Nikon Z9 and 500mm PF struggles with finding birds in bright blue sky and I have to refocus on moving birds

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frodoboy

frodoboy

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Just wondering if anyone has had this problem and/or found a remedy for it. My friend has the Sony A1 and he also has trouble focusing on birds in flight against a bright blue sky. My problem is I can see the blurry bird in the sky. Then I push bbf to focus and the bird goes totally out of focus. Then I have to keep pushing BBF trying to find the bird. I eventually do, but it is by then a butt shot. My Sony friend is also struggling with the same issue. Another problem I have is if I do lock on to, lets say, a flock of birds, they are in focus, but as they move towards me -with BBF still engaged- I notice they are out of focus, so I have to let up and push the BBF button again to refocus. I have tried all the focus settings suggested by others including steady and erratic, 1-5, etc. nothing seems to change this problem. I am usually shooting at f/5.6-f/8. Shutter speed between 1/2500-1/4000. Exposure comp usually -1 to +1 depending on bird color and light. This is very frustrating for me and I wonder if this is a common problem or some setting I just don't have right. Thanks for all replies.
 
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frodoboy said:
Just wondering if anyone has had this problem and/or found a remedy for it. My friend has the Sony A1 and he also has trouble focusing on birds in flight against a bright blue sky. My problem is I can see the blurry bird in the sky. Then I push bbf to focus and the bird goes totally out of focus. Then I have to keep pushing BBF trying to find the bird. I eventually do, but it is by then a butt shot. My Sony friend is also struggling with the same issue. Another problem I have is if I do lock on to, lets say, a flock of birds, they are in focus, but as they move towards me -with BBF still engaged- I notice they are out of focus, so I have to let up and push the BBF button again to refocus. I have tried all the focus settings suggested by others including steady and erratic, 1-5, etc. nothing seems to change this problem. I am usually shooting at f/5.6-f/8. Shutter speed between 1/2500-1/4000. Exposure comp usually -1 to +1 depending on bird color and light. This is very frustrating for me and I wonder if this is a common problem or some setting I just don't have right. Thanks for all replies.
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‘I can’t help you with the Z9 but I am not sure what AF setting and mode your friend uses on the A1 but BIF against blue sky is near 100% reliable. You have to be really badly backlit for it to struggle and even then it may not find the eye but it will nail the bird every time. You can make the A1 AF fail but its more due to busy backgrounds or shiny water.

‘’When something like that happens consistently, I usually realize I have the focus limiter on or some other form of user induced error.
 
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Use the Wide-Area Small AF Area Mode with Subject Detection for Animals. Set one of the programmable buttons to turn 3D-Tracking. Once the Wide-Area has found the bird, switch to 3D tracking. Use A7 to turn on Focus Point Persistence. There is a lot to learn with this camera. The farther away the bird is the hard it is to focus on, but the less likely a good photo will ensue. I set P3 to turn on good old fashioned Dynamic-Area AF Small which I use if nothing else works. I was photographing high flying hawks against a clear blue sky and had no trouble locking on them with Wide-Area Large AF Mode. I am very pleased with the Z9 focus system so far.
 
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Maljo said:
Use the Wide-Area Small AF Area Mode with Subject Detection for Animals. Set one of the programmable buttons to turn 3D-Tracking. Once the Wide-Area has found the bird, switch to 3D tracking. Use A7 to turn on Focus Point Persistence. There is a lot to learn with this camera. The farther away the bird is the hard it is to focus on, but the less likely a good photo will ensue. I set P3 to turn on good old fashioned Dynamic-Area AF Small which I use if nothing else works. I was photographing high flying hawks against a clear blue sky and had no trouble locking on them with Wide-Area Large AF Mode. I am very pleased with the Z9 focus system so far.
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"P3".....do you mean Fn3? or ???
 
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Just a thought, and you may have already considered this... How blurry is the bird when you first try to focus? You may need to prefocus to a distance somewhat close to the bird for AF to work. Any AF will struggle if the original focus is way off from the actual distance.
 
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I have not experienced that at all with the Z9 and 500mm PF. Against a bright sky, it’s essentially immediate lock on and stays with the bird. Which af settings are you using? As you say it is two of you with completely different systems so that makes it interesting. One suggestion I’d try to rule it out is put focus back on the shutter button to ensure the issue isn’t with the AF-On button.

I’m primarily using Wide Area L with subject detection set to Auto, stickiness setting of 3, and set to erratic. I am using the shutter button to focus and have AF-On set to 3D. This setup has been working fantastic for me and I have a lot of opportunities to shoot the situation you describe. I’ve been using the same with the 500mm PF and 1.4x TCiii now and it is not quite as instant but still very quick.

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frodoboy said:
Just wondering if anyone has had this problem and/or found a remedy for it. My friend has the Sony A1 and he also has trouble focusing on birds in flight against a bright blue sky. My problem is I can see the blurry bird in the sky. Then I push bbf to focus and the bird goes totally out of focus. Then I have to keep pushing BBF trying to find the bird. I eventually do, but it is by then a butt shot. My Sony friend is also struggling with the same issue. Another problem I have is if I do lock on to, lets say, a flock of birds, they are in focus, but as they move towards me -with BBF still engaged- I notice they are out of focus, so I have to let up and push the BBF button again to refocus. I have tried all the focus settings suggested by others including steady and erratic, 1-5, etc. nothing seems to change this problem. I am usually shooting at f/5.6-f/8. Shutter speed between 1/2500-1/4000. Exposure comp usually -1 to +1 depending on bird color and light. This is very frustrating for me and I wonder if this is a common problem or some setting I just don't have right. Thanks for all replies.
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Your experience suggests a problem with technique or settings. Most are having great success with the Z9. I'm hosting a Z9 program on Nikonians.org on March 8 with Paul van Allen and Alex Rhea. You are welcome to attend.

Are you using AF-C? AF-S is not a good choice for moving subjects.

What AF Area mode are you using? Wide Small or Wide Large are normally the best to acquire focus.

If you are starting with a blurry bird in the sky, it sounds like you may want to pre-focus near the correct distance. You need contrast to focus. With focus on the sensor, if you are focused at 25 feet and the subject is 150 feet, it's going to be quite soft and lack enough contrast. Instead, start by focusing the camera around 150 feet away and then focus should be quick and accurate.

What kind of bird are you trying to photograph? How far away is it? A songbird at 150 feet is extremely small in the frame and extremely difficult, but a wading bird is large enough to be an easy target. The bird needs to be large enough it fill most of whatever AF area you are using. You need to be able to hold the AF area on the subject and keep the bird in the frame.

Just keep AF Lock On at the default setting of 3. Erratic is probably a better choice for flight.

Use f/5.6 to 6.3. There is rarely a benefit of stopping down further.

What lens are you using?

If you are struggling, fall back to making sure your technique is working for easy subjects. Practice on slow moving targets to make sure your technique is good. It's like a pro golfer starting with 3 foot putts or short wedge shots. Start with something easy and familiar before increasing the degree of difficulty or trying something where you have less practice.
 
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I have no trouble at all with that combo. My troubles begin whenever the bird transitions to a cluttered background. In clear blue skies, the autofocus/tracking is just as good as the A1 IMO
 
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I am wondering now if it is a problem with the 500mm pf! I put my 70-300mm on and the BBF follows the bird just fine moving from one subject to another. The 500mm pf doesn't do this. It locks onto one subject and in order for it to lock onto another subject, I have to refocus with the AF button. No wonder I've had so many problems not locking onto birds! I wonder if the 500mm pf then has a problem communicating with the Z9 or if there is a setting somewhere I am missing!
 
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II was out this morning with my Z9, 500pf and 1.4tc. I had no trouble locking onto any bird against a blank sky. I did lose af when a harrier flew behind tree branches for longer than the lock on setting but I expect that. I do pre-focus whenever possible and have noticed when the bird is small in the VF it does have more trouble acquiring focus even with a bland sky.
 
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Okay I found out the problem but have no way of knowing which component it is. I have the FTZ2 of course connected to the Z9. I have a 70-300mm lens attache and AFC works just fine. I connect the 500mm pf and AFC does NOT work without constantly refocusing. I tried the 500mm pf on my D850 and afc works just fine and quickly. So now which is it? Is it the 500mm pf not liking the FTZ2 adapter? Or is it the 500mm pf just not being compatible with the Z9? Or is it the Z9 not working with the 500mm pf? This is perplexing. The Z9 works fine with the 70-300mm and FTZ2 with AFC. The 500mm pf works fine with the D850 and AFC but not the Z9. I cleaned all the contacts and even reset the Z9 to default and nothing changed. The Z9 works flawlessly with all my other lenses. Any suggestions?
 
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Interesting. As a last resort, I installed firmware version 1.10 back on the Z9. I had put 1.1.1 on it last month. I tried it outside and guess what? It focuses fine in AFC mode again! Hmmm. Has anyone else with the 500mm pf updated their firmware to 1.1.1? I may try reinstalling 1.1.1 now that 1.1.0 fixed the problem and see if there is a bug in it. If so, I will let Nikon know.
 
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I use the 500 PF with my Z9. I have the original FTZ and have not upgraded to the new one. Firmware is C-1.11 and Lens 1.10. I do not have any trouble focusing against a blue sky or a gray sky. Pre focusing helps in how fast it first acquires initial focus. I came to the Z9 from a D850 and have not experienced any loss of focus speed or stickyness.
 
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CoyoteCreationsNW said:
I use the 500 PF with my Z9. I have the original FTZ and have not upgraded to the new one. Firmware is C-1.11 and Lens 1.10. I do not have any trouble focusing against a blue sky or a gray sky. Pre focusing helps in how fast it first acquires initial focus. I came to the Z9 from a D850 and have not experienced any loss of focus speed or stickyness.
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Thanks for you input. Glad to hear that.
 
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I’m using the Z9 with the 500mm PF with FTZII without issues, but I didn’t update to firmware 1.11, still on 1.10. The release notes didn’t list anything that seemed urgent and to be honest I’ve been a little hesitant with the shutter issue two members reported so going with the ‘if it ain’t broke‘ strategy until a bigger update or we hear a solution for their issue.
 
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abc123brian said:
I’m using the Z9 with the 500mm PF with FTZII without issues, but I didn’t update to firmware 1.11, still on 1.10. The release notes didn’t list anything that seemed urgent and to be honest I’ve been a little hesitant with the shutter issue two members reported so going with the ‘if it ain’t broke‘ strategy until a bigger update or we hear a solution for their issue.
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Maybe I will leave it alone right now since it is working!
 
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frodoboy said:
Interesting. As a last resort, I installed firmware version 1.10 back on the Z9. I had put 1.1.1 on it last month. I tried it outside and guess what? It focuses fine in AFC mode again! Hmmm. Has anyone else with the 500mm pf updated their firmware to 1.1.1? I may try reinstalling 1.1.1 now that 1.1.0 fixed the problem and see if there is a bug in it. If so, I will let Nikon know.
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I agree with your idea of reinstalling 1.1.1 now. Sometimes there are glitches in firmware installation that are resolved with a rollback and update.

Great detective work finding the issue.
 
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If the bird is grossly OOF to start off with then all the cameras will struggle against sky....they just can't see it as they are reading off the sensor. Sometimes they may drive AF and find it but other times not.

It is good to know that FW reset fixed it.

I was going to double check that you hadn't actually switched out of AF-C because the issue with it losing the group of birds as you continue to push AF-ON sounded really strange.
 
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This happens with all camera, the solution is to turn the focus, via the barrel 1/4 turn to the right..to infinity. Then focus on the bird. Cameras/lens focus faster going from infinity to close rather than the other way. Works every time.
 
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Obeach said:
This happens with all camera, the solution is to turn the focus, via the barrel 1/4 turn to the right..to infinity. Then focus on the bird. Cameras/lens focus faster going from infinity to close rather than the other way. Works every time.
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I will give that a try, but the problem is even if I was at infinity and the camera could see the bird, as soon as I pushed the BBF button while still on the bird, it would go blurry and lose the bird.
 
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