Please stop brand bragging / bashing

[abc123brian]

They are tired of waiting for decent focus. Many many discussions on this forum. How many people keep pinning hopes on a firmware update that doesn't come?

You might be reading something into those many threads that’s not there. AF is fine. Better Implementation of automated tracking is the main ask here. If you haven’t used it in the non Z9 cameras, it requires you activate or deactivate it from auto area mode, and you cannot assign it to a button like on the Z9 or A1. In addition to that, it just doesn’t perform the best. No BEAF. Some of this could be fixed in firmware with existing hardware, others may have to wait. If I put the camera in dynamic af or wide area, it performs pretty decent. Even with the Z9 now, I still want the better implementation added to my Z7ii though it will likely never be used for BIF again.

 

[SandyW]

Steve - Please implement the ability to ignore a thread. I know I can just not read, but I would also like to not be reminded. This thread has turned into a good example of the original topic subject.

 

[bleirer]

Go check the Sony AF thread for examples. Focus areas are discussed and examples given

I agree those are great shots that specifically addressed the question asked by showing examples with both types of af. Perfectly appropriate. Just shows how hard it is to put etiquette into a rule. Sometimes a photo posted has nothing to do with the topic and it comes off as self promotion, other times a photo is the best way to make an on-topic point. I guess that is a judgement call for the poster that is hard to make into a rule.

 

[BLev65]

I wish there was a way to make a thread disappear off the new posts section. A simple follow/unfollow toggle for example. I know you can unwatch, but it still shows in the new posts section, which I think is how most people use the forum. I would like to click don't follow and not see the next 800 replies appear in the feed.

I like talking about anything to do with photography even if it isn't my brand, but I've had enough talk about Z cameras and A cameras for now and would like to select anything with the letter Z or A and hide all. I don't mind if others keep at it, just rather they didn't appear in my feed. But I'd still like to see threads about R cameras of course.

The other thing I'd like if anyone asked me would be to have a forum rule to not post pictures in someone else's thread without asking or being asked, except a screenshot to show the answer to a technical question. I know it's a photography forum, but that is what the presentation forums are for.

The offensive pictures have been removed... I will respect this request.

 

[DavidT]

Honesty, I don't really see that much brand bashing here and if anyone does, I invite you to let me know with the report button.

However, note that there's a difference between saying something like, "Sony Sucks!" to "I prefer the Z9 over the Sony A1 because I think it's more rugged". I think the a statement like the second one is often misconstrued as brand bashing when it's really not - it's simply an option.

I think some of the issue is that when someone expresses an option counter to someone else's, the reader may imply something that's really not there (in the case of the example above, they may feel like the poster is saying the a1 sucks because it's not as rugged as a Z9, even though that was never stated). Also, keep in mind there's no way to have a constructive discussion if preferences are treated like brand attacks.

I couldn’t agree more! I find it funny that I shared my experience and why I switched away from Nikon last year and got bashed. It was my experience and shot Nikon since 1987 but now I’m a fan boy etc of Sony.
To be candid I hadn’t even looked at other brands and I formed opinions of Sony based on BS people have said that was negative yet I had never tried one for myself. I wish I had tried one sooner.

My point is threads where folks ask questions about gear and someone posts an alternate brand that can solve an issue isn’t a bad thing. I wish I had asked and been more open minded rather than just focusing my time in a Nikon only forum. That’s one thing I like about it here is I’m exposed to more brands and discussions than in a brand only forum.

I also think if gear threads went away so would the forum. I’ve posted threads to discuss wing positions etc and not only do they not get near enough discussion going compared to gear but some of the members who will give a lot of good technical information about gear will say they don’t like a wing position and give no more information. It’s funny but pretty obvious what people care about and that’s discussing gear.

I like to read and learn and keep up to date about gear as it’s always evolving but I’m done debating it. I shoot what works for me and most would agree it’s the best so not much more to talk about lol.

 

[bleirer]

The offensive pictures have been removed... I will respect this request.

I wasn't talking about your picture, just commenting in general on something I noticed here. Didn't mean for you to feel singled out.

 

[RikWriter]

Why do people want the ability to ignore a thread or a member? I can ignore and have ignored threads, members and hell, even entire forums if I want, just by...doing it. Why ask the administrator of the board to do more work?

 

[Whiskeyman]

Cool now you can go get it and brag a little, it’s ok

I didn't think of this earlier, but what Brian did shows that we can all brag about what great people we're associated with on this forum and site!

 

[SandyW]

Why do people want the ability to ignore a thread or a member? I can ignore and have ignored threads, members and hell, even entire forums if I want, just by...doing it. Why ask the administrator of the board to do more work?

In the past I would agree with you (although it should be easy to just implement the option in the forum software.) Unfortunately my eyesight has taken a turn for the worse the last few months, and the less new topics I need to parse (headers), the easier it is for me to find what I'm interested in.

 

[vandy]

Quite honestly I struggle with technique (mostly age related) more than worrying over what brand camera I have in my hands. I have been a Nikon user for over 30 years, switched from Canon way back in the film days. Which camera system to buy into is as varied as anything you can come up with from cars to what ever, someone with a bad experience with a particular brand might bash it because of that but I don't really see much of that on this forum either. If I could afford to own the 3 top brands I would, then I could use each to their strengths when in any given circumstance, I would then only have to worry about becoming confused as to how to operate all 3 brands and remembering which one I am working with at the time.

 

[bleirer]

Why do people want the ability to ignore a thread or a member? I can ignore and have ignored threads, members and hell, even entire forums if I want, just by...doing it. Why ask the administrator of the board to do more work?

For example there is one z9 thread must have more than 1000 replies. I was interested the first 999, but now would rather it didn't show up in my new posts feed anymore. I've had enough z9 to last for a while. It seems other forum software has the capability to click and that thread is in the "don't follow" group unless you tell it otherwise. No big deal to just scan past it, really just a convenience. Ignore users is useful, for example somebody was selling crystal meth yesterday, ignore user took it off the list.

 

[gKhan]

I see very little if any of this on this forum, in fact I see people go out of their way to not brand bash. Maybe I'm just not reading the right threads?

I think you are correct but I might not follow this site enough to notice them. Overall, I believe this forum to be very polite and informative. It is heads and shoulders above others.

 

[DaveR]

I use the ignore function to remove posts from some of the more annoying brand warriors. I found there was little of interest in nearly all of the content they post so it was no loss. I'm only really interested in Nikon related topics so all the Sony stuff disappears largely. There are a few Sony shooters whose opinions I respect so don't ignore them, not saying who they are though!

I still think the forum could be improved by dividing it into separate sections based on brand as most other popular forums do. It wouldn't solve the problem altogether as there would still be some that post where they shouldn't but they could be dealt with if there was the will to do so. I think it would make the forum easier to use, easier to find older posts and generally more pleasant.

 

[Annamaria]

I go out of my way to find a YouTube with this vs. that. Sometimes a video doesn’t come across as mean spirited as verbiage?

 

[Darrellhar]

I use the ignore function to remove posts from some of the more annoying brand warriors. I found there was little of interest in nearly all of the content they post so it was no loss.

Where is the ignore function? I think using it would make my time here more enjoyable.

 

[Darrellhar]

You want the forum to fit your Nikon only world, no that’s not annoying brand loyalty or anything….lol.

I think there is a difference between discussing a brand with others that also shoot it and jumping in and telling the entire form why you left X brand. One is productive and one is not. I never understood why if you shoot X brand why you would go to post clearly about Y brand and start talking about X brand. I’m assuming that’s the annoying brand warriors that he is referring to.

 

[bsinc1962]

The whole thing takes me back to my race engine building days. Chevy, Ford, Mopar has become Canon, Sony, Nikon. It's all good, the competition raises the bar and we all benefit.

 

[FB101]

I think there is a difference between discussing a brand with others that also shoot it and jumping in and telling the entire form why you left X brand. One is productive and one is not. I never understood why if you shoot X brand why you would go to post clearly about Y brand and start talking about X brand. I’m assuming that’s the annoying brand warriors that he is referring to.

The problem with that approach is that it creates echo chambers - the kind of echo chambers we had here for a while where people would tell you with a straight face that the AF in the Z6ii and Z7ii matched sony and canon for tracking fast birds when those of us who tried all of those cameras (including Steve) could affirm categorically it wasn't the case.

It's also the kind of echo chambers where folks don't want to hear why a loyal N-brand shooter of a decade decided to move to S-brand - which doesn't mean their reasons apply to all or even anybody else but don't you think folks might want to see if maybe their experience is relevant?

I can honestly say Hut and I did not see eye to eye on a number of topics when we first started chatting but his description of his journey from Nikon to Sony hit every thing I was feeling and wanted to change. I am glad I did not lock myself in the comfortable Nikon echo chamber as he helped me find the right solution for what I needed, got to know him better in the process and realized we actually shared far more in our approach to photography than had differences.

Broadening one horizon and allowing others to challenge our preconceptions might feel uncomfortable or even dangerous at times but it's amazing what one can get from it - and honestly there aren't many topics with lower stakes than camera brands to give it a try ;-)

 

[RugglesZ9]

If I want the latest complaints about camera brands, I have Facebook and DPReview forums to fall back on. I sure don't need to hear them on this site too. Same for advice on whether the Nikon 200-600mm is a good enough lens for whatever, and whether I should buy a different brand or wait, when no one outside Nikon has a clue. We aren't hearing choices between a Nikon 43-86 and a current 24-70: If you pay a reasonable price, most of the advanced cameras and lenses today from the 3 mqjor brand are beyond my capabilities and needs anyway. [Hint: Don't buy the former]

Next December go to London and visit the British Museum's Wildlife Photographer of the Year exhibition: Walk through and count the award winners looking for those who used a z9, R3, or whatever the hot Sony is [Sorry, I don't pay attention to its products]. You will be surprised at how few were taken with the models people are now arguing about on various forums - I did that with my hot, new D2x many years ago - I was really depressed that brand and model seemed to have so little effect on the quality of images. Imagine anyone winning an international contest using a D2H or a D100.

 

[abc123brian]

For example there is one z9 thread must have more than 1000 replies. I was interested the first 999, but now would rather it didn't show up in my new posts feed anymore. I've had enough z9 to last for a while. It seems other forum software has the capability to click and that thread is in the "don't follow" group unless you tell it otherwise. No big deal to just scan past it, really just a convenience. Ignore users is useful, for example somebody was selling crystal meth yesterday, ignore user took it off the list.

If you are referring to getting notifications, you can “unwatch“ the tread. Not sure if that is what you’re referring to.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[abc123brian]

The problem with that approach is that it creates echo chambers - the kind of echo chambers we had here for a while where people would tell you with a straight face that the AF in the Z6ii and Z7ii matched sony and canon for tracking fast birds when those of us who tried all of those cameras (including Steve) could affirm categorically it wasn't the case.

It's also the kind of echo chambers where folks don't want to hear why a loyal N-brand shooter of a decade decided to move to S-brand - which doesn't mean their reasons apply to all or even anybody else but don't you think folks might want to see if maybe their experience is relevant?

I can honestly say Hut and I did not see eye to eye on a number of topics when we first started chatting but his description of his journey from Nikon to Sony hit every thing I was feeling and wanted to change. I am glad I did not lock myself in the comfortable Nikon echo chamber as he helped me find the right solution for what I needed, got to know him better in the process and realized we actually shared far more in our approach to photography than had differences.

Broadening one horizon and allowing others to challenge our preconceptions might feel uncomfortable or even dangerous at times but it's amazing what one can get from it - and honestly there aren't many topics with lower stakes than camera brands to give it a try ;-)

I don’t recall anyone saying the Z6ii or Z7ii matched the top from Sony or Nikon for tracking BIF. If I had seen posts stating that here I would have jumped in with my opinion as someone who owns one. There were a lot of people comparing the Z7ii to the A1 saying how much better the A1 was and that Nikon was so far behind which is sort of ridiculous given you could buy two Z7ii cameras for less money. The excuse at the time was it was a fair comparison because it was the best mirrorless from both brands. The Z cameras are adequate for AF, without the excellent tracking modes but realistically only the comparable Canon and Sony cameras released near the same time had them. So yes, those mid range cameras are behind, which is why we want firmware updates, but far from unusable. I am familiar with what was available because I have been trying to shoot mirrorless exclusively since 2014 selling off all my Canon gear instead of upgrading my 5Dmkii. later seeing the R5 come out after buying a Z7 and 500mm PF hurt a little.

 

[Darrellhar]

Someone literally started their own thread being frustrated with Nikon and considering other brands. When I said Sony are immediately available that was a problem for some.

Honestly not sure what thread you are referring to as to was talking in general.

 

[Andy Work]

Broadening one horizon and allowing others to challenge our preconceptions might feel uncomfortable or even dangerous at times but it's amazing what one can get from it - and honestly there aren't many topics with lower stakes than camera brands to give it a try ;-)

I think some may perceive challenges to our preconceptions as bashing.

 

[Darrellhar]

The problem with that approach is that it creates echo chambers - the kind of echo chambers we had here for a while where people would tell you with a straight face that the AF in the Z6ii and Z7ii matched sony and canon for tracking fast birds when those of us who tried all of those cameras (including Steve) could affirm categorically it wasn't the case.

It's also the kind of echo chambers where folks don't want to hear why a loyal N-brand shooter of a decade decided to move to S-brand - which doesn't mean their reasons apply to all or even anybody else but don't you think folks might want to see if maybe their experience is relevant?

I can honestly say Hut and I did not see eye to eye on a number of topics when we first started chatting but his description of his journey from Nikon to Sony hit every thing I was feeling and wanted to change. I am glad I did not lock myself in the comfortable Nikon echo chamber as he helped me find the right solution for what I needed, got to know him better in the process and realized we actually shared far more in our approach to photography than had differences.

Broadening one horizon and allowing others to challenge our preconceptions might feel uncomfortable or even dangerous at times but it's amazing what one can get from it - and honestly there aren't many topics with lower stakes than camera brands to give it a try ;-)

If some one asked for an opinion or wants to have a debate I completely agree with you. If someone just asks other users of a specific brand their opinion on something I personally think it’s a different story. Sometimes all you are looking for is an echo chamber and not all the reasons why someone left a brand or thinks another brand is better. Photography for most of us is not just a hobby/business but an investment and not one we can either want to or afford to change. You may call it an echo chamber but sometimes people just want to vent to others and not be told all the reasons why someone thinks you made the wrong brand decision. My comment wasn’t directed at any specific conversation but rather in general. At the end of the day the cpu 4 inches behind the camera makes a bigger impact than what brand you are shooting.

 

[FB101]

I think some may perceive challenges to our preconceptions as bashing.

You are certainly right and I hope they don’t treat everything in their life that way. As we age it’s so easy to lose our childlike appetite for being amazed; I know I did for a while and I missed a lot of things but it’s never too late to get it back.