FWIW the first post has been updated and rearranged for all the input over the past two days and my purchasing and cancelling both the RVNA and USAA policies due to them being excess, secondary policies.
Photography Equipment Insurance Options (retitled discussion)
- Thread starter Hooligans Imagery
- Start date
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Camatose
Member
Heard from my ins co and this is their response:
I've asked these questions:
Does it mean that this coverage would apply first and not affect my homeowner's policy?
Would a claim cause our other policies premiums to increase?
Does the coverage include accidental damage from drops, etc.?
What are the exclusions?
Can I get a copy of the full policy for review?
What deductible?
I've asked these questions:
Does it mean that this coverage would apply first and not affect my homeowner's policy?
Would a claim cause our other policies premiums to increase?
Does the coverage include accidental damage from drops, etc.?
What are the exclusions?
Can I get a copy of the full policy for review?
What deductible?
Thanks for updating.
I think I said somewhere in this thread or perhaps one of the other insurance threads that it has been my experience insurance companies are really good at writing policies and accepting your money. They are not so good about giving your money back to you if you need to file a claim. Not for photo equipment but for homeowners and auto insurance I've had to do battle a few times in my time on this earth.
Says zero deductible. What carrier is this?
Camatose
Member
Hanover (Citizens). Read it again though.
"However, a deductible, if any, will be subtracted from any payments made under Coverage C"
So, what is Coverage C? My agent didn't provide enough information in that blurb to make any kind of determination. It sounds good so far...
I pulled the plug on NANPA after reading the policy. I have updated the first post as well with my thoughts.
Camatose
Member
In a nutshell: The added insurance voucher for camera gear takes precedence and pays first over the HO, but it may still affect my HO rates in the event of a claim. HO does not insure against accidental damage outside of the home. Current HO insurance is the 'C' in her first email and it protects my camera gear against:
Perils Insured Against (Coverage C – Personal Property):
⊠ Fire or Lightning
⊠ Windstorm or Hail
⊠ Explosion
⊠ Riot or Civil Commotion
⊠ Aircraft
⊠ Vehicles
⊠ Smoke
⊠ Vandalism or Malicious Mischief
⊠ Theft
⊠ Falling Objects
⊠ Weight of Ice, Snow or Sleet
⊠ Accidental Discharge or Overflow of Water or Steam
⊠ Sudden and Accidental Tearing Apart, Cracking, Burning or Bulging
⊠ Freezing
⊠ Sudden and Accidental Damage from Artificially Generated Electrical Current
⊠ Volcanic Eruption
When in the home. So, volcanos are covered, however, nuclear bombs are excluded...
I have yet to look at the PPA again, but will do so soon.
Perils Insured Against (Coverage C – Personal Property):
⊠ Fire or Lightning
⊠ Windstorm or Hail
⊠ Explosion
⊠ Riot or Civil Commotion
⊠ Aircraft
⊠ Vehicles
⊠ Smoke
⊠ Vandalism or Malicious Mischief
⊠ Theft
⊠ Falling Objects
⊠ Weight of Ice, Snow or Sleet
⊠ Accidental Discharge or Overflow of Water or Steam
⊠ Sudden and Accidental Tearing Apart, Cracking, Burning or Bulging
⊠ Freezing
⊠ Sudden and Accidental Damage from Artificially Generated Electrical Current
⊠ Volcanic Eruption
When in the home. So, volcanos are covered, however, nuclear bombs are excluded...
I have yet to look at the PPA again, but will do so soon.
In a nutshell: The added insurance voucher for camera gear takes precedence and pays first over the HO, but it may still affect my HO rates in the event of a claim. HO does not insure against accidental damage outside of the home. Current HO insurance is the 'C' in her first email and it protects my camera gear against:
Perils Insured Against (Coverage C – Personal Property):
⊠ Fire or Lightning
⊠ Windstorm or Hail
⊠ Explosion
⊠ Riot or Civil Commotion
⊠ Aircraft
⊠ Vehicles
⊠ Smoke
⊠ Vandalism or Malicious Mischief
⊠ Theft
⊠ Falling Objects
⊠ Weight of Ice, Snow or Sleet
⊠ Accidental Discharge or Overflow of Water or Steam
⊠ Sudden and Accidental Tearing Apart, Cracking, Burning or Bulging
⊠ Freezing
⊠ Sudden and Accidental Damage from Artificially Generated Electrical Current
⊠ Volcanic Eruption
When in the home. So, volcanos are covered, however, nuclear bombs are excluded...
I have yet to look at the PPA again, but will do so soon.
PPA is secondary unless you get the more expensive option called PLUS Look at NANPA.
I finally had the time to really sort out and label the first post as a reference and to indicate how I thought it applied depending on if one made revenue from images or not.
Further, I think many people have not focused on those policies which are "secondary" or "excess" which includes the Basic policy from PPA and some of the standalone Personal Property policies.
If you want to get a clear recap, please revisit the first post.
Further, I think many people have not focused on those policies which are "secondary" or "excess" which includes the Basic policy from PPA and some of the standalone Personal Property policies.
If you want to get a clear recap, please revisit the first post.
Camatose
Member
Do you have a copy of their policy? I can't find one on the site.
Yes I have PPA, NANPA, USAA and RNVA if anyone wants them send me your email.
Camatose
Member
In reviewing both PPA policies, they read almost the same with respect to excess amount, insurance under more than one company:
So here in the US, if you have a camera voucher or rider on your HO policy, the PPA would be the excess with HO being the primary, however, and this is an essential point:
If you don't have special coverage with your HO, then there would be no other insurance in the event of a claim off of your property. There would also be no other insurance if operating professionally. In both cases the PPA would be the primary and there would be no claim against your HO policy.
If something were to happen on your property, such as a catastrophic claim or a robbery, then your claim would likely be on well more than just the camera gear, so involving your HO ins. co. would be compulsory anyway, so it really wouldn't matter.
So here in the US, if you have a camera voucher or rider on your HO policy, the PPA would be the excess with HO being the primary, however, and this is an essential point:
If you don't have special coverage with your HO, then there would be no other insurance in the event of a claim off of your property. There would also be no other insurance if operating professionally. In both cases the PPA would be the primary and there would be no claim against your HO policy.
If something were to happen on your property, such as a catastrophic claim or a robbery, then your claim would likely be on well more than just the camera gear, so involving your HO ins. co. would be compulsory anyway, so it really wouldn't matter.
I am not sure I agree and the problem is there is no straight answer on how the provision works so I went to NANPA which is clearly primary. This gets to the crux of it. Theft from house? Excess or not? My HO covers PP anywhere, so therein lies an issue. Dropped camera - shouldn't be excess. All of these uncertainties made me go for the NANPA which is primary.
Camatose
Member
All said and done I needed something for the upcoming season, but nothing seemed right. Checking with my homeowners wasn't fruitful. I opted for the PPA basic monthly payment so I can have at least some coverage while I continue to investigate. Easy enough to cancel once I decide on something more permanent.
Calson
Well-known member
The alternative is investing in prevention. I do not worry about fire at my house or when traveling. Theft is my primary concern and only for the equipment that I take on my travels.
I invested in a large Pelican Air hard case that is use at hotels and lodges as a large room safe and it holds my extra lenses and laptop computers. The large case is double padlocked and attached with a wire rope cable to a piece of furniture in my room. Theft is still possible but the odds are greatly reduced with no thief able to do a grab and run.
For car travel I use a pickup truck with a 4x6x1.2 foot metal box with two long metal drawers that is in the bed of the truck. With my windows blacked out no one can see inside the back of the truck with its fiberglass camper shell. If someone breaks in to the cab of the truck they still need to get past the inset locks on the metal drawers. I remove what I need for the day and put it in the cab and then this gear is out of sight by the use of a "pet bridge" that attaches to the front and rear seat headrests.
I bought the drawer unit in 2012 for the pickup I owned and now use it in my 2022 pickup. No such option with an SUV unless the cabinet is permanently bolted to the floor and the cabinet would have less than half as much space.
I have spent more than $1500 a year on equipment insurance and my approach now is to invest in security that does not rely on insurance after the fact. If something was stolen during a trip and I lost the use of it the true cost would be a great deal more than the replacement cost for the items stolen.
At home there is the option if one is in a high theft area to put a large and heavy safe in the garage. Oddly enough a used safe is quite inexpensive as they are rated on how many hours they can withstand an attack from a burglar and older safes often have lost their XX hour rating and so cannot be used by jewelers and others and maintain their own theft insurance.
I invested in a large Pelican Air hard case that is use at hotels and lodges as a large room safe and it holds my extra lenses and laptop computers. The large case is double padlocked and attached with a wire rope cable to a piece of furniture in my room. Theft is still possible but the odds are greatly reduced with no thief able to do a grab and run.
For car travel I use a pickup truck with a 4x6x1.2 foot metal box with two long metal drawers that is in the bed of the truck. With my windows blacked out no one can see inside the back of the truck with its fiberglass camper shell. If someone breaks in to the cab of the truck they still need to get past the inset locks on the metal drawers. I remove what I need for the day and put it in the cab and then this gear is out of sight by the use of a "pet bridge" that attaches to the front and rear seat headrests.
I bought the drawer unit in 2012 for the pickup I owned and now use it in my 2022 pickup. No such option with an SUV unless the cabinet is permanently bolted to the floor and the cabinet would have less than half as much space.
I have spent more than $1500 a year on equipment insurance and my approach now is to invest in security that does not rely on insurance after the fact. If something was stolen during a trip and I lost the use of it the true cost would be a great deal more than the replacement cost for the items stolen.
At home there is the option if one is in a high theft area to put a large and heavy safe in the garage. Oddly enough a used safe is quite inexpensive as they are rated on how many hours they can withstand an attack from a burglar and older safes often have lost their XX hour rating and so cannot be used by jewelers and others and maintain their own theft insurance.
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Update
Again the insurance industry is not transparent of straightforward.
I got a call from USAA after sending them a note that their website was misleading. They claim that their policy is primary and this applies only if you make a claim and are paid. I was at the airport when I got the call and couldn’t find the language but I told her I don’t think that is what it says. It could say if you make a claim, but by saving covered, it could mean you are eligible to make a claim as opposed to a claim is allowed.
Again the insurance industry is not transparent of straightforward.
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Camatose
Member
And therein lies the rub. I worry far less about theft than I do damage. I'm not a nature photographer other than the occasional wood walk. The most exotic animal I usually encounter is a whitetail deer. My normal shooting environment could be tough on gear if I'm not paying attention. I sometimes leave things in my truck, but it's pretty safe. Even though damage is always on my mind, theft is unlikely.
Since damage is my main concern and my homeowner's doesn't cover against damage when away from the house, it negates the primary/secondary insurance clause. Whatever specialty insurance I'm carrying would be the primary in that case. In that respect it works for me.
AND THEREIN LIES THE RUB - my career was spent in tax controversy where words mean everything. I don’t trust insurance companies without confirmation of how the policy works. Does your Homeowners really not cover any personal property away from the house. I thought most did. If that is so, then what - USAA language - accidental damage covered because HO doesn’t cover homeowners, but theft? In my case, large deductible on HO. Would USAA cover that? No one would answer these questions for me with any certainty. That was the frustrating part.
Camatose
Member
I spend my career interpreting contracts. Part of that is reviewing insurance certificates for major municipal construction projects and making recommendations to clients.
HO will cover damage away from the home if I add the rider, but that's what we're trying to avoid, yes? If I use my HO carrier (who is also my auto and umbrella carrier) and file a claim, it could cause all of my insurance premiums to increase. Without the rider they won't cover accidental drop and impact damage, which is my biggest concern. Theft from a vehicle, or damage in case of an automobile accident would be covered by auto insurance comprehensive coverage. In that case there would be a primary insurance. For my purposes, which is accidental drops/impact/etc. while using or carrying the equipment at an event, this is my best bet so far. Although as stated, I continue to look around.
I can't speak to what your HO policy covers, only mine.
Edit: This is what is currently covered under my HO.
Perils Insured Against (Coverage C – Personal Property):
⊠ Fire or Lightning
⊠ Windstorm or Hail
⊠ Explosion
⊠ Riot or Civil Commotion
⊠ Aircraft
⊠ Vehicles
⊠ Smoke
⊠ Vandalism or Malicious Mischief
⊠ Theft
⊠ Falling Objects
⊠ Weight of Ice, Snow or Sleet
⊠ Accidental Discharge or Overflow of Water or Steam
⊠ Sudden and Accidental Tearing Apart, Cracking, Burning or Bulging
⊠ Freezing
⊠ Sudden and Accidental Damage from Artificially Generated Electrical Current
⊠ Volcanic Eruption
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