Nikon z9 v Nikon D6

[O]

I am currently on the waiting list for a Z9 My current thoughts are to trade my D500 and D6 for the Z9 and keep my D850 I mainly shoot wildlife and I want the Z9 for fast moving action shots e.g. small birds in flight. Will I find any benefits in focus acquisition when comparing the Z9 with the D6 Also, is the Z9 any better than DSLR's at acquiring focus lock when the subject is moving fast against a busy background.

Hire a Z9 and see if you like it, however its a more sophisticated camera to get your head around.
I sold of all the exotic gear ages ago, i rent exotics if i need anything.

I have a D850 with a grip, in a nut shell, its a stunning camera not a computer, the D850 is brilliant in full frame or DX mode and at 9fps it makes the D500 obsolete for me, the D850, its a total joy to use.

I have the wholly trio in FX lenses plus the 200-500 and a 300 2.8 VR II with TCs.

I hire anything exotic in glass or cameras like a D6 i really need.

I have had a Z9 since xmase eve, i have several D batteries as well, plus a Z adapter, in Z glass i have so far a 50mm 1.8s, all the FX glass works brilliantly. I wont invest in expensive Z glass until i get completely comfortable with what the Z9 can do for me, I have several Cobalt Pro 325 gig cards which closes the chapter on buffer or capacity issues.

Images file quality Z9 D850 cant tell the difference.

Do i need 20, 30, 120 fps rarely, 12, 15 is often more than enough.

Z9 D6, in my experience i find the D6 is stikier for sports action in challenging conditions, i also think the color is more pleasing at higher iso, in good light and perfect conditions the Z9 has nice color, the focusing tracking on the Z9 tends to be challenged in difficult situations especially with complexed back grounds or things close by, it can track and lock on in many but ideal cases very well and then not so.

Large pixels gather more light easily quickly, large pixels helps with focusing as well, hence the D6 is not to be considered obsolete.

I like the Z9 very much, tracking can be frustrating at times but i need to take some of the blame for that so far.

The one thing that i like about the Z9 is the frame rate at 45mp,

the 2 things i don't like is

1) not as sticky on tracking as i would like in challenging conditions but i hear that's a mirror less issue regardless of brand..
2) its far to customizable and to complicated to use at times taking away for me from enjoying photography.

That said, that is for me at the moment,

I am finding i come back with 40 gig of images on a days shoot covering a sports event, and the Money shots are really no different to the D850 at 9 FPS, the Z9 just gives me a few extra frames before and after, at this speed you do get more info.
Yes eye tracking is very handy and good when it works for you.

 

[Ken Miracle]

A lot already covered in good detail here, and yes the Z9 is more complicated but doable even for me and I am 73 LOL.

For my style of birding and bird photography I liked the D500, D850 and D6. I sold the D6 and D500 when I ordered a Z9 as soon as Steve said he "wished he had sold my D6" when the Z9 was released to grab the good offer I got very shortly after that. I kept the D850 as my only body for some time while waiting for the Z9 to arrive and got a Z6II even before the Z9 arrived to have as my eventual back up and very low light body for the Z9.

After using the Z9 with Z100-400 with and without the TC and now the 800PF I sent my D850 off to sell.

 

[Calson]

I sold my D5 and one of my D850 cameras in anticipation of getting my first Z9 camera. The D5 provided better AF tracking when an animal was rapidly approaching the camera and so in 5% of my shooting it provided better autofocus. The downside with the D5 was that in DX mode (or with much cropping of an image) it was a 9MP camera.

The D850 and the Z9 give me a 19MP image with a DX level of crop. That means I can use a shorter focal length lens to get the same usable image area for a picture. The 500mm PF on the D850 provides roughly the same image size as a 600mm f/4 on a D5/D6. To me that is significant and 95% of the time the D850 AF is as good as that of the D5 in terms of nailing the shot.

The Z9 provides me with D850 resolution and D5 autofocus performance in a single camera. I expect this is part of the reason for its popularity. The real downside is Nikon yet again not integrating a single user interface within a family of cameras. I could switch from a F100 to a F4 without missing a beat and this was nearly the case with the D500, D850, and D5. But with the Z series it is like 3 different product managers were involved for each group and they never talked to each other or agreed on a common approach. For my part this is why I decided against using a Z7 as a backup camera for the Z9 but chose to wait until I could buy a second Z9 camera.

 

[O]

I sold my D5 and one of my D850 cameras in anticipation of getting my first Z9 camera. The D5 provided better AF tracking when an animal was rapidly approaching the camera and so in 5% of my shooting it provided better autofocus. The downside with the D5 was that in DX mode (or with much cropping of an image) it was a 9MP camera.

The D850 and the Z9 give me a 19MP image with a DX level of crop. That means I can use a shorter focal length lens to get the same usable image area for a picture. The 500mm PF on the D850 provides roughly the same image size as a 600mm f/4 on a D5/D6. To me that is significant and 95% of the time the D850 AF is as good as that of the D5 in terms of nailing the shot.

The Z9 provides me with D850 resolution and D5 autofocus performance in a single camera. I expect this is part of the reason for its popularity. The real downside is Nikon yet again not integrating a single user interface within a family of cameras. I could switch from a F100 to a F4 without missing a beat and this was nearly the case with the D500, D850, and D5. But with the Z series it is like 3 different product managers were involved for each group and they never talked to each other or agreed on a common approach. For my part this is why I decided against using a Z7 as a backup camera for the Z9 but chose to wait until I could buy a second Z9 camera.

Understand what your saying.

The signature comments and general hands on findings emerging with the Z9 especially with its menu and focusing system are starting to appear more consistent from many Z9 owners as more time passes. I feel you need to be apt or good with software to drive this camera while Nikon works on major catch up.

The menu/operating system of the Z9 is frustrating and it should not be, it appears a bit like a rushed and i feel a bit of well we have the camera now, the board is screaming for profits and revenue and pressuring to get it out, lets just get it out and finish it in the field kind of thing.

The less is more design has been ignored.
I feel there has been a lot of priority on video.

I feel the D850 D6 is so far the best, reliable, enjoyable easy to use cameras Nikon has ever made, the Z9 is the new generation heavily leaning towards video.

My self, i use the Z9 with the D850 as a second camera, the D850 is also the fall back if i don't eventually get married to the Z9 in the near future remebering ist easy to rent what i want or need.

If i want to travel on holidays with a small light compact amazingly good sensor especially for low light i use, don't laugh, my DF, why, only because i have it, and it works brilliantly well especially with the Ziess 50mm 1.4 and a all the FX glass.

The DF with the D4 sensor, Its not the choice for many people but bi gees its enjoyable to use and makes me slow right down and become a photographer rather than a documentary recorder.

Speed and high resolution is wonderful, but i still feel a super large pixel size low resolution camera can also have its uniqueness and major benefits.

If i built a 2 camera system from the start it would be the Z9 with a later equivalent version of the Z6II if not the current Z6II. (ie; low light supper large pixels lower resolution camera.

 

[DaddySS]

I'm reviving this old post since for me at least, and I suspect many others, the mental struggle between DSLRs and Mirrorless continues and the comments, feedback and insights on this post are really valuable - not to provide answers or the "Ah Ha" moment - but to offer considerations, personal experience, and product knowledge that help in the process of figuring out your personal situation and direction.


Now almost two years on from the original post, I wonder what your experiences have been, how many have modified or changed direction, and what the influences were.

For me there are two distinct considerations; the emotion and joy of shooting with a great camera and great glass, and the technical - the technology, quality, and capability of the systems.
I'll start with the emotional. I've had a serious case of NAS for years now and until recently I had 41 lenses.....I know, don't say it.... I love the look, the feel, and capability of great glass. In too many cases I bought a lens because someone said it's a great lens and a must have for (pick your subject), and I thought - well I need to do more of that so I'll get the lens and do it. In reality I enjoyed acquiring the lens and the possibility of using it but rarely or never did. About three or four years ago I bought my first mirrorless - a Z50 kit - as a "toe dipping" exercise to check out the EVF and other capabilities. I was impressed with the little overall but I mainly stayed with my D850 and D750 for landscape, D7500 for casual use and my D500 or D5 for wildlife. As the Z cameras progressed I bought a Z6 and a 24-70 f4 for some of the landscape work. The Z6 was fine and I enjoyed it, but the size and feel of my D850 (I have big hands) the sound of the mirror and shutter, the look and feel of the Nikon F lenses, all contributed to an emotional experience and a "process" of slowing down, setting up the shot, tweaking the exposure and composition, and "photographing" as more of an immersive process. Figuring that it was just me, and I needed to understand the capabilities of the Z system, I bought the Z7, FTZ, and the 24-200 when that came out. I didn't like the balance of the Z and FTZ with my F glass, although for the bigger tripod mounted glass it was obviously less of an issue. Still, the Z system Cameras and lenses felt cold, and impersonal, they have a shine to them unlike the matte or spatter texture of the Ds and Fs - they felt more like spray can than a paint brush for creating images.

On the technical side there's a lot to consider, both technical details and capabilities and the outlook for DSLRs. When the Z9 came out, I went to my local camera store to give it try after hearing and reading about all the features. The size and feel of that camera was excellent and I bought one shortly thereafter. Back to the emotion for a moment – The Z9 feels good in my hand and the frame rate is impressive but when I hold the D5 and fire at 20 FPS I get goosebumps! When the Z8 came out it represented a nice upgrade from the Z7, larger better feel in my hands, large eyepiece like the Z9 and terrific processor and frame rate. I now own the Z8 too having traded in my Z7.
I readily admit that I haven’t spent enough time with those two to better understand the Nuance and all options and set up preferences but I find the focus tracking sometimes difficult to manage and in a number of cases just prefer the simplicity of using dynamic or 3D tracking on the D cameras less frustrating. I should note that I bought Steve’s setup guide and have been working with the various options but I haven’t spent enough time experimenting with the different options for the variety of situations but I’m working on it.
The Zs are amazing cameras and the Z lenses are sharp and clean – the best Nikon has produced – and that’s a real plus for going mirrorless.
The other consideration on the technical side is Nikon’s dwindling support for DSLRs and F glass. The D500 is now archived along with a growing list of lenses, the parts and accessories are disappearing and there’s no new development or upgrades on the horizon. Realistically it shouldn’t be a big deal, much of my DSLR and F lens gear are 10 or more years old and working fine, but I don’t like depending on a system that it appears Nikon is phasing out.

So after a great deal of mental anguish and back and forth for months over what to do, what to keep and what to sell, will I miss one camera or lens or the other, I’ve settled on the following approach;

I’ll keep my D5, D850, and D500 for now and sell the D750, D810,and D7500. I’ll use them for Landscape, some of the wildlife, and portrait work.
Keep my three kings F mount lenses and some of the specialized primes – 500PF, 400, 105 f1.4, 58, 20, 8-15, etc. while I keep the DSLRs and sell all the other lenses that I really like but just don’t use.
Use the Zs where they shine – wildlife, and for a light gear option when hiking.
Work with Z cameras and long lenses - 800, 600, etc. to improve my ability to take advantage of their capabilities.
Re-visit the approach after six or twelve months.

This way I keep the DSLRs for when I love to use them, use the Zs where their capabilities excel, and take the time to settle into the decisions.
Sorry for the really long post, and if you’ve made it this far, I would really appreciate your thoughts and insights.

Richard

 

[Ken Miracle]

As noted back in 2022 I sold off all of my DSLR and f mount glass the last to go was my D850 and 600 f/4E in May of 2022 after I got my Z800. Besides the great price I got for my D6 mentioned earlier I got a great price for my 600 f/4E and D850 in May 2022 so I got lucky and sold off all of my DSLR's and f mount glass while used prices were much higher and that funded my move to the Z system.

Read @Steve 's book that you have. I have and keep it updated as firmware updates. As Steve says you also have to use what works for you. I used BBF for a year back in my DSLR days and went back to shutter focus and have stayed that way with Z9's. I want my thumb free for other duties.

Short answer I have not missed my D500, D850 or D6 at all and now have 2 Z9's set up the same. Unlike Steve I use 2 banks A the majority of the time when I am photographing birds for ID for citizen science 90% + and Bank B set up for people.

 

[O]

The D850 D6 are the gems in DSLRS. Sell every thing else.

The Z9 Z8 are the gems in mirrorless. Sell everything else.

Once you use a Z9 or Z8 you won't want to use any other Z camera, same in the DSLR s with the D850 D6 once you use them you won't want to use any other DSLR.

The D6 is brilliant as is the Z9, difference in glass is your main consideration as to if the benefits are warranted.

I have had the Z9 since late 2021, late 2023 it sort of caught up to the market.

I sold my Z9 a few weeks ago, no regrets, weight and size limited my frequency of use for what I was doing or needed, more than I felt was reasonable.

Also I sold it while I could still get a respectable price.

My needs have changed as far as photography goes making the Z9 a powerful but heavy big overkill tool.

I am waiting for the Z7III hoping it will be 60mp.

Only an opinion

 

[fcotterill]

Welcome to BCG @DaddyS. I know from personal experience that Nikonitis is incurable. Even if one's condition stabilizes, even for many months, a sudden encounter or reading a news item triggers a relapse....in pursuit of yet another lens [ILC], which one doesn't really need, in truth! My case started in the early 1980s even before I could afford a Nikon.

I have a pair of Z9's as primary workhorses, but I also use the D6 regularly. Nothing has changed since my previous posts on the D6. Yes there's definitely the deep joy of continuing to use what is arguably the best DSLR ever made (IMHO). I also keep a well worn D850 as an extremely capable backup ILC; its resale value also makes it pointless to trade in. (I started with a Nikon FM2 4 decades ago when at university, although it took years to afford high end and keep perfectly working lenses from the '80s: eg 55 f2.8AIS Micro.) However, besides the 500 PF (also keeping this gem) the new, lighter lenses have a big advantages, especially for hiking. The 800 PF especially, and 70-180 f2.8, 400 f4.5S etc.

The D6 AF is still lightening fast, and it definitely has the advantage over any MILC picking up subjects in clutter eg small birds in thick foliage, compared against the Bird Detect of the Z9. The abilities - namely stickiness - of the eye/face recognition engine in the D6 has been greatly underappreciated.

The keys to the D6 Autofocus are the EXPEED6 and Multi-Cam 37K autofocus module with 105-point sensors: more densely packaged in a triple-sensor arrangement. These comprise a full array of all-cross-type triplet sensors, unlike the subset in the D5 AF chip.

z9 z8 AF won't stick to bird head.

Improvements to the Auto AF area since I first had a Z9 way back have been nothing but remarkable. My hit rate on kingfishers, in the wild, in flight with Auto AF has been remarkably good even with quite busy backgrounds. Almost as good as an A1 where I would mainly be using zone AF. Given how...

bcgforums.com

 

[O]

Welcome to BCG @DaddyS. I know from personal experience that Nikonitis is incurable. Even if one's condition stabilizes, even for many months, a sudden encounter or reading a news item triggers a relapse....in pursuit of yet another lens [ILC], which one doesn't really need, in truth! My case started in the early 1980s even before I could afford a Nikon.

I have a pair of Z9's as primary workhorses, but I also use the D6 regularly. Nothing has changed since my previous posts on the D6. Yes there's definitely the deep joy of continuing to use what is arguably best DSLR ever made (IMHO). I also keep a well worn D850 as an extremely capable backup ILC; its resale values also makes it pointless to trade in. (I started with a Nikon FM2 4 decades ago when at university, although it took years to afford high end and keep perfectly working lenses from the '80s: eg 55 f2.8AIS Micro.) However, besides the 500 PF (also keeping this gem) the new, lighter lenses have a big advantages, especially for hiking. The 800 PF especially, and 70-180 f2.8, 400 f4.5S etc.

The D6 AF is still lightening fast, and it definitely has the advantage over any MILC picking up subjects in clutter eg small birds in thick foliage, even against the Bird Detect of the Z9. The abilities of the eye/face recognition engine in the D6 has been greatly underappreciated.

Agree, for really tough challenging lower contrast and especially low light high iso , sorry the D6 defiantly edges out mirrorless.
If I have a critical shoot with a once in a life time opportunity I usually rent a D6 every time.
If I have a team of shooters and need 2 or 3 extra bodies its the D6 and DSLR glass because everyone can adapt easily with out facing IT complicated learning curves.
Mind you the Z9 is great but there is a difference still, it really depends on the actual scene light and challenges as how much you can see the difference.

If you notice the ZF has 10 ? stops of light sensitivity and 8 stops not 5 of stabilisation, something that will filter through to newer models.
Mirrorless has come a long way, newer models may overcome some of the occasional low contrast low light issues.
The mirror less range of cameras coming will really be interesting, one thing for certain is price swill be different.
But to the point, the D6 is a highly underrated camera and is defiantly a NOT a fair-weather tool.

 

[Phil Seu]

I have never used a D6 but went from a D500 to a Z9. The one advantage of mirrorless I don't hear discussed much is how easy it is to get the exposure right. I almost always shoot in Manual and one look through the view finder and a quick adjustment of the ISO is all it takes. Or sometimes I adjust the ISO as I am framing my shot. So easy to just eyeball the exposure. I never meter anymore.

 

[Larry S.]

That’s interesting. I note that Steve got rid of his D6 when he got the Z9 and he still seems to have his D850. Perhaps I should be thinking of not going ahead with the Z9 at the present time and stick with the D850 and D6!

Consider this….. when you are shooting in “continuous mode” the shutter flap sounds like a tiny machine gun…. ratta tat tat.. scares the crap out of the critters and they’re gone…. Mirrorless is quiet… ALSO…. Z9 has IBIS (in body image stabilization). It’s superior to the DSLRs..

 

[Ken Miracle]

I come from the persepective of a bird ID specialist so I shoot a lot of birds in the bushes and trees.

If you use a Z9 with current firmware was 4.10 now 5.0 and expose correctly on darker low contrast birds in the bushes and trees with or without subject detection on the Z9 would out perform my no sold D6 in fact it did before the D6 was sold with even earlier firmware but now I can do it without increasing proper exposure with EV which I do anyway. Huge power for me in using wide area custom 1x1 with subject detection on. How much of that was the difference between the Z800 on the Z9 compared to the 600 f/4E on the D6 I do not know since I could not use the Z800 on the D6. But last May the Z9 + Z800 combo had me sell the D6, D850 and 600 f/4 E. I take bird ID photos in all sorts of crazy light and habitat and it was an easy choice. A live histogram in the viewfinder was also a game changer. I still have a one button option to toggle subject detection on and off .. anymore I use it if I have a tree full of birds a long way off where I want to focus on the whole flock or I have a non bird I want to photograph otherwise it stays on.

Did I get good shots with D6 yes and with D500, D850, D300s and my nostalgia camera D4s, but my Z9 can do everything those could do and more since it has a Z800 that the others could not use.

 

[Ken Miracle]

That’s interesting. I note that Steve got rid of his D6 when he got the Z9 and he still seems to have his D850. Perhaps I should be thinking of not going ahead with the Z9 at the present time and stick with the D850 and D6!

@Steve would have to weigh in but I do not think he uses a D850 anymore.

 

[DaddySS]

Thanks all for the great comments and feedback. I'm hoping that in using the Z8 and 9 along with some of the Z glass that I'll settle into the mirrorless world. As nuts as it sounds, I wish Nikon would add the sound and haptics of the DSLRs for the Z cameras. It may be just me but I love the sound of the D850 capturing a portrait or landscape shot. Agree with Larry S. that you want to be quieter or silent when shooting wildlife but the "tick" of the Z cameras leaves a lot to be desired for an old DSLR shooter. The new sound options are better for sure but I think they can be improved.

Another item for which I'd appreciate feedback is my F 400 f2.8G. I've kept for partly emotional reasons - it was my first "Big Glass" purchase - and partly as a consideration when still using the DSLRs. There's real magic in a bird shot at f2.8 or f4 but I've also got the F 600 f4e and the improved weight and size along with greater reach make it more usable for birds. Now that I've got the Z400 f4.5 and 600 f6.3, it seems like the F 400 logically should go, I've just been stubbornly holding on to f2.8.

 

[Ken Miracle]

If you have @Steve s book The Ultimate Nikon Z8/Z9 Set up and shooting guide for wildlife photography go to page 51 for information on all the custom sounds built into your Z9 and Z8 ... you can have a multitude of sounds all available in your set up menu under camera sounds.

 

[Doomrider74]

Thanks all for the great comments and feedback. I'm hoping that in using the Z8 and 9 along with some of the Z glass that I'll settle into the mirrorless world. As nuts as it sounds, I wish Nikon would add the sound and haptics of the DSLRs for the Z cameras. It may be just me but I love the sound of the D850 capturing a portrait or landscape shot. Agree with Larry S. that you want to be quieter or silent when shooting wildlife but the "tick" of the Z cameras leaves a lot to be desired for an old DSLR shooter. The new sound options are better for sure but I think they can be improved.

Another item for which I'd appreciate feedback is my F 400 f2.8G. I've kept for partly emotional reasons - it was my first "Big Glass" purchase - and partly as a consideration when still using the DSLRs. There's real magic in a bird shot at f2.8 or f4 but I've also got the F 600 f4e and the improved weight and size along with greater reach make it more usable for birds. Now that I've got the Z400 f4.5 and 600 f6.3, it seems like the F 400 logically should go, I've just been stubbornly holding on to f2.8.

TBH the sound of my D500 is one of the things that is tempting me to switch to ML: It sounds and feels like a machine gun each time I shoot a burst and it's something I'm really conscious of these days, especially around others who are using ML.

 

[Shutterbug fan 1]

My only experience with BIF is shooting Burrowing Owls with the Z9 and it did not fail even at great distances. My main body of work is event photography and along with the Z9 I have uses for the D6, and D850 depending on the event.

 

[Chris K]

TBH the sound of my D500 is one of the things that is tempting me to switch to ML: It sounds and feels like a machine gun each time I shoot a burst and it's something I'm really conscious of these days, especially around others who are using ML.

You would be very happy with a Z8/Z9.

The electronic shutter is near silent, and makes no shock in the body.

You can set a very quiet shutter sound so you have feedback when you’re shooting. The sound comes out a tiny speaker under the eyepiece assembly, and at its quietest someone five feet away will not hear it.

I use the quietest setting even in quiet environments, because you can lean on the shutter and fire hundreds of frames without realizing it, if you make it silent.

My Zf isn’t loud by any means, but next to the Z9 it’s obnoxious!

 

[Doomrider74]

You would be very happy with a Z8/Z9.

The electronic shutter is near silent, and makes no shock in the body.

You can set a very quiet shutter sound so you have feedback when you’re shooting. The sound comes out a tiny speaker under the eyepiece assembly, and at its quietest someone five feet away will not hear it.

I use the quietest setting even in quiet environments, because you can lean on the shutter and fire hundreds of frames without realizing it, if you make it silent.

My Zf isn’t loud by any means, but next to the Z9 it’s obnoxious!

Yeah, but the Z8 is over $5k (nearer 6K after tax) here in Canada, compared to the $2k I paid for my D500. I get that the extra features justify the price, but that doesn't make it any easier to afford, especially as a Z8 would become a very expensive DX camera, for me.

 

[DaddySS]

Along the same line of discussion and switching now to lenses; Although it's only two stops, the Z 600 f/6.3 is very different from the F Mount 600 f/4 when it comes to low light or softening the background. I have the 600 f/4e, and the 400 f/2.8g, and no way can I justify $13k on the z 400 f/2.8 TC but I was thinking if I sell the two F mounts and get the F 400 f/2.8 and use it with the TC 1.4III and the FTZ, I would essential have the Z equivalent for 1/3 the cost? I'd appreciate your thoughts.

 

[DaddySS]

Welcome to BCG @DaddyS. I know from personal experience that Nikonitis is incurable. Even if one's condition stabilizes, even for many months, a sudden encounter or reading a news item triggers a relapse....in pursuit of yet another lens [ILC], which one doesn't really need, in truth! My case started in the early 1980s even before I could afford a Nikon.

I have a pair of Z9's as primary workhorses, but I also use the D6 regularly. Nothing has changed since my previous posts on the D6. Yes there's definitely the deep joy of continuing to use what is arguably best DSLR ever made (IMHO). I also keep a well worn D850 as an extremely capable backup ILC; its resale values also makes it pointless to trade in. (I started with a Nikon FM2 4 decades ago when at university, although it took years to afford high end and keep perfectly working lenses from the '80s: eg 55 f2.8AIS Micro.) However, besides the 500 PF (also keeping this gem) the new, lighter lenses have a big advantages, especially for hiking. The 800 PF especially, and 70-180 f2.8, 400 f4.5S etc.

The D6 AF is still lightening fast, and it definitely has the advantage over any MILC picking up subjects in clutter eg small birds in thick foliage, even against the Bird Detect of the Z9. The abilities of the eye/face recognition engine in the D6 has been greatly underappreciated.

BTW, I've been a "lurking" member here for a while and thanks for the welcome.