Aformentioned heron - z9+ftz-ii+1.4e+600mm f4g:
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Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Steve
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fcotterill
Well-known member
Cut that off early. This chap has a lot to learn about basic photography let alone Nikon AF. And why go public with one's confusions?
I cut off early as well. Don't understand the value of such videos when he starts off with something like, "I have only had the camera for 3 weeks and dont know what I am really doing but I am going to give you my initial opinion" That was enough for me.
arbitrage
Well-known member
I see your point. But Ray has been a long, long time Nikon shooter and his portfolio is probably the most artistic bird photography out there as he is one of the only people that I know of that can produce stunning small in the frame bird photographs. Have a look through his portfolio http://rayhennessy.com/portfolio and then come back and tell me he has a lot to learn about basic photography.
If you don't cut the video off early you will see a lot of valuable EVF footage that show the Z9's AF behaviour in some challenging situations. I think this EVF footage is some of the more valuable I've seen out there as he isn't cherry picking clean bird, clean background (which the Z9 excels at) and is actually showing where the Z9 has trouble.
FB101
Well-known member
You are kidding right? Have you looked at what he does with a z6ii?
‘I do agree that this video seems premature but nobody can question Ray‘s results and hands on knowledge of Nikon. But I am not completely surprised at his initial reaction - for his style, the Z9 may not be as much of a step up.
FB101
Well-known member
I can see how it came across that way but if you look into Ray‘s work you’ll see that he is very subdued, understated yet an absolute master of his art. His 3 weeks represent far more insights than the YouTube‘s talking heads 3 months.
Maljo
Well-known member
I am concerned about the Z9’s struggles. I was expecting the Z9 to eclipse Sony and Canon.
Hennessey, Hogan, Mark Smith and Jan Weber all find the Z9 to be a very good camera but with birds not quite as good as the competition. Mine is still on order…
Hennessey, Hogan, Mark Smith and Jan Weber all find the Z9 to be a very good camera but with birds not quite as good as the competition. Mine is still on order…
John Navitsky
Well-known member
In some ways each of these eclipses the others.
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fcotterill
Well-known member
While I respect the opinions of you and others who follow his work, he did himself no favours in this video. If he had experience with a Z6, I would expect the Z9 path to be faster. And equally coming from a top tier Nikon DSLR (D500, D850, D5, especially D6)
John Navitsky
Well-known member
news at 11
arbitrage
Well-known member
Yeah it would be nice but he has sort of relegated the camera to single point mode which unlike Sony A1/A7IV (and presumably all future bodies) and unlike Canon R3, can't have BEAF active in Single point mode.
I really think he needs to delve into Wide Area a bit more. Maybe Wide Area S for his use case.
I also think he may actually be much happier spending his $5500 on a used $4500 D6. He is coming from D4S and Z6II so I think a D6 might blow him away for his style of work. Of course he won't have BEAF or full frame AF coverage both of which (especially full frame AF coverage) could be a big benefit for his style of small in the frame bird photography.
StefanSC
Well-known member
One's ability to understand and explain how a camera works or to appreciate a camera's performance can have little impact on the quality of one's photography.
I've done the following experiment quite a number of times: set up my camera in a fool-proof way and give it to somebody who had no experience using a "serious" camera but had experience in the visual domain (visual artists, painters, once even to a photo editor of a news agency). Each and every time the person came out with images that were good or even great. They may have had slight technical issues but the images themselves were solid visually.
On the opposite side, I've written my own RAW demosaicing algortithm, I've implemented subject detection for various imagining devices and my master's degree was about identifying unique cameras based on sensor imperfections. And my images still suck...
On the other hand, i haven't heard of Ray Hennessy until today and had the chance to look at his portfolio. He's good, he's not that great. He has some interesting ideas regarding minimalism in his images and a very good understanding on light qualities, but he relies too much on lens defects (flare, reflections and strange bokeh...something picked up probably from the macro crowd and their obsession with Meyer Optik lenses) and some of the shots are "by the numbers". Above average shooter, worth it to spend some time looking at his portfolio.
But c'mon, 80% what he shoots doesn't need anything more than single point S-AF...
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StefanSC
Well-known member
I don't think they are talking down. It's not like he's on this forum and they are responding to him... And often "no experience" beats "bad experience"
. More like expressing a reaction that can be justified. In the beginning of clip, when he talks about the jumping image in the viewfinder, in the first instance I saw it I went: VR centering... The "don't know, don't care" attitude he displays about it is not something that makes people listen to what you have to say...
I want to preface what I’m gonna say by saying I’m no expert on the Z9. What I can tell you is in the few weeks I’ve had it, I have shot probably 100 hours plus with it in various conditions. I’ve been very methodical with setting it up and testing its limitations in various situations. I am extremely familiar with the Z system and I’ve had the cameras since they were released in 2018. The camera is leaps and bounds better than the former Z cameras and that is a fact. I can also tell you the camera does need some firmware tweaking to live up to it’s potential or at least what it was sold as. The Camera‘s auto focus is not perfect and having the Sony A1 for a few weeks, neither is it. I have found both of them will occasionally lose focus when a flying bird leaves clear sky and enters an area with a background. They Nikon Z9 does it more often. The Sony A1 is definitely better on small fast moving birds but both cameras do struggle occasionally when there’s a busy background. I owned the D850 for a few years and I can definitely say without a doubt this camera tracks/focuses better than the D850 or D500. I can also say the auto focus is substantially better with native lenses such as the 70/200 2.8. The video capabilities of this camera are phenomenal and I don’t think anyone can deny that. I think with one or two firmware tweaks this camera will be on par with any camera out there but the sony A1 definitely provides more customization. I personally don’t think you could go wrong with Sony, Nikon or canon at this point. The biggest drawback to the Z9 in my opinion is the size and weight, which I am not very fond of. I am getting used to the size and all in all it’s pretty comfortable.
I think Ray Hennessy has a “style” which you either like or don’t. I happen to like it.
Those small songbirds flitting around in fairly dense foliage were (in my opinion) a bit of an AF torture test and the Z9 certainly struggled.
I have not had my Z9 long enough to see how it works for me. During a recent trip to Costa Rica my D850 had some of the same issues Ray experienced where the camera would loose focus in a dark busy scene and struggle to refocus on anything. I would have to find a high contrast edge to get the camera to reacquire focus. I hadn’t noticed this before but the camera was traded in on the Z9 so it’s a moot point.
I haven’t had the same issue on the Z9 but it’s very early days for me.
Those small songbirds flitting around in fairly dense foliage were (in my opinion) a bit of an AF torture test and the Z9 certainly struggled.
I have not had my Z9 long enough to see how it works for me. During a recent trip to Costa Rica my D850 had some of the same issues Ray experienced where the camera would loose focus in a dark busy scene and struggle to refocus on anything. I would have to find a high contrast edge to get the camera to reacquire focus. I hadn’t noticed this before but the camera was traded in on the Z9 so it’s a moot point.
I haven’t had the same issue on the Z9 but it’s very early days for me.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
i'm curious why nobody has tried to quantify the impact of running an external recorder for evf recording.
it was reported that it impacted buffer performance, so i'm not sure why nobody has tried to see if/what/how much it impacts other things.
seems like an odd issue, and personally i was really looking forward to using the evf recording for learning what works and what doesn't in a concrete way.
since i shoot action primarily, that could really be a crimp in my style if it impacts af performance.
also, lots of people "reviewing" the camera are using evf recorders...
[edit: i have a hypothesis that you could test using a video clip to be repeatable]
it was reported that it impacted buffer performance, so i'm not sure why nobody has tried to see if/what/how much it impacts other things.
seems like an odd issue, and personally i was really looking forward to using the evf recording for learning what works and what doesn't in a concrete way.
since i shoot action primarily, that could really be a crimp in my style if it impacts af performance.
also, lots of people "reviewing" the camera are using evf recorders...
[edit: i have a hypothesis that you could test using a video clip to be repeatable]
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I wish I could talk personally to Nikon, canon or Sony and give them advice. I would tell them all to perfect the equipment they have out there now. I think all of these companies at least for the short term should quit trying to push products onto the market and perfect the ones they have out already. I’m pretty certain that would increase sales as well for items that are available. There’s clearly going to be a component shortage for a while and that goes for all companies. I think all three companies could easily improve their cameras and lenses if they would concentrate more effort on firmware. It’s like the generation to Nikon Z bodies, still haven’t had a substantial firmware update. Take Sony for instance, with the EVF blackout problem which took them 8 to 10 months to correct. I think all of them are too concerned with cramming products onto the market instead of fixing the issues with the ones that are available. This is just my rant and for disclaimer, I am no business expert LOL.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
your assessment of it being a priority thing might be right, but a lot of development organizations are just slow. it really depends on their processes
I realize Fujifilm cameras don’t get discussed on here very much but I will say they are probably one of the best if not the best with continuing updating their cameras.
I don't play a piano either but if I go to hear a world class pianist and (s)he tells me, "Not sure how to play this entire piece yet. I have only practice it for 3 weeks." I'll leave
The great majority of us are at the same level of proficiency as these YouTube reviewers. Hell, many of us are much further along than most of them. I don't understand why we care to watch these videos anyway.
I actually asked when out shooting birds in a park if I could photograph a dog catching a frisbee to test the Z9 AF. Hilariously (I thought) I was told no! LOL Still going to ask the next owner of an acrobatic dog I come across
abc123brian
Well-known member
I'm not sure that is exactly the same thing
John Navitsky
Well-known member
I actually asked when out shooting birds in a park if I could photograph a dog catching a frisbee to test the Z9 AF. Hilariously (I thought) I was told no! LOL Still going to ask the next owner of an acrobatic dog I come across
well, if you're near the seattle area, you can come out and i'll get you all the disc catching dogs you want
with luck i might be able to try some dogs around the 27th with my z9.(nps told me they shipped my camera to my store a bit ago and our next disc dog is on the 27th)
edit: i think some folks just don't want people they don't know to photograph them
I agree his photos are really very good, love the compositions!
I also agree the video was bad. I don't think he had enough time with the Z9 to put out a review and should have waited a couple more weeks when he understood it more. Maybe he will try that video again and do better next time!