Organised Photo Tours - has the market peaked?

[pomkiwi]

I've taken some organised wildlife photo tours in the past and have one booked for this year. My question relates to a significant number of e-mails I've received recently offereing last minute places at discounts on a large number of tours, some from very well known operators. I wonder if the market has peaked - there seem to be a lot of operators including an increasing number of local businesses and prices seem to have increased a lot recently.

 

[NorthernFocus]

I suppose it depends on how you define "peaked"(i.e. peak pricing, number of suppliers, attendance...?). What you're describing seems to indicate supply now exceeds demand. Whether it's transient or a trend only time will tell. If a trend then some form of market adjustment will occur.

 

[MrFotoFool]

Price is the main factor that has kept me from ever taking a photo tour. I am not on any operator email lists, so I have not observed the last minute discounts you are describing. But my hope is that if this trend continues there will be a lowering of price so those of us who are not rich can afford to go.

 

[wotan1]

My general observation is that travel and entertainment has gotten expensive. I think people are charging more to make up for COVID losses.

It would be natural for demand to slow.

 

[Butlerkid]

Really? I can't find a photo tour that isn't sold out for this year AND 2025!

 

[tclune]

The late vacancies may indicate cancellations. My sense is that travelers are more aware of health and safety alerts for destinations than they used to be and may bail out if the destination has a health or safety warning as the trip approaches.

 

[Butlerkid]

The late vacancies may indicate cancellations. My sense is that travelers are more aware of health and safety alerts for destinations than they used to be and may bail out if the destination has a health or safety warning as the trip approaches.

True....but many tours have a sizeable non-refundable deposit to discourage bailing out.

 

[JAJohnson]

I've taken some organised wildlife photo tours in the past and have one booked for this year. My question relates to a significant number of e-mails I've received recently offereing last minute places at discounts on a large number of tours, some from very well known operators. I wonder if the market has peaked - there seem to be a lot of operators including an increasing number of local businesses and prices seem to have increased a lot recently.

Classic macroeconomics scenario: Increased prices and a growing number of providers indicates that demand exceeds supply. That’s not the sign of a market peak. Once supply exceeds demand, prices fall and the number of providers gets smaller. That’s when you’ll know the market has peaked.

 

[Abinoone]

To be completely honest, I don’t have any idea if or why the market for photo tours has changed, but I do know that I rarely if ever enroll in one. Why? Mainly because I find the attractive ones quite expensive, and because generally I’ve found that going it alone most often gives me more of what I enjoy. The possible exception would be taking one of Steve’s trips (like his recently announced one to Africa), but I’m still waiting for him to grant me an award for being a loyal BCG member! Poverty has its limitations.

 

[Viathelens]

I go on a lot of these types of tours with different tour providers. I don't think demand has peaked at all. It is normal that people cancel tours for various reasons, sometimes at the last moment and then tour operators want to fill that space quickly so they offer a discount. Sometimes the more expensive tours will not fill and toward the start of the tour the operator will offer a discount. I think the tour operators vary so much in what they offer and how much it cost and where they go that it is difficult to offer generalized comments. Sometimes tours don't fill for an operator because the gossip pipeline tells a negative story about that operator. It's a small world in photography to some degree and we all "talk" on forums and on tours and that weeds out some not so positive operators over time. The people with a good reputation have no problem filling their spaces for tours. Many tours are sold out a year or more in advance. Sometimes certain destinations become popular and then everyone signs up for those destinations and those tours get booked up quickly, people do seem inclined to "follow the leader" so to speak. I'm now looking for destinations where fewer people want to take photographs! Last year I got a discount on two trips because there was still a space open at the last moment and now I know that these discounts are available so that can lower the cost of the tour and I'll keep that in mind when I sign up.

 

[ricardo00]

I've taken some organised wildlife photo tours in the past and have one booked for this year. My question relates to a significant number of e-mails I've received recently offereing last minute places at discounts on a large number of tours, some from very well known operators. I wonder if the market has peaked - there seem to be a lot of operators including an increasing number of local businesses and prices seem to have increased a lot recently.

Personally I think it is due to the aging of the population going on these trips (as someone who has been doing them for the past 10 years). My chance of a last minute cancellation due to some health reason has dramatically increased!

 

[Steve]

I can tell you that the cost to run a tour has gone up drastically over the last few years. However, we're having no problem booking them. I could probably live in Africa for 6 months and still have a backlog.

Hmm... I could probably live in Africa for 6 months!!

 

[DavidT]

I find more influencers doing it as a way to increase and diversify their income.

Take the OG pros who have been doing it longer than YouTube has been around and they are not only expensive but sold out.

There are more people offering them but the ones I’d trust for the amount it cost is still very limited.

 

[Butlerkid]

Folks just really need to do their research on tour leaders before signing up. There are very few tour leaders that I would sign up without hesitation. Steve Perry being #1! LOL! Another one, a Canon Explorer of Light friend of mine, is talking about hanging it up next year.

My experience with "influencers" leading a trip have not been positive. And a great photographer does not make a great tour leader - or even teacher. I follow some well known photographers with proven records of delivering superb, well organized tours.

And I see a LOT of tours by "unknown" photographers. I get the sense they are just starting out and don't really know "what they don't know" yet. Often I look at their images and am under-whelmed. I do NOT recommend you sign up with someone's first few tour offerings. I did that with a very well known photographer, and the tour was very poor. He just hadn't learned how to lead a tour - AND - he spent most of the time getting his own shots!

 

[Viathelens]

Folks just really need to do their research on tour leaders before signing up. There are very few tour leaders that I would sign up without hesitation. Steve Perry being #1! LOL! Another one, a Canon Explorer of Light friend of mine, is talking about hanging it up next year.

My experience with "influencers" leading a trip have not been positive. And a great photographer does not make a great tour leader - or even teacher. I follow some well known photographers with proven records of delivering a superb, well organized tour.

And I see a LOT of tours by "unknown" photographers. I get the sense they are just starting out and don't really know "what they don't know" yet. Often I look at their images and am under-whelmed. I do NOT recommend you sign up with someone's first few tour offerings. I did that with a very well known photographer, and the tour was very poor. He just hadn't learned how to lead a tour - AND - he spent most of the time getting his own shots!

Karen, on the tour leader spending their time getting their own shots...this does seem to be a problem with some tour leaders. I recently was on a tour to the Antarctic with a well-known group who advertised that their leaders spend their time with the people who sign up, not getting their own shots and that proved to be very untrue. The leaders were the first ones on a boat to the islands to get their shots and spent their time on the islands getting their shots, offering very little to the people who had signed up. In fact, this group turned out to be the worst of the bunch that I have traveled with who did this. On my feedback form I noted this to the company and never heard a word back from them. It is good to do the required research prior to signing up.

 

[Anjin San]

Folks just really need to do their research on tour leaders before signing up. There are very few tour leaders that I would sign up without hesitation. Steve Perry being #1! LOL! Another one, a Canon Explorer of Light friend of mine, is talking about hanging it up next year.

My experience with "influencers" leading a trip have not been positive. And a great photographer does not make a great tour leader - or even teacher. I follow some well known photographers with proven records of delivering a superb, well organized tours.

And I see a LOT of tours by "unknown" photographers. I get the sense they are just starting out and don't really know "what they don't know" yet. Often I look at their images and am under-whelmed. I do NOT recommend you sign up with someone's first few tour offerings. I did that with a very well known photographer, and the tour was very poor. He just hadn't learned how to lead a tour - AND - he spent most of the time getting his own shots!

I agree…I’m doing 3 this year and never did one before…and all 3 were picked because it’s someplace I want to go…and because I want to go with that person…and a little bit because I’m spending some of our kid’s inheritance. Pick your tour by the leader…needs to be someone you trust enough to be comfortable with.

 

[GrandNagus50]

There are some very good photo tour leaders (my opinion) whose trips do not fill up, and some I haven't heard of (of course, they may be great) whose trips are booked solid through 2025. Some of the difference lies in that mystery of mysteries, "marketing," plus the sometimes curious phenomenon of people getting attached to a particular leader and then going with that person over and over. On some of the trips I have gone on I am the only one who has not traveled with the leader at least once previously. I guess I tend to pick mainly on the basis of destination and scheduling (and to a lesser extent, cost), so I have little "brand loyalty," except to the guy who I think is the Dean of photo workshop leaders, Glenn Bartley. I know Steve is also excellent, and someday I would love to travel with him, but I have not so far.

Leaders can lose my loyalty by 1) showing unethical behavior in the field (based on my own values, of course; and 2) prioritizing getting his/her own photos over maximizing the experience for the paying clients. In a few cases a leader has kind of annoyed me because his own sense of what makes a "great" wildlife photo is different from mine. My son and I still joke about one leader's repeated exhortations to "Take the photo, they're fighting!" Birds or animals fighting (or taking down prey) are NOT my priorities.

In a few cases I have signed up for a workshop mainly because the price was so reasonable. Bargain hunting! I will not name names here, but in one instance this was almost a case of penny wise, pound foolish, as the leader was tolerable at best. Even so, I got to go to some terrific spots and I came home with great photos.

Doug Greenberg

 

[Viathelens]

There are some very good photo tour leaders (my opinion) whose trips do not fill up, and some I haven't heard of (of course, they may be great) whose trips are booked solid through 2025. Some of the difference lies in that mystery of mysteries, "marketing," plus the sometimes curious phenomenon of people getting attached to a particular leader and then going with that person over and over. On some of the trips I have gone on I am the only one who has not traveled with the leader at least once previously. I guess I tend to pick mainly on the basis of destination and scheduling (and to a lesser extent, cost), so I have little "brand loyalty," except to the guy who I think is the Dean of photo workshop leaders, Glenn Bartley. I know Steve is also excellent, and someday I would love to travel with him, but I have not so far.

Leaders can lose my loyalty by 1) showing unethical behavior in the field (based on my own values, of course; and 2) prioritizing getting his/her own photos over maximizing the experience for the paying clients. In a few cases a leader has kind of annoyed me because his own sense of what makes a "great" wildlife photo is different from mine. My son and I still joke about one leader's repeated exhortations to "Take the photo, they're fighting!" Birds or animals fighting (or taking down prey) are NOT my priorities.

In a few cases I have signed up for a workshop mainly because the price was so reasonable. Bargain hunting! I will not name names here, but in one instance this was almost a case of penny wise, pound foolish, as the leader was tolerable at best. Even so, I got to go to some terrific spots and I came home with great photos.

Doug Greenberg

My feeling on the many tour guided photo groups/workshops (I've been on around 30 of them) I have been on is that if I get good shots I"m happy, in spite of whatever else happens! There is one person I go with that I really don't like very well at all but he knows where to go and he is a great spotter so I continue to go with him. You got your shots, that's what counts in the end!

 

[Winston Churchill (Sir)]

Poverty has its limitations.

Aint that the truth

I think many of us have spent quite a little fortune on gear this past 2 years - and that eats into disposable income too

I would love to do tours - lots of them - but I dont like shooting in a group. So private guided tours don't happen too often

I like to also travel on my own - or with MAYBE one person

 

[Abinoone]

My feeling on the many tour guided photo groups/workshops (I've been on around 30 of them) I have been on is that if I get good shots I"m happy, in spite of whatever else happens! There is one person I go with that I really don't like very well at all but he knows where to go and he is a great spotter so I continue to go with him. You got your shots, that's what counts in the end!

You shouldn’t talk about your spouse that way!

 

[Abinoone]

Personally I think it is due to the aging of the population going on these trips (as someone who has been doing them for the past 10 years). My chance of a last minute cancellation due to some health reason has dramatically increased!

But where’s the senior citizen discounts?!

 

[Viathelens]

But where’s the senior citizen discounts?!

Probably the majority of people on these photo tours are senior citizens as they have the money and time to travel. They'd go broke giving a senior citizen discount! But you might get a discount if the trip is near and it is not full. Be sure to ask about this. I just realized this last year when I took two different trips and was able to get a discount on both because they were not full. Always ask the question.

 

[Abinoone]

Just one more comment on this thread: I’ve taken my share of tours and workshops over the years, but no longer do them very often. If I’m going to a completely new area where I’ve never been, I’ll sometimes try to find a tour to hook onto, then return another time on my own. I do like to travel with another compatible person or two, but since I live alone now it’s often difficult to arrange. Generally speaking, I find many tours to be very expensive, but then I find almost everything these days to be expensive! I’m afraid that I’ve turned into one of those geezers standing in the cereal aisle shouting “can you believe a box of cereal is $6.00!!”. I notice mothers with small toddlers moving away from me.

 

[Activert]

I think wildlife photography tours are more in demand than let say landscape tours. Some photographers that are not known to be wildlife photographers are starting to announce tours to some countries for landscape with a great emphasis on wildlife ( I am not talking here about environnemental photos for wildlife). Matt Granger who I believe is more of people portrait photographer and far from being considered as wildlife or bird photographer, started to announce tours to Island for landscape and wildlife. I was surprised to hear about his tour specially he only take bird photography in zoos or birds in cages for sale on the street to review some lenses. I don’t know how he can guide a wildlife photography tour. To be honest, his birds photos are really less than ordinary. Some other different kind of photographers are doing the same.
Yes they are really excellent tour operator wildlife photographers like Steve. His work can tell a lot about how good and professional he is. I think if someone want to book a tour, it is better to do it with a wildlife photographer for wildlife or landscape photographer for landscape after learning about their work and pay the price for what it offers. If the price is too high for some, then, it is better to organize a trip alone or team with friend photographers.

 

[Activert]

I can tell you that the cost to run a tour has gone up drastically over the last few years. However, we're having no problem booking them. I could probably live in Africa for 6 months and still have a backlog.

Hmm... I could probably live in Africa for 6 months!!

If you do live there can I go with you and work as your assistant for free? Please