8 and setting the banks, it was confusing to say the least. After reading Steve's amazing guides, as well as watching Hudson Henry's videos, I had a slightly better understanding of setting the banks. After a trip to Botswana this past summer (and trusting what I had learned about the banks), I could see the usefulness abnd practicality of the banks. With wildlife shots , and necessitating often patiently waiting for such, having the ability to turn off the camera (with current settings ready) and for saving battery, thus being able to turn it back on and have the settings needed immediately (without having it switch to baseline settings) was a lifesaver. I also found that setting wildlife settings on Shooting bank A and Custom Bank A was very helpful. Additionally, I wanted different settings for birds in flight and wanted to switch rapidly between wildlife and BIF. What I found helpful was setting the Fn2 button with Custom Controls Shooting with Recall shooting functions with the BIF settings i wished. Thus, with the press of the Fn2 button, I could 'toggle' between the wildlife and BIF settings. Of course, this would work with any combination one might want, such as wildlife/landscape, etc). I do agree, though, that It still would be a nice functionality to touch a button to reset back to baseline; however, above is the best workaround I could find.

 

[dabhand16]

With wildlife shots , and necessitating often patiently waiting for such, having the ability to turn off the camera (with current settings ready) and for saving battery, thus being able to turn it back on and have the settings needed immediately (without having it switch to baseline settings) was a lifesaver.

Exactly the reason why I liked banks. Funnily enough, when I only had banks on my Nikon dSLRs I always yearned for the ability for a restet to base settings on power off, but with my Nikon Z6ii and its U modes I curse the reset to base that costs me shots when I've been waiting for something to happen with the camera turned off.

On my Fuji XH-2s I have 7 custom (U equivalent) modes and have a menu option to either rest to base settings on turn off, or remember any changes and I find that I use the remember setting option all of the time now so effectively changing my custom modes into banks!

 

[mathjak107]

one of the advantages of the banks is that many of us who shoot wildlife turn our cameras off while waiting for action .

do that with u1 u2 , etc , you lose any of the current settings you adjusted to .

with banks those settings are preserved when turning off the camera to preserve battery power

 

[Robert.Panick]

one of the advantages of the banks is that many of us who shoot wildlife turn our cameras off while waiting for action .

do that with u1 u2 , etc , you lose any of the current settings you adjusted to .

with banks those settings are preserved when turning off the camera to preserve battery power

One of the things I learned a long time ago, if you want to save battery, enable the sleep functions. Sleep doesn't use much power and your previous settings are retained. That was true for Olympus and I expect it's true for Nikon. Sleep also comes back to active faster than power on and off. I don't know if sleep has a duration limit or not.

 

[mathjak107]

One of the things I learned a long time ago, if you want to save battery, enable the sleep functions. Sleep doesn't use much power and your previous settings are retained. That was true for Olympus and I expect it's true for Nikon. Sleep also comes back to active faster than power on and off. I don't know if sleep has a duration limit or not.

sleep is a lower power mode but not as effective as off

 

[fcotterill]

one of the advantages of the banks is that many of us who shoot wildlife turn our cameras off while waiting for action .

do that with u1 u2 , etc , you lose any of the current settings you adjusted to .

with banks those settings are preserved when turning off the camera to preserve battery power

In practice, this makes the camera impractical for wildlife photography - set to U1, U2 etc.
Extended Banks setting has to be ON to preserve current settings.

If this setting is OFF, the exposure settings will still be maintained turning off the camera then on again. However, turning Extended Banks back ON recalls the last used exposure settings.

 

[PilotJimL]

For quite a while I shot Nikon, the last being the D7000. Then I switched to Olympus where I shot the E-M1 through the OM-1. I don't think OMS has the resources to remain competitive, so I decided to move to Nikon. Specifically, a Z8. I'm going through the learning curve on it, and I expect it to take another month or two to get fully transitioned. The Z8 is quite a bit more complex than my OM-1, but I can deal with that.

What's driving me nuts though is Banks. It took me a while to realize that the last settings you used are what the bank remembers, there is no save option. For all practical purposes you only have three usable banks, the fourth one you have to keep open for when you shoot something out of the ordinary. Heaven help you if you change something on accident and screw up your bank settings. Shortcomings of Banks and Settings:
- No quick way to switch from one set of settings to another. On a camera with a dial, you would just turn to C1 or U1 (camera dependent), you can even set a button to that setting group.
- To switch settings the best I've seen so far is to set up the Info button to have Banks and Custom Settings show up. But then you have to move to the Banks cell, change it, move to the Custom Settings cell and change it. Perhaps there is a quicker way to do this, but I haven't found it yet.
- There are some really annoying things that aren't covered under Banks or Custom Settings, one in particular is the continuous frame rate. It's really annoying to have to remember that you have to adjust the burst rate when going from landscape to wildlife.

With all that being said, are the Nikon software people idiots that have never used a camera, or is there some advantage of this setup that I just haven't figured out yet?

BTW, it's great that you can name the banks and custom settings, but why did they limit it to just four? I've been saying for years now that a dozen or more would be greatly appreciated.

You are correct and I wrote to Nikon. Great camera, but the banks were not implemented well. I sold my Z 8 and got the Z 6III with 3 presets. You can have one preset on the Z 8 by using a custom button (record) to be Recall Shooting Function (Hold).

 

[alecdann]

For quite a while I shot Nikon, the last being the D7000. Then I switched to Olympus where I shot the E-M1 through the OM-1. I don't think OMS has the resources to remain competitive, so I decided to move to Nikon. Specifically, a Z8. I'm going through the learning curve on it, and I expect it to take another month or two to get fully transitioned. The Z8 is quite a bit more complex than my OM-1, but I can deal with that.

What's driving me nuts though is Banks. It took me a while to realize that the last settings you used are what the bank remembers, there is no save option. For all practical purposes you only have three usable banks, the fourth one you have to keep open for when you shoot something out of the ordinary. Heaven help you if you change something on accident and screw up your bank settings. Shortcomings of Banks and Settings:
- No quick way to switch from one set of settings to another. On a camera with a dial, you would just turn to C1 or U1 (camera dependent), you can even set a button to that setting group.
- To switch settings the best I've seen so far is to set up the Info button to have Banks and Custom Settings show up. But then you have to move to the Banks cell, change it, move to the Custom Settings cell and change it. Perhaps there is a quicker way to do this, but I haven't found it yet.
- There are some really annoying things that aren't covered under Banks or Custom Settings, one in particular is the continuous frame rate. It's really annoying to have to remember that you have to adjust the burst rate when going from landscape to wildlife.

With all that being said, are the Nikon software people idiots that have never used a camera, or is there some advantage of this setup that I just haven't figured out yet?

BTW, it's great that you can name the banks and custom settings, but why did they limit it to just four? I've been saying for years now that a dozen or more would be greatly appreciated.

@Patrick M answered this back in May: https://bcgforums.com/threads/nikon-z8-save-load-settings.35688/

 

[John Woodworth]

To switch seamlessly between Banks, set the Banks to a function button. Mine are set to Fn1 (plus the main control dial to move between the banks).

My use case is event photography. These include music festivals with indoor and outdoor, small and large venues between which I move according to a schedule. I have standardized settings saved on my memory card and load them at the start of each shoot. These settings adapt themselves throughout the day. I can change rapidly between settings for the different scenes (like indoor and outdoor) with different lighting and focus requirements by switching from bank to bank.

I have backstage access and am often asked to take spontaneous portraits for a small (two to four) group. This is a pressure shot since it usually involves an important functionary and the headliner star for a once-in-a-lifetime portrait. You have 15s. This used to kill me as I would be caught unprepared and blew an embarrassing number of these opportunities. Now I have a Bank devoted to this and it's always ready to go.

Couldn't live without the Banks.

 

[dplawrance]

Henry Hudson's setup videos are long, yet they are also so good. I had no idea how to practically make use of banks until I discovered that I need to keep a copy of my bank settings on my memory card, put bank save/recall and delete photos on My Menu, assign My Menu to a button and then never reformat the card in order to erase photos. Using delete photos maintains a copy of the bank settings on the card, something lost if reformatting. I tweak my saved bank settings by recalling them from the card, make my tweak, and then save settings back to the card. I change banks using the Info display. I prefer Steve's suggested settings to many of Henry's (especially the assignment of autofocusing mode buttons) but between the two sets of videos, there is a ton of useful information on using this weirdly implemented feature. If one is only shooting wildlife, then changing banks is unnecessary. But if one is shooting wildlife, landscapes, and macros, where there are many setting differences, banks are a big help.

 

[viper699]

For quite a while I shot Nikon, the last being the D7000. Then I switched to Olympus where I shot the E-M1 through the OM-1. I don't think OMS has the resources to remain competitive, so I decided to move to Nikon. Specifically, a Z8. I'm going through the learning curve on it, and I expect it to take another month or two to get fully transitioned. The Z8 is quite a bit more complex than my OM-1, but I can deal with that.

What's driving me nuts though is Banks. It took me a while to realize that the last settings you used are what the bank remembers, there is no save option. For all practical purposes you only have three usable banks, the fourth one you have to keep open for when you shoot something out of the ordinary. Heaven help you if you change something on accident and screw up your bank settings. Shortcomings of Banks and Settings:
- No quick way to switch from one set of settings to another. On a camera with a dial, you would just turn to C1 or U1 (camera dependent), you can even set a button to that setting group.
- To switch settings the best I've seen so far is to set up the Info button to have Banks and Custom Settings show up. But then you have to move to the Banks cell, change it, move to the Custom Settings cell and change it. Perhaps there is a quicker way to do this, but I haven't found it yet.
- There are some really annoying things that aren't covered under Banks or Custom Settings, one in particular is the continuous frame rate. It's really annoying to have to remember that you have to adjust the burst rate when going from landscape to wildlife.

With all that being said, are the Nikon software people idiots that have never used a camera, or is there some advantage of this setup that I just haven't figured out yet?

BTW, it's great that you can name the banks and custom settings, but why did they limit it to just four? I've been saying for years now that a dozen or more would be greatly appreciated.

Thom Hogan provided me a good history on Banks. In short they go as far back as D series DSLR for pro level camera if I recall.

U modes are consumer level unfortunately.

When the z was given to their pro testing pool of photographers feedback- nothing needs to be changed Nikon.

 

[Patrick M]

I was a lover of the User Settings, u1-3, but I‘ve found Banks to be very much more flexible. I set them to a base, which is saved to the main card. Then on a shoot I make any necessary adjustments for that time. Then it’s really easy to save that to the other card. Now I have the choice…my original on the main card or the adjusted on the 2nd card.
I like the flexibility this offers more than I liked the U1-3 before. It’s more a matter of practice. Practice, practice.

 

[Dave Stargazer]

Thom Hogan provided me a good history on Banks. In short they go as far back as D series DSLR for pro level camera if I recall.

U modes are consumer level unfortunately.

When the z was given to their pro testing pool of photographers feedback- nothing needs to be changed Nikon.

Speaking as a UI designer and software developer, Nikon has a conundrum going forward - there is a large base of professionals that are used to the way banks have worked for years now - warts and all - organically growing into the morass it is today. It is muscle memory for those pros to use them, and make the adjustments they need on the fly. I'd be surprised if Nikon doesn't realize that banks need a redesign to be much more useful, but changing that UI would "break" the muscle memory of all those pros - and they would not be happy.

So forcing the pros onto a redesigned UI would be a big risk for them. They could do a parallel UI for banks - create a new UI, but leave the old one as an option. The problem with that is 1) double maintenance (if you've worked in the production software world you'll recognize this as a very bad idea, and almost guarantees bugs!) 2) some people will never transition to the new UI, so the old one must be kept around for a very very long time - which means increased costs.

Personally for me, I'd welcome a complete redesign of bank organization, and deal with the learning curve. Also hopefully that redesign would make it much more clear how banks are designed to be used, and easier for the U1 etc. folk.

Cheers!

 

[NicoleMordecai]

That's why I was asking, was I missing something. From the feedback, doesn't sound like it.

You're definitely not missing anything. I shoot with both a Z6iii and a Z8. The implementation of the user settings on the Z6iii is so much better than the banks on the Z8. Nikon doesn't have to do any fancy redesign, they just need to standardize on the user setting implementation they already have, which works great.

 

[Anjin San]

Thom Hogan provided me a good history on Banks. In short they go as far back as D series DSLR for pro level camera if I recall.

U modes are consumer level unfortunately.

When the z was given to their pro testing pool of photographers feedback- nothing needs to be changed Nikon.

IMO it isn’t so much a consumer orientation as just being different. Outside the number of things tha5 are saved…and tha5 varies by model…the key difference is “savespd as last used“ vs “default to a known configuration”…and there’s nothing wrong with either approach. One just needs to realize that and deal with it. Personally…I would like to have the option to…per bank…make them sticky or not…but the odds of Nikon allowing tha5 are basically zero…so I’m just going to deal with it. No big deal…they just are different.

 

[JMac]

Don’t put shooting settings/banks in I-menu. You can put something more important in there for each bank/setting. Put them in your “MY MENU”… then program another button (F3) to go directly to MY MENU. Be aware the MY menu has a cap on entries.

 

[GerryLoSardo]

I gave up on using banks a long time ago. With no way to save your base settings, what is the point. Now I just check my setup to make sure things are the way I want them before each shoot. No need to reload banks or worry if I changed something and didn't change it back.

The inability to save a bank and have that be "sticky" so you can return to it after making adjustments is a long time complaint that Nikon has chosen to ignore.

Couldn't have stated it any better. Banks (to me) are a colossal waste of time. It takes me less time to adjust my settings to what I need them to be prior to a shoot than to fiddle with banks.