Nikon Z9 Teaser 3 AF tracking box fake (digitally added)

[sid_19911991]

In the video, Jared states that he reached out to Nikon about the Af tracking in Z9 teaser 3 and that Nikon confirmed that the AF box on the athletes were digitally added in post but based on the EVF recording.

It seems factual to me as the AF boxes in Z9 teaser 3 were perfectly plastered to the subject, instead of being reactive to the subject's both subtle & drastic movements.

This does not mean that the Z9 can't track fast moving subjects, but if Jared is correct, the AF tracking box in Z9 teaser is likely not representative of the actual AF capabilities of Z9.

Personally, I never liked any of the Z9 teasers. Like Tom Hogan said, it all seems rushed. The teaser 1 & 3 especially looked low budget made by an amateur to me.

I would have liked the teasers to show the actual recording of the EVF tracking birds & fast moving subjects like we saw in Canon R3 ads.

At this point, only the 8k extended recording & the power of the processer is impressive to me about the Z9.

Nikon's AI capabilities in mirrorless AF systems remains to be seen.

 

[thelordofthelight]

Typical Youtube clickbait content and nothing less...in the past he had some valid criticisms about cameras and even now he does but all of that is getting lost in the dramatics..interesting how he says even Sony does/ did the same with their A1 etc. but he never made a video about it just before the A1 release...the youtubers clearly know what content draws attention... Teaser 3 didn't look bad at all to my eyes...it showed what the AF is capable of and BIF is not the only thing that requires the best AF. In fact, most of the BIFs are predictable to a great extent, at least the BIFs that are generally demonstrated by most of the camera companies..i am yet to see a swallow in flight being demonstrated as part of a teaser...Now, as to the 3rd teaser released by Nikon, there were several takeaways in my opinion..Tennis is not a slow sport at all maybe the way they slowed down that footage make it appear as if there is no movement at all but if you notice, the player wears a cap, which implies the camera could track her eyes despite the eyes being in the shadow area. Also, there is a frame where her right hand obstructs the face and yet again the camera seems to keep its AF point on the player's eyes. Likewise the hurdle runners portion that highlights the camera can focus on a specific point of interest instead of just jumping to the closest subject or eyes. The last one was an incoming athelete which is one of the toughest for any camera AF system as the subject is coming straight at the camera, which again shows some impressive tracking. The only one that kind of puzzled me was the football players where the AF box shows up only towards the end. We will get to know how good or bad the Z9 is in a few days i guess..

 

[sid_19911991]

1) Yes, Jared is a click-bait king who probably makes 250k USD annually from youtube.

2) But his shenanigans doesn't change the facts does it? Nikon mirrorless AF has so far has been below par. His sneering way of presenting info is irrelevant here.

3) Jared does question the AF box of A1 & ZV 10 as shown in a particular ad, but we know from other complementary videos from the A1 or say A7 4 that they actually actively track birds in flight well.

4) I haven't seen an EVF AF recording of a swallow-in-flight, but I have seen one of kingfisher in flight, a comparable bird. Also, there are a few examples of swallow in flight pics taken with Sony & Canon mirrorless bodies in Flickr. I am yet to see one from Nikon z cameras.

4) Yes, tracking a few other subjects can be harder than tracking birds (entire body) in flight, but tracking the "eyes" of a fast moving bird is probably the hardest. IDK.

5) Not considering Jared's video, I still find the AF box in Z9 teaser 3 to be doctored. (Digitally added). If the AF turns out to be that good, then great, but we cannot assume that the Z9 has passed the AF test based on the teasers.

6) For me the biggest take-away from the Z9 teasers are the powerful processor & the 8k capabilities.

7) Z9 teaser 3 lighting is off. Even a pro photographer Vahagan (A Nikon lover) who has the YouTube channel Vahagraphy pointed out the same thing. You look at Sony & even Canon ads these days, the quality of the promo material is really good.

Here is an example of Canon R3 wildlife promo material.

There are plenty of Sony & Canon ads depicting the AF actively tracking birds. It is all over youtube.

I am yet to see one from Nikon.

I hope we get to see one from Nikon.

 

[RockvilleBob]

Buried in Jared's advertising and hidden under his style is very often valid insight and criticism.

As important as AF will be to to the success of the Z9 it is disappointing to learn the Nikon focus points were a paint job.

Not a confidence builder, deflating.

 

[abc123brian]

1) Yes, Jared is a click-bait king who probably makes 250k USD from youtube annually.

2) But his shenanigans doesn't change the facts does it? Nikon mirrorless AF has so far has been below par. His sneering way of presenting info is irrelevant here.

3) Jared does question the AF box of A1 & ZV 10 as shown in a particular ad, but we know from other complementary videos from the A1 or say A7 4 that they actually actively track birds in flight well.

4) I haven't seen an EVF AF recording of a swallow-in-flight, but I have seen one of kingfisher in flight, a comparable bird. Also, there are a few examples of swallow in flight pics taken with Sony & Canon mirrorless bodies in Flickr. I am yet to see one from Nikon z cameras.

4) Yes, tracking a few other subjects can be harder than tracking birds (entire body) in flight, but tracking the "eyes" of a fast moving bird is probably the hardest. IDK.

5) Not considering Jared's video, I still find the AF box in Z9 teaser 3 to be doctored. (Digitally added). If the AF turns out to be that good, then great, but we cannot assume that the Z9 has passed the AF test based on the teasers.

6) For me the biggest take-away from Z9 teasers is the powerful processor & its 8k capabilities.

7) Z9 teaser 3 lighting is off. Even a pro photographer Vahagan (A Nikon lover) who has the YouTube channel Vahagraphy pointed out the same thing. You look at Sony & even Canon ads these days, the quality of the promo material is really good.

Here is an example of Canon R3 wildlife promo material.

There are plenty of Sony & Canon ads depicting the AF actively tracking birds. It is all over youtube.

I am yet to see one from Nikon.

I hope we get to see one from Nikon.

There are big differences between ads / promo videos versus teasers and it seems you’re thinking they are the same thing. Teasers generally start by showing you very little and showing you more closer to product release. For example, the first teaser for a new sports car may show just a headlight or emblem on the car, the second teaser might show the fender, the third the steering wheel, and fourth maybe you hear the car startup and see an exhaust pipe. You don’t get to see the entire car at once or the details until sfter the car is officially revealed. At that time, there is usually some promo videos showing it going around the track, showing off the handling and performance, highlighting features.

While Jared’s criticism of Nikon Z AF tracking might be justified, it is no more justified than the criticism of his videos. Everyone of his videos has a clickbait title. His videos bashing the AF system on the Z cameras are misleading. We all know the specific AF tracking mode sucks and doesn’t work. There are other modes for AF and they work quite well. In his videos, he shows the AF point of the Nikon moving around the eye and is critical of it. In his latest video of the A7iv, the AF point was moving around quite a bit, more so than the canon and other Sony cameras he reviewed, but he praised it. He claims he likes and prefers Nikon’s files, colors, and lenses better but calls the Z a failure because the automated AF isn’t as good. By his own words, the only thing that seems to matter to him is good automated tracking. I watch Jared for entertainment purposes mostly. There is a little truth in his videos, but you need to watch and listen carefully to pull it out between a lot of nonsense. Personally, I feel Kai Wong is more entertaining and much more factual, but he doesn’t produce as many videos.

 

[thelordofthelight]

They removed all those boxes this time on T4 LoL

 

[fcotterill]

This forum abseils treating clickbait with any seriousness, which seems to be picking crumbs from queries in forum threads. As was noted ina parallel thread on FM, the imposter was flamed on NR last week. As noted for the TAP et al, been observed, this is a clear demonstration of Relevance Depravation Syndrome that afflicts these talking heads

New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021

Nothing more to add, except if Nikon fudged the AF capabilities, they will be fried and worse. And this can only be tested. Not everyone is capable and it takes some time with a camera in hand....

The Reviews Are All In. Yippee! | Cameras and Photography Explained | Thom Hogan

Sony once again gets the marketing launch engine well revved.

bythom.com

 

[jeffnles1]

all these questions should be answered soon.

Nikon | Shop & Explore Cameras, Lenses, and Accessories

Shop the latest mirrorless & DSLR cameras and NIKKOR lenses from the official Nikon eCommerce site. Explore our innovations and photo equipment!

www.nikonusa.com

I'll be happy when we can get back to wildlife and nature photography filling up the new posts on Steve's forums and, hopefully, put the tech and brand wars to the bottom.

 

[StefanSC]

So, let me guess.. Nikon didn't invite Fro' to any press junket and they didn't send him a review sample so he's miffed about it?

I'll be happy when we can get back to wildlife and nature photography filling up the new posts on Steve's forums and, hopefully, put the tech and brand wars to the bottom.

Not any time soon .

After the Z9 will come the interminable "Is it better than the A9/A1/A7/R3/5/6", then the "Sony and Canon have a 600mm f4, where is Nikons?" then the "When the Z9 upgrades will hit the Z7s" and so on forever.

 

[thelordofthelight]

Agree, teaser 4 is by far the worst.. I thought they'd combine more photography generes and reveal more about the AF modes etc. Anyway we'll know more in 24 hrs.

 

[sid_19911991]

There are big differences between ads / promo videos versus teasers and it seems you’re thinking they are the same thing. Teasers generally start by showing you very little and showing you more closer to product release. For example, the first teaser for a new sports car may show just a headlight or emblem on the car, the second teaser might show the fender, the third the steering wheel, and fourth maybe you hear the car startup and see an exhaust pipe. You don’t get to see the entire car at once or the details until sfter the car is officially revealed. At that time, there is usually some promo videos showing it going around the track, showing off the handling and performance, highlighting features.

While Jared’s criticism of Nikon Z AF tracking might be justified, it is no more justified than the criticism of his videos. Everyone of his videos has a clickbait title. His videos bashing the AF system on the Z cameras are misleading. We all know the specific AF tracking mode sucks and doesn’t work. There are other modes for AF and they work quite well. In his videos, he shows the AF point of the Nikon moving around the eye and is critical of it. In his latest video of the A7iv, the AF point was moving around quite a bit, more so than the canon and other Sony cameras he reviewed, but he praised it. He claims he likes and prefers Nikon’s files, colors, and lenses better but calls the Z a failure because the automated AF isn’t as good. By his own words, the only thing that seems to matter to him is good automated tracking. I watch Jared for entertainment purposes mostly. There is a little truth in his videos, but you need to watch and listen carefully to pull it out between a lot of nonsense. Personally, I feel Kai Wong is more entertaining and much more factual, but he doesn’t produce as many videos.

The bone of contention is that all the 3 major brands are good cameras but the mirrorless version of Z camera's Af capabilities are not on par, IMO.

This has nothing to do with Jared. I have used A9 i & R6 and I own a Z6 ii. The Z6 ii AF is simply not as good.

And it shows in the market share of mirrorless cameras.

Consumer is the king, right?

Mirrorless market share of interchangeable cameras by brands.

1) Sony - 35%
2) Canon - 30%
3) Nikon - 7.5%

There is nothing wrong in aspiring for the best gear.

I want to photograph kingfishers & swallows in flight frequently. My skills are not good enough to do so with a Z7 or a Z6. So I aspire for better AF.

What's wrong in that? It is a free world.

 

[thelordofthelight]

Nikon never advertised their Z6/7 or IIs as action cameras in the first place. So if you bought to primarily photograph action, then the problem is clearly not with Nikon but with the buyer who bought the wrong product. This is the first time Nikon is advertising a mirrorless camera as an action camera so this one matters a lot.

 

[sid_19911991]

They removed all those boxes this time on T4 LoL

OH MY GODDDD - (Read it as Janice from Friends!)

This is HILARIOUS

Is this supposed to be a teaser for a flagship 6000 USD camera or a teaser for

1) Protein shakes
or
2) Netflix's Love Island

I am also SAD as I may have to sell my Nikon gear for a loss and move on to Sony.

Now where are those perfect little yellow AF boxes?

Let's just hope Nikon is bad at marketing & the Z9's AF is close to Sony & Canon mirrorless...

If Z9 happens to have poor AF & they don't get better within a few months, I feel half of the wildlife Nikon shooters will eventually move on to other brands.
I don't have any data backing my opinion though. Nikon's mirrorless market share will surely dip.

However, non-wildlife shooters will likely stick with Nikon for its other advantages...

 

[abc123brian]

The bone of contention is that all the 3 major brands are good cameras but the mirrorless version of Z camera's Af capabilities are not on par, IMO.

This has nothing to do with Jared. I have used A9 i & R6 and I own a Z6 ii. The Z6 ii AF is simply not as good.

And it shows in the market share of mirrorless cameras.

Consumer is the king, right?

Mirrorless market share of interchangeable cameras by brands.

1) Sony - 35%
2) Canon - 30%
3) Nikon - 7.5%

There is nothing wrong in aspiring for the best gear.

I want to photograph kingfishers & swallows in flight frequently. My skills are not good enough to do so with a Z7 or a Z6. So I aspire for better AF.

What's wrong in that? It is a free world.

Market share rarely reflects what is better and what is better is very subjective depending on usage. The Z6 and Z7 are not the camera for shooting kingfishers or swallows in flight. Its not their intended usage. From other posts, I know you’re interested in the A7iv, but I have a feeling it may also let you down if that is your intended use.

 

[sid_19911991]

Market share rarely reflects what is better and what is better is very subjective depending on usage. The Z6 and Z7 are not the camera for shooting kingfishers or swallows in flight. Its not their intended usage. From other posts, I know you’re interested in the A7iv, but I have a feeling it may also let you down if that is your intended use.

Yes I agree, Z6 & Z7 were never advertised as action cameras, but their AF is probably worse than a D5500. IDK. I guess I was wrong to expect a basic level of AF capability.

I sometimes shoot with my friend's A7 iii & 200-600. I have been able to easily shoot birds in flight like parakeets when there is not too much of background clutter despite A7 iii having the worst AF ability in Sony's recent portfolio.

Considering A7 4 is significantly better based on the specs & a number of reviews, I feel I will be better off with it.

It is not just the stills AF. Video AF of A7 4 is supposed to be class leading. The 4k 60 with 1.5x crop is supposed to be sharp unlike the Z6 ii 4k 60 1.5x crop.

Sony primes are expensive & used Sony primes are not available. Hence, I haven't switched to Sony yet & I am waiting for Z9 to come up with the goods as the AF magic can trickle down.

 

[sid_19911991]

Market share rarely reflects what is better and what is better is very subjective depending on usage. The Z6 and Z7 are not the camera for shooting kingfishers or swallows in flight. Its not their intended usage. From other posts, I know you’re interested in the A7iv, but I have a feeling it may also let you down if that is your intended use.

Market share rarely reflects what is better and what is better is very subjective depending on usage. The Z6 and Z7 are not the camera for shooting kingfishers or swallows in flight. Its not their intended usage. From other posts, I know you’re interested in the A7iv, but I have a feeling it may also let you down if that is your intended use.

Market share of Nikon is 7.5%. Way behind Canon (30%) & Sony (35%).

Although DSLR market is bigger even now by volume, mirrorless market by value is already bigger than the DSLR camera market.

It clearly shows that Nikon is not catering to a large number of buyers. It shows the Z cameras at this point lack some features/ability. Period.

 

[bleirer]

I don't think it matters what techniques they used to illustrate a feature in a video. For example when The Goid Doctor is in surgery, you know those are not real intestines, right?

 

[thelordofthelight]

I have used the Z7/II for a while and i still rent one as my back up for wildlife trips.. The AF is certainly not like a D5500. It was just not in the same league as the D500/850/D5 etc.. Its way more than just "Basic" if you know what you are doing with the AF system..If dialing in the Auto area mode is your cup of tea, then yes the existing Nikons are not for those kind of photographers.

BTW, A74 is the worst camera ever to be launched by Sony..the Canon R6 just kills it and that too if you say you're buying that camera to photograph action, then wishing you all the luck! With electronic shutter that camera suffers from rolling shutter and with mechanical shutter it is too slow to be called an action camera...

Yeah, the AF boxes didn't seem to be more intuitive driven by software.

Also, the test subjects in the teasers were disappointing.
The tennis player in teaser 3 was barely moving. Common Nikon!

The production quality of the teasers are pretty ordinary looking to me. As if shot by an amateur.

Also, Nikon should have ideally come out with an R5 or A7 iv range camera first that more people can look to buy, instead of a 7000 usd flagship camera.

Also, the recent firmware edits for Z6 ii & Z7 ii were disappointing.

Yes I agree, Z6 & Z7 were never advertised as action cameras, but their AF is probably worse than a D5500. IDK. I guess I was wrong to expect a basic level of AF capability.

I sometimes shoot with my friend's A7 iii & 200-600. I have been able to easily shoot birds in flight like parakeets when there is not too much of background clutter despite A7 iii having the worst AF ability in Sony's recent portfolio.

Considering A7 4 is significantly better based on the specs & a number of reviews, I feel I will be better off with it.

It is not just the stills AF. Video AF of A7 4 is supposed to be class leading. The 4k 60 with 1.5x crop is supposed to be sharp unlike the Z6 ii 4k 60 1.5x crop.

Sony primes are expensive & used Sony primes are not available. Hence, I haven't switched to Sony yet & I am waiting for Z9 to come up with the goods as the AF magic can trickle down.

 

[abc123brian]

Market share of Nikon is 7.5%. Way behind Canon (30%) & Sony (35%).

Although DSLR market is bigger even now by volume, mirrorless market by value is already bigger than the DSLR camera market.

It clearly shows that Nikon is not catering to a large number of buyers. It shows the Z cameras at this point lack some features/ability. Period.

Market share held by Sony’s kit lens that no one ever thought was better than just average at best is likely higher than the market share of any of their other lenses. Should we also assume it is better? There are many factors that lead to overall market share and quite often price is a driving factor. Rarely is it because something is all around better.

 

[sid_19911991]

I have used the Z7/II for a while and i still rent one as my back up for wildlife trips.. The AF is certainly not like a D5500. It was just not in the same league as the D500/850/D5 etc.. Its way more than just "Basic" if you know what you are doing with the AF system..If dialing in the Auto area mode is your cup of tea, then yes the existing Nikons are not for those kind of photographers.

BTW, A74 is the worst Sony camera ever to be launched by Sony..the Canon R6 just kills it and that too if you say you're buying that camera to photograph action, then wishing you all the luck! With electronic shutter that camera suffers from rolling shutter and with mechanical shutter it is too slow to be called an action camera...

Sure, Z7 & Z7 ii has better AF than D5500.

I don't intend to use the electronic shutter on the A7 4.

I will have to manage with 6 FPS. People manage with 7 FPS on the excellent D850.

For me dynamic range & image quality is a priority over how fast a camera can shoot.

My friend will be buying the A7 4 next month. Apparently it will be available in November last week as per Fotocircle Bangalore.

I will test it. Only if I am happy with the AF, I will buy it. The AF looks good as per the reviews.

I have used the R6 unlike you.
R6's AF is excellent, but I did not like its dynamic range. It produces colour noise even at 500 ISO in bad light. My crop sensor D500 does a far better job at that.

R6 is a non-BSI snesor. A big no no.

 

[sid_19911991]

Market share held by Sony’s kit lens that no one ever thought was better than just average at best is likely higher than the market share of any of their other lenses. Should we also assume it is better? There are many factors that lead to overall market share and quite often price is a driving factor. Rarely is it because something is all around better.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[thelordofthelight]

Of course i have not used the R6 but have seen and read a lot of reviews from reliable sources that did some extensive testing and their conclusions don't match yours. Do you have any real data/ images to show us what you are saying about ISO 500 and poor DR on Canon R6? that's quite strange for a camera launched in 2021 and to me these 'conclusions' simply seem a bit exaggerated. Thom Hogan is primarily a Nikon supporter and he praised the R6 in general for its capabilities and he also specifically talks about how this camera pretty much brings canon on par with Sony/Nikon w.r.t dynamic range.

Canon R6 Camera Review | Sans Mirror | Thom Hogan

Thom Hogan's review of the Canon R6 mirrorless full frame camera

sansmirror.com

Sure, Z7 & Z7 ii has better AF than D5500.

I don't intend to use the electronic shutter on the A7 4.

I will have to manage with 6 FPS. People manage with 7 FPS on the excellent D850.

For me dynamic range & image quality is a priority over how fast a camera can shoot.

My friend will be buying the A7 4 next month. Apparently it will be available in November last week as per Fotocircle Bangalore.

I will test it. Only if I am happy with the AF, I will buy it. The AF looks good as per the reviews.

I have used the R6 unlike you.
R6's AF is excellent, but I did not like its dynamic range. It produces colour noise even at 500 ISO in bad light. My crop sensor D500 does a far better job at that.

R6 is a non-BSI snesor. A big no no.

 

[sid_19911991]

Exactly, after reading & watching the excellent reviews on R6 I was shocked when I actually used it & saw the results.

But some of these people who were also praising the R6's image quality were also praising the Canon 600 F11 & 800 F11 lenses!!!

An F11 lens! Are you kidding me. It is just 200 USD cheaper than 200-500, so it is not cheap. An f11 aperture lens is no good for shooting action & yet the YouTube reviewers are in love with it.

Canon R6 luminance noise is low. It is excellent. But its chromatic noise or color noise performance is bad.

I have a few photos taken with the R6 showing colour noise. But I do not have a similar pic taken with another camera at the same moment.

That's why in my previous post I recommended people to rent it & decide for themselves.

I also don't like the dynamic range of the A9 i & D6 (much better than R6) & yet people have taken high quality pics with it in good light & fast glass.

But if you compare it with say a Sony A7 iii for example, the Sony A7 iii is significantly better at higher ISO in terms colour reproduction & dynamic range.

I guess many of those who shoot with A9 i, D6 etc. also shoot with F4 & F2.8 prime glass which enhances tje picture & hides away some of the blemishes of low dynamic range flagship cameras.

As a thumb rule flagship cameras use their processing power to write images quickly & sacrifice dynamic range.

It is however better on Sony A1 but still not as good as Sony A7 iii.

Even Steve spoke about how the Sony A1 has greenish tinge issue sometimes in the review.

I got purple colours on the tiger when I shot with the D6. The IsO was just 100. It was correctly explosed.

I exposed for the highlights (part of the tiger was soaked in sunlight, while the rest was in shade) When I lifted the shade, the tiger had purple on it. It took me a lot of time to correct. I am not editing expert but I don't have such issues with D500 or Sony A7 iii.

 

[RugglesZ9]

Fake boxes? Who cares? It never occurred to me that I was looking at the focus points straight from the camera until Jared bitched about it. To me, the purpose of the boxes was only to identify the part of the image that was going to be in focus - the portion of each image under the boxes looked sharp enough to me. Besides, on a typical monitor, iPhone, or laptop, how can we judge the accuracy of the camera's ability to keep up with the action?

Personally, I rely on Nikon to deliver its product, albeit slowly. I'm assuming I won't get one until February, if I'm lucky.

 

[Ltgk20]

Not that it's terribly important, but Nikon did put a Z9 in Fro's hands for a couple of days and he put out a preview where he was pretty positive about the AF capabilities.