Nikon z9 vs Z8…. Not what I expected…

[John Navitsky]

I would be curious to hear from folks whether they shut off SD for owls, eagle strikes, etc.

not birds, but i did an event recently with dogs indoors with really bad light (worse than normal indoor dog sports). i ended up feeling like sd was on net working against me and turned it off for most of the time.

THAT SAID, it is basically impossible to _really_ know. we need controlled situations to really know, and the problem is these things only really manifest when situations get complex enough that they are difficult to simulate in a controlled environment.

dunno

ETA: normally, i never turn off subject detection, so

 

[Calson]

I doubt the autofocus motors can work as fast with a EN-EL15 battery for power as compared to the EN-EL18 battery. With my D850 cameras I would often use the battery grip so I could use EN-EL18 batteries to maximize fps and also autofocus performance. The motors themselves are different and with the D5 the target acquisition of a fast approaching bird was much faster than with my D850 using the same EN-EL18 battery.

I chose Nikon's Z9 camera in large part to get the larger battery which is not available with Sony or Canon cameras.

 

[Garfield]

After shooting with a Z9 for 1.5 years and getting a Z8 and using them side by side for a month and ultimately opting to just keep the Z8 - I noticed no difference in performance whatsoever. The only difference for me was less weight to carry around + worse battery life (but not as bad as some paint it). Tradeoffs. YMMW.

This.
I loved the handing ergos of the Z9 but not the weight and the size is a drawback when shooting from the car so I sold it off after I got the Z8. For me, smaller and lighter is always a plus whether on a tripod or handholding and having to carry around an extra battery is a non-issue, though I don't shoot professionally.

 

[EricBowles]

I turn off subject detection a lot. If a subject is relatively close and not picking up the target perfectly, I know I can use something like Dynamic Small and have a 90-95% keeper rate. I was in Cades Cove earlier this week photographing more wildlife than normal, and probably had subject detection turned off 30% of the time. Subjects were deer at close range (WideSmall was picking up grasses occasionally), bears (too dark for the eye detection to work well), elk (photographing a doe and youngster grooming each other and the wrong eye was picked up), and wild turkeys (occasionally picking up the back or side rather than the eye).

If you are prepared when subject detection does not work, it's very easy to switch modes and get the shots you need.

 

[Matt N]

I doubt the autofocus motors can work as fast with a EN-EL15 battery for power as compared to the EN-EL18 battery. With my D850 cameras I would often use the battery grip so I could use EN-EL18 batteries to maximize fps and also autofocus performance. The motors themselves are different and with the D5 the target acquisition of a fast approaching bird was much faster than with my D850 using the same EN-EL18 battery.

I chose Nikon's Z9 camera in large part to get the larger battery which is not available with Sony or Canon cameras.

I know with Canon, certain bodies were able to power the autofocus motors of large primes better than other bodies. I have the Z8 now and I'm looking at getting a second body (either a Z8 or Z9). Primarily I'll use it with the 800 pf and hopefully someday, the 600 TC, but there will be rare occasions when my wife has the Z8 and I have the new one (Z8 or Z9) for other types of photography (portraits, horses, etc.). So my interest in this thread is this: would the Z9 power the larger lenses better or not? Does anyone have evidence of this or personal experience that indicates it's true?

 

[Doomrider74]

I turn off subject detection a lot. If a subject is relatively close and not picking up the target perfectly, I know I can use something like Dynamic Small and have a 90-95% keeper rate. I was in Cades Cove earlier this week photographing more wildlife than normal, and probably had subject detection turned off 30% of the time. Subjects were deer at close range (WideSmall was picking up grasses occasionally), bears (too dark for the eye detection to work well), elk (photographing a doe and youngster grooming each other and the wrong eye was picked up), and wild turkeys (occasionally picking up the back or side rather than the eye).

If you are prepared when subject detection does not work, it's very easy to switch modes and get the shots you need.

I use 3D AF in the same way: If SD isn't working (I find it likes black bear butts more than their eyes), I'll leave 3D on but turn off SD: Doing that, I find I can focus on the eye and it will track that point.

 

[thelordofthelight]

I turn off SD most of the time when shooting BIF/Action. Probably the only time i keep it on is when i am shooting large birds that are just gliding/ flying In a relatively predictable flight path. Even then, i always use Wide-L with SD on, set to AF-ON button. If i notice the BEAF struggling, i simply turn off SD that i have programmed to the lens fn button. Problem with turning off SD is when a bird flies side ways, it is important to keep the AF box towards the neck, failing which it will most likely grab the wings. Also, when shooting small, erratic birds like swallows, it is hard to keep the bird even within the AF-L box and using a larger C1/C2 box doesn’t help either as the camera tends to grab the BG more often when photographing against busy BG.

Spent some time in the woods this afternoon and the Z8's SD was working pretty well on perched birds though was struggling with the turkeys where it seemed to prefer the back feathers even with a Wide S on the head. It wasn't doing so well for passerines in flight, so I simply turned it off and improved the hit rate dramatically. Turning off the SD is usually something I usually reserve for fast and explosive subjects like KF's diving, but I'm relying on it more and more. SD really seems to throttle the AF speed for birds and perhaps it is attributable to the complexity of the subject unlike airplanes where the subject recognition hits almost every time.

I would be curious to hear from folks whether they shut off SD for owls, eagle strikes, etc.

 

[EricBowles]

I know with Canon, certain bodies were able to power the autofocus motors of large primes better than other bodies. I have the Z8 now and I'm looking at getting a second body (either a Z8 or Z9). Primarily I'll use it with the 800 pf and hopefully someday, the 600 TC, but there will be rare occasions when my wife has the Z8 and I have the new one (Z8 or Z9) for other types of photography (portraits, horses, etc.). So my interest in this thread is this: would the Z9 power the larger lenses better or not? Does anyone have evidence of this or personal experience that indicates it's true?

I'm not sure. Steve has done some work with focus speed of lenses but I don't know that he has covered camera differences with current firmware. I would assume the Z9 is a little faster in terms of all the related features - subject detection, focus recognition, and moving the lens elements as needed. The Z9 uses a larger batter with higher output - and it is that way for a reason. The difference is small - but favors a Z9. That was certainly the case for the D5 vs. D500 and D6 vs. D850. The flagship cameras are faster.

I don't think the speed difference is significant in most real world use.

 

[jcgamble]

Very interesting read as I’m looking to purchase a 2nd body to back up Z9 and looking at Z8 or less likely (due to my big muckle hands) Z6III……decisions / decisions.

Lots of food for thought on this thread.

I got the Z6III with a battery grip, love the feel and performance to back up my Z9. It is very similar in size, about a 1/2 lb lighter with the grip. I've had grip for DSLRs before and never really used them much.

 

[lukemeup]

Steve actually made a comparison of AF speed of Z8 vs Z9 in this video here -

- larger battery doesn't 'drive' the lenses faster. Lets just put this to rest.

 

[maxxus46]

Borrowed my friends Z9 the other day to run alongside my Z8. I wanted to see if I could notice any perceived difference when chasing a very lively dog around the yard. I could not, no matter how much I tried to push either camera , see any difference in AF performance (acquisition or tracking). I took a few hundred shots with both cameras and Same lens (70-200 2.8 & 600PF) and light remained pretty consistent for the hour long session. When culling the photos I compared similar shots from both cameras and again, it was dead even. . There simply is no perceived or real difference between these two cameras. I think most cases are due to misunderstanding of the cameras AF system or expectations under different circumstances (different light, subject distance etc). Only real difference been these two bodies are ergonomic (size, weight and grip ), battery, and single CF expees card slot, which are the only factors I would use before making a purchase of either. YMMV

 

[wotan1]

I would think the z 8 and 9 would be functionally so close that any difference would be irrelevant.

There however have been and continue to be firmware differences. The only way for sure to tell is to conduct tests with current firmware. Tests that were done earlier would not be accurate today.

Historically the Z9 gets the best stuff first, you would expect the flagship would get the best of everything because, well, it is the flagship.

Lately however the Z8 has gotten preferential treatment. It has pixel shift but the Z9 does not.

As a Z9 user I used to feel smug and self-righteous, now I feel abandoned and ignored. I am waiting patiently for the next firmware upgrade when Nikon restores my Z9's superiority and I can be smug again. Maddeningly I have been teased with rumors of an impending firmware upgrade for the Z9 for months now and I WANT IT. Remember Nikon we Z9 owners paid for our right to feel smug.

It is clear however that the Z9 has physical advantages including bigger battery, dual CF B slots and more robust heat sinking as well as built in dual grip. On the other hand the Z8 is lighter and more compact.

Of course the rumored Z9ii remains on the horizon when all our wishes will come true.