Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread

[Darwin]

If the 400 2.8 with built in 1.4 can take an external 1.4 and get to 784mm 5.6 with no issues, I might not wait for a z 600 f4 and sell me current 500 f4. A 600 with extender nets 56mm extra, might rather have the option to shoot at 2.8 once in awhile and still get almost same reach as the 600 with less size and weight. But I doubt the clarity will be there with the two extender vs the one. Exciting times ahead none the less.

 

[DRwyoming]

I posted this earlier from DP Review. Isn't this what we want?

Quoted from DP Review - https://www.dpreview.com/articles/3230207217/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-nikon-z9?slide=16

And if you don't wish to scroll through AF modes and area modes, and simply directly engage them instead, the Z9 finally sees the return of one of our favorite features on recent Nikon DSLRs: the ability to assign custom buttons to 'AF area mode + AF-ON' in order to switch to and engage any AF area mode, instantly. This means 3D Tracking could be your default focus mode engaged by the shutter button, while AF-ON or a Fn button could be assigned to instantly engage Single Point or Auto Area AF for those moments you don't want subject tracking AF. When the action is quick and you don't have the time to fumble with buttons and dials, this way of working can be revolutionary.

As a minimum that's certainly what I want. I like the single button press to select an alternate focus area mode like I can on my D5 or D500. I wish all the Z cameras had that and currently my Z6II does not.

But additionally I'd sure like button Toggle modes like what Sony has. That's different than a button that requires you to hold it in to use a certain mode. With a toggle you hit the button once to switch to an alternate mode and the camera stays in that mode until you hit the button again to return to your default mode. It's a small thing but a clever way to quickly switch to another shooting mode without having the spin dials and without having to keep holding in that button to stay in the alternate mode.

Toggled functions could let you quickly switch the camera from something like a wide area tracking mode with or without eye detection to maybe a single point AF area mode and it would stay setup that way without holding a button in until you were ready to toggle back. Or you could set up the camera for a faster action shutter speed and toggle to a slower shutter speed to bring ISO down and again the camera would stay in that mode until. you toggled back again. Lot's of creative ways to use state toggles if the camera vendors provide that function.

That said, I'm real happy to see Nikon brought back the ability to assign focus area modes to button presses as that's something I really miss when operating my Z camera.

 

[jeffnles1]

I posted this earlier from DP Review. Isn't this what we want?

Quoted from DP Review - https://www.dpreview.com/articles/3230207217/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-nikon-z9?slide=16

And if you don't wish to scroll through AF modes and area modes, and simply directly engage them instead, the Z9 finally sees the return of one of our favorite features on recent Nikon DSLRs: the ability to assign custom buttons to 'AF area mode + AF-ON' in order to switch to and engage any AF area mode, instantly. This means 3D Tracking could be your default focus mode engaged by the shutter button, while AF-ON or a Fn button could be assigned to instantly engage Single Point or Auto Area AF for those moments you don't want subject tracking AF. When the action is quick and you don't have the time to fumble with buttons and dials, this way of working can be revolutionary.

That is a nice feature. On my D500 I have AF-C - Single spot as the default. My Fn1 button is to change single to group. PV button is to engage spot metering (I have matrix as default). Fn2 brings up the "my menu" feature. Front wheel is for exposure time, back wheel is for aperture. Just seems to work for me. I wasn't aware the Z cameras couldn't do this. That would be a great loss. Glad they brought it back in the Z9. Hopefully the ability to map AF mode to a Fn button is something they can bring back in a firmware update. It wouldn't seem like it would be a hardware issue.

Jeff

 

[John Navitsky]

I am using Sony Tough CFExpress card Type A with A1 & finding the buffer to be pretty good.The speed of the card is only 800R & 700 W .From what i have read here the bst card to be used with Z9 seem to be having around 1700 R/W speeds.Does this meanthat CF Express cards Type A are better than Type B cards even at half the speed o?

No, it means Nikon and Sony have used very different strategies to solve the same problem. We can infer that Sony provides more, fast, on-camera memory buffer so when your images are shot, they go into this on-camera buffer memory, then are written to the card. Nikon on the other hand appears to have used very little on-camera buffer memory, instead relying on the speed of the media to keep up. This means that Sony can run fast with slow media (remember you can even use SD media on that camera).... until you fill the buffer. Once you hit the buffer you go as slow as the media and CFE-A has a max theoretical of 1000MB/s, and CFE-B has a max theoretical of 2000MB/s and SD is probably slower than that. On the other hand, the Nikon will go slow if you have slow media, but fast if you have fast media. Indeed, if you have fast enough media, you can shoot effectively forever on the Nikon, and that will definitely not be the case with the A1. However, that may be fine as you rarely need to shoot "forever". So given the right situation, both probably perform fine, but the result was achieved in very different ways. Before anyone says the buffer approach "wins" because it allows you to get the same result with slow media, remember that fast on board memory costs you, and it's probably part of the reason for the price difference between the cameras. [EDIT: another thing to consider is having that big high speed channel all the way to the media will be key in certain use cases like video. i don't know if anyone has run the numbers for 8k60p (and they mentioned it's oversized 8k), but it's possibly faster than you can write to CFE-a. in the end you can't buffer your way out of a big data stream and that big data stream opens up possibilities. edit-edit, it sounds like you only need 400MB/s for most 8k, but it sounds like you need a lot more for the upcoming prores support. 1700MB/s if i recall correctly. if that's right, the release next year might be timed with the release of newer, faster media, because it's not clear if any current media can actually sustain 1700MB/s]

 

[Venkatesh VT]

No, it means Nikon and Sony have used very different strategies to solve the same problem. We can infer that Sony provides more, fast, on-camera memory buffer so when your images are shot, they go into this on-camera buffer memory, then are written to the card. Nikon on the other hand appears to have used very little on-camera buffer memory, instead relying on the speed of the media to keep up. This means that Sony can run fast with slow media (remember you can even use SD media on that camera).... until you fill the buffer. Once you hit the buffer you go as slow as the media and CFE-A has a max theoretical of 1000MB/s, and CFE-B has a max theoretical of 2000MB/s and SD is probably slower than that. On the other hand, the Nikon will go slow if you have slow media, but fast if you have fast media. Indeed, if you have fast enough media, you can shoot effectively forever on the Nikon, and that will definitely not be the case with the A1. However, that may be fine as you rarely need to shoot "forever". So given the right situation, both probably perform fine, but the result was achieved in very different ways. Before anyone says the buffer approach "wins" because it allows you to get the same result with slow media, remember that fast on board memory costs you, and it's probably part of the reason for the price difference between the cameras. [EDIT: another thing to consider is having that big high speed channel all the way to the media will be key in certain use cases like video. i don't know if anyone has run the numbers for 8k60p (and they mentioned it's oversized 8k), but it's possibly faster than you can write to CFE-a. in the end you can't buffer your way out of a big data stream and that big data stream opens up possibilities]

I think the strategy adopted by both seem to be for backward compatibility (Sony for SD & Nikon for XQD) rather than any thing else.I am sure Steve ould bring ou the facts when he does side by side field test of both
R1 may even break the tradition & go for Type C cards(4000 mb/s)

 

[John Navitsky]

I think the strategy adopted by both seem to be for backward compatibility (Sony for SD & Nikon for XQD) rather than any thing else.I am sure Steve ould bring ou the facts when he does side by side field test of both
R1 may even break the tradition & go for Type C cards(4000 mb/s)

Maybe I guess. Personally I think the _availability_ of CFE-B and it's 2000MB/s performance is what led them to go that direction more than XQD comparability. The problem with CFE-C cards it they are unavailable.

I do think Sony thought they were providing the best of all worlds. Or at least they figured they could sell that narrative. Put a big buffer in, you can use even SD cards. The only real gotcha is if you need to push more data for longer than that buffer can handle, so it's not a great strategy for video. I also suspect Sony didn't do it because it requires a lot of infrastructure that I bet they didn't have available. Remember Nikon built the Expeed 7 to provide this pipeline, I suspect Sony didn't have that infrastructure ready.

 

[abc123brian]

I think the strategy adopted by both seem to be for backward compatibility (Sony for SD & Nikon for XQD) rather than any thing else.I am sure Steve ould bring ou the facts when he does side by side field test of both
R1 may even break the tradition & go for Type C cards(4000 mb/s)

I think you misunderstood what he meant. The problem to solve was how to accomplish handling high FPS. The A1 has a larger buffer to compensate for a slower media and Nikon went with a smaller buffer because of the faster media. If you put slow media in the Z9, you hit the buffer quickly but with the fastest media, you get to shoot many more shots potentially without hitting a buffer limit. The A1 is going to have a larger buffer, but once you hit it, it will be slower to clear and will theoretically always remain about the same size. The choice of backward compatibility may or may not have been a factor in why they made the choice they did.

 

[Venkatesh VT]

Maybe I guess. Personally I think the _availability_ of CFE-B and it's 2000MB/s performance is what led them to go that direction more than XQD comparability. The problem with CFE-C cards it they are unavailable.

I do think Sony thought they were providing the best of all worlds. Or at least they figured they could sell that narrative. Put a big buffer in, you can use even SD cards. The only real gotcha is if you need to push more data for longer than that buffer can handle, so it's not a great strategy for video. I also suspect Sony didn't do it because it requires a lot of infrastructure that I bet they didn't have available. Remember Nikon built the Expeed 7 to provide this pipeline, I suspect Sony didn't have that infrastructure ready.

From what we know Nikon built Expeed 6 processor for Z 6 & 7 ii series for faster buffer & still they could not get proper AF (slower write speeds seem to affect AF also) & hence they may have gone for Expeed 7.Sony never had any AF issue with A9,A9 ii & hence could finally build their A1 & hence may not have any requirement for any infrastructure adopted by Nikon
How ever what matters to the the wild life photographers is how the cameras perform in the field & for that we have to wait for real world reviews by non ambassador .
For me that means Steve (though i have laready bought A1 & hoping that my back up camera will be Z8 with 500 Pf(which i already have)

 

[fcotterill]

Live Discussion wrt posts above
Here are some sections I flagged in the Youtube recording.

13:00 starts after preamble etc with Specs

16:00 Nikon's claims. all RAW = 14bit, Video banks are New

19:00 Haptics, layout of controls etc [also 1,22:30]

26:00 fps vs RAW, jpg etc. No more 12bit RAW

32:00 Autofocus. TH underscored an aspect of the Z9 autofocus, which no one else had mentioned IME (judged from screening a lot of material over the past few days). The benefits etc of these improved AF Modes of the Nikon Z Autofocus system stand out already across first reports on the camera; and we are likely to learn much more about its importance in the wild.

The AI subject recognition of objects is encoded in the 3D Tracking in the hierarchical structure to culminate in drilling down to the smallest Object - namely the Eye. It appears from the preliminary evidence of images and EVF footage that if 3D tracking cannot find Eyes it reverts to Heads; then Bodies/Torsos.... It is Always tracking shapes when this mode is activated by the photographer. As TH concluded, the deeper details as to how Nikon has actually implemented this hierarchical shape recognition are not at all clear.

It is very clear this AI empowered 3D OR works across a diverse range of active subjects, humans, animals (including fishes), birds and vehicles!

Vehicle Tracking works similarly as human, anmal modes with recognizing the Hierarchy of Vehicles > Cockpits > Front-of-a-Vehicle, down to smallest high contrast objects, headlights.

37:19-40:00 reiterated how the Z9 with reliable New auto/3D AF 'frees up photographer to concentrate on optimal image faming, composition etc... Overall take is not a lot of Limits to the Z9 > many New "camera opportunities"...

40:24 Electronic shutter 'most exciting' feature

42:00 Flicker free EVF key to framing action. Nikon finally has solved this. NO Blackout is BIG changer

42:30 "What you didn't see is what you get" wrt to major long held advantage of Leica rangefinders for journalism

49:00 Video specs

51:00 CF Cards wrt buffer. Note the table is TH compilation from initial tests etc off www reports. Subject to detailed testing

57:30 [also 1,36:40] the Z9 is most robust/weatherproof Flagship Nikon has ever made. Unlike Sony, reliable to shoot in rain. All chassis holes are sealed. As are new Z lenses - O-rings + fluoride coatings >> Very reliable rain-weatherproofing

1,03:00 new MH33 charger 1/2" bigger than new ENEL18d battery, which = much longer life. USB charges b,c,d versions in Z9 (but not ENEL18a)

1,08:00-1,22:00 New Z lenses

1,23:00 New Nikon Software

1,29:40 Timely to correct Disinformation against Nikon and Z9. refuted under 3 misinformed 'slogans' TH discusses -

1. 'comparing product lines in general vs specific cameras', errors of condemning a brand on this basis

2. 'cameras are a response to competition' > Z9 development likely started ~4 years ago.

3. 'Sony is only Sensor maker'

1,31:00... Same context, TH discussed more specifics:

View: original size

1,34:40 Nikon buffers keeps chugging writing to card if it fills; very quick to empty etc

1,37:00 CIPA Ratings for extreme use ie maxing out camera

1,40:00 For US, delivery is discussed. "Nikon is very eager to get cameras out..."

>>>

TH reiterated why the Z9 is a D1 Moment at several points in the Discussion, as he's opined here : https://bythom.com/newsviews/yes-the-camera-world-change.html

One point of interest flagged in this Discussion mentioned first feedback of the Z9 from Michelle Valberg; she says the 100-400 f4.5/5.6S gives excellent quality with the ZTC2 at f11, using 3D Tracking + Eye-Detect on the Z9. Some of these examples also include 500 f5.6E PF+T2 III, which is no less encouraging (reiterated in her recent video

). She also raves about the scope, speed and reliability of the 3D Tracking Mode+Eye Detect on a range of mammals and birds, also amphibians.

She will probably have much more to say about this aspects this weekend. Part of the Discussion day is Online (and free to registrants):
https://creativephotoacademy.com/event/revealing-the-soul-within-with-michelle-valberg-1/2021-11-07/

fyi a section of this can watched free, and she may present information additional to her video

 

[Venkatesh VT]

Owners of Z i & ii series are still hoping for AF improvement & I find no mention of these any where in Z9 discussions I think Nikon owes them an explanation .Past can not be just wished away

 

[StefanSC]

Most likely, first gen Zs will get minor AF updates at best while second gen Zs would get a bit meatier AF updates but don't expect them to even come close to the Z9 as the hardware is not there.

Nikon has already laid down the ground work for gently disappointing it's Z6/7 customers as it has repeatedly stated that these cameras are limited by their Expeed processors.

 

[Doug Herr]

No, it means Nikon and Sony have used very different strategies to solve the same problem. We can infer that Sony provides more, fast, on-camera memory buffer so when your images are shot, they go into this on-camera buffer memory, then are written to the card. Nikon on the other hand appears to have used very little on-camera buffer memory, instead relying on the speed of the media to keep up. This means that Sony can run fast with slow media (remember you can even use SD media on that camera).... until you fill the buffer. Once you hit the buffer you go as slow as the media and CFE-A has a max theoretical of 1000MB/s, and CFE-B has a max theoretical of 2000MB/s and SD is probably slower than that. On the other hand, the Nikon will go slow if you have slow media, but fast if you have fast media. Indeed, if you have fast enough media, you can shoot effectively forever on the Nikon, and that will definitely not be the case with the A1. However, that may be fine as you rarely need to shoot "forever". So given the right situation, both probably perform fine, but the result was achieved in very different ways. Before anyone says the buffer approach "wins" because it allows you to get the same result with slow media, remember that fast on board memory costs you, and it's probably part of the reason for the price difference between the cameras. [EDIT: another thing to consider is having that big high speed channel all the way to the media will be key in certain use cases like video. i don't know if anyone has run the numbers for 8k60p (and they mentioned it's oversized 8k), but it's possibly faster than you can write to CFE-a. in the end you can't buffer your way out of a big data stream and that big data stream opens up possibilities]

Slashcam News : Sony A1 and overheating in 8K video recording - what is the status?

www.slashcam.com

 

[zule11]

NikonTV | Z 9 Hidden Features with Taku & Kristian

Another test from Matt Granger - Z9 with adapted F lenses (part 1). I guess part 2 will follow soon...

 

[fcotterill]

According to experience using the pre production camera, the EVF is the best yet; most DSLR-like mirrorless camera to date; waiting for the photographer to catch up.

High compliments given that this is Dpr 'the Z9 is Nikon's best camera yet (of any type)...'

Shooting experience: The Nikon Z9 is the most DSLR-like mirrorless we've ever seen

The Nikon Z9 offers the kind of features that only a mirrorless camera could provide, yet it's among the most DSLR-like of its peers. In this article, DPReview Reviews Editor Carey Rose explains what this means (and why it's a good thing).

www.dpreview.com

 

[thelordofthelight]

Wow...what I thought was Z9's weakest link after going thru the initial specs last week happens to be a ground breaking tech...So the Z9 EVF seems to offer the best viewing experience coupled with best efficiency in terms of battery drain...

Day 5
I went for a drive in the desert and didn't find much of anything to photograph but l did learn something.

When switching over to silent mode, it's important to pay attention to the camera. If you set it down while it's still on, forgetting it's in silent mode, and you lay your arm across the camera, you can fill up a 160gb card in no time. I shot 13 images and my fat arm shot 2600 of the inside of my truck. LOL Silent mode will be turned on only when the situation requires it ... lesson learned

Hatch

According to experience using the pre production camera, the EVF is the best yet; most DSLR-like mirrorless camera to date; waiting for the photographer to catch up.

High compliments given that this is Dpr 'the Z9 is Nikon's best camera yet (of any type)...'

Shooting experience: The Nikon Z9 is the most DSLR-like mirrorless we've ever seen

The Nikon Z9 offers the kind of features that only a mirrorless camera could provide, yet it's among the most DSLR-like of its peers. In this article, DPReview Reviews Editor Carey Rose explains what this means (and why it's a good thing).

www.dpreview.com

 

[Hatch1921]

Wow...what I thought was Z9's weakest link after going thru the initial specs last week happens to be a ground breaking tech...So the Z9 EVF seems to offer the best viewing experience coupled with best efficiency in terms of battery drain...

The DP Review post about the EVF...very encouraging. The A1 EVF is very nice but I don't get the OVF feel from it. It's only been a week of testing, maybe I'll adjust more as I use it. It's great to hear the Z9 is like using an OVF.

 

[Hatch1921]

Removed a duplicate post.

 

[John Navitsky]

the EVF is an interesting topic and it looks like Sony and Nikon had very different approaches there as well. it seems like both are dealing with a bandwidth budget for the EVF and Sony decided to let you choose how you use that bandwidth, but.... there might be side effects. Where Nikon just said we're going to just give you that 60 refreshes and the lower resolution but on the other hand, it's never going to be interrupted for any reason or influenced by anything. basically it's always going to just keep truckin. it's funny that until seeing how Nikon approached these things, we didn't really think about how Sony approached them

 

[fcotterill]

Wow...what I thought was Z9's weakest link after going thru the initial specs last week happens to be a ground breaking tech...So the Z9 EVF seems to offer the best viewing experience coupled with best efficiency in terms of battery drain...

Yes , Z9 is looking better and better....

[edit updated times in this video ]And the Nikon Canada scrutiny of a baker's dozen among the many settings in the Z9 menu shows how to set the shutter sound. It does indeed sound wise to toggle Silent On/Off - 6:00. The new Menu also features a simpler Toggle of On/Off for some settings - 2:00 This is a tiny yet big First for the Nikon menu design!

and also what looks, at first sighting, a better Focus Lock now in software that can be toggled On/Off 21:40

NikonTV | Z 9 Hidden Features with Taku & Kristian

 

[Mommacat]

Wow...what I thought was Z9's weakest link after going thru the initial specs last week happens to be a ground breaking tech...So the Z9 EVF seems to offer the best viewing experience coupled with best efficiency in terms of battery drain...

Wow! This is fantastic news!!! Thank you for sharing, fcotterill! I so can't wait to get my copy!

 

[lwan]

Anybody knows how long did it take Nikon so far between revealing a lens in the roadmap and actually releasing it?

 

[DavidT]

I think you misunderstood what he meant. The problem to solve was how to accomplish handling high FPS. The A1 has a larger buffer to compensate for a slower media and Nikon went with a smaller buffer because of the faster media. If you put slow media in the Z9, you hit the buffer quickly but with the fastest media, you get to shoot many more shots potentially without hitting a buffer limit. The A1 is going to have a larger buffer, but once you hit it, it will be slower to clear and will theoretically always remain about the same size. The choice of backward compatibility may or may not have been a factor in why they made the choice they did.

Yup. The irony for me is when I went to the a1 I was annoyed I had to buy new cards that aren't cheap but even if I had stayed with Nikon I would have had to upgrade all my cards anyway to not be stuck with a small buffer. Reality is you are going to pay one way or another to have the most recent/best tech. There is no free lunch.

 

[la551ve3]

So, pre-orders supposedly start shipping mid-end of December. At one point in the (not so?) near future could we expect to see the camera actually available for sale in the stores?

 

[abc123brian]

Yup. The irony for me is when I went to the a1 I was annoyed I had to buy new cards that aren't cheap but even if I had stayed with Nikon I would have had to upgrade all my cards anyway to not be stuck with a small buffer. Reality is you are going to pay one way or another to have the most recent/best tech. There is no free lunch.

The unfortunate truth. There always seems to be something additional that needs upgrading. I only bought two extra XQD cards because of the CFExpress change. I’m glad I waited on buying CFE cards because the recent tests highlighted what cards perform well. It seems many cards perform no where near the ’maximum’ speed advertised.

 

[John Navitsky]

Yup. The irony for me is when I went to the a1 I was annoyed I had to buy new cards that aren't cheap but even if I had stayed with Nikon I would have had to upgrade all my cards anyway to not be stuck with a small buffer. Reality is you are going to pay one way or another to have the most recent/best tech. There is no free lunch.

Yep. I moved to XQD as early as possible and then moved to CFE-b as soon as possible and yet I'm still going to have to replace my slower CFE-b cards with faster CFE-b cards, lol. I guess the upside is things (generally) keep getting better.

It does tell me though to get enough fast cards for my immediate needs instead of getting extras because it sounds like even faster cards are coming out and I'll want some of those.