Beau Cotter
Member
Got it. I'll try to get to know the lens more and work on these things. Thanks for the info!
Would you think leaving VR on is fine with 1/1600"?
Not a giant deal for me, but I do like a smoother viewfinder.
Problems with new 500 f4 G
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Would you think leaving VR on is fine with 1/1600"?
Not a giant deal for me, but I do like a smoother viewfinder.
I generally leave VR on for all long lens shots and did so with my long G series lenses as well. I’d definitely leave it on if the lens wasn’t on a solid tripod.
fulltimewanderer
Well-known member
Beau, As Whiskeyman said that filter is part of the optical formula and must be installed at all times, or the polarizer version. Another possibility is without the filter in place all kinds of dirt and contamination could’ve coated the internal optics. I owned a 500 G and loved it. For me it was a tripod only lens with shutter speed at 1/500. Personally I would look for a replacement filter assembly and install it, see if image quality improves if not consider sending it to Nikon and have them clean and inspect it. Hopefully installing the filter assembly will correct your issue. Not sure if Nikon will even work on a G any longer. I also think it would be best to install a clear filter and not the polarizer version.
@Beau Cotter, BTW, and just for grins, what is the approximate camera-to-subject distance in your shots?
And what are your auto-focus settings?
And what are your auto-focus settings?
Jaylabj
Member
Your lens is probably a bad copy.
I bought a 500mm G brand new from B&H it it was wonderfully sharp at 100 feet. Any further and it was progressively softer. Thankfully B&H took it back without the slightest problem.
I bought a 600 f/4 from them and this lens is great!
I bought a new 200-500 from them as well and my copy was sharp up close at 200 and 500, soft at intermediate focal lengths (!), and mush at a distance at all settings.
Again, B&H took the return with no problem.
I now buy all my equipment from B&H!
-Jay-
I bought a 500mm G brand new from B&H it it was wonderfully sharp at 100 feet. Any further and it was progressively softer. Thankfully B&H took it back without the slightest problem.
I bought a 600 f/4 from them and this lens is great!
I bought a new 200-500 from them as well and my copy was sharp up close at 200 and 500, soft at intermediate focal lengths (!), and mush at a distance at all settings.
Again, B&H took the return with no problem.
I now buy all my equipment from B&H!
-Jay-
Beau Cotter
Member
I use AF-C BBAF(back button af) Usually single point but sometimes Group. I would say my average distance from my subjects is around 20-35 feet.
For the Junco photo, I can see where anything besides single point might cause you issues. The working distance shouldn't be a problem.
Have you reviewed your photos in Nikon software to check the point of AF of your photos?
Beau Cotter
Member
I haven't used their computer software before, but I was using Single Point AF, and I really believe that shot would've been sharp on the 200-500.
It will help to be sure that the point-of-focus is actually on the bird. It very likely is, but you could ascertain that by checking it in the Nikon software.
Jaylabj
Member
I suggest you try to focus midway along something like a gravel road or the side of a building. If the lens never shows an adequately sharp part of such a subject it is likely the lens.
-Jay-
-Jay-
Beau Cotter
Member
Good idea.
Beau Cotter
Member
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Ok, here is a sharpness comparison to the 200-500, both at f5.6. The sign was probably about 400 feet away, measured with a rangefinder.
The 500 F/4 is on the right, 200-500 on left.
the f4 was on a stable base, 1/500" at f/5.6 and ISO 500
Also, I did find the Nikon filter, so its in now.
(This is just a quick rough sharpness comparison, I think the 200-500 was at f7.1 so a bit noisier, but I just wanted to get an idea what the lens is capable of, and to make sure it was able to make sharp photos at all)
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I use a 500 f4 G for about 9 years now and it's sad to hear - sorry - read, that you have this kind of problem, because it's a great lens as long as nothing is broken. So here are my 2 - maybe 5 - cents.
Admittedly I haven't read all posts but only your initial one and a few others.
1. Filter
I can confirm that the standard filter must be in the lens to get proper results. I can't tell you why, but this was a general issue with some of the G series long glass. At Photographylife I remember to have read something about a test the have done with a AF-S 200-400 F4 G VR, which clearly showed a significant drop in IQ when testing the lens with the filter removed.
Thus, it's a good idea to fix that first If you have the holder a high quality 52mm NC filter is all you neet.
2. Camera
I hope I didn't overlook something, but in the initial post I couldn't find what camera you are using.
If you use a DSLR the reason can be a missing AF fine adjustment for the lens. In DSLR time any glass with 300mm or more went though this procedure. It is a standard function provided by the DSLRs and all you need is a bit of time, a second tripod and something called Spyder LensCal (or similar devices).
If you use a Z camera with FTZ this is not an issue. I use the 500 f4 G on a Z8 and it renders nothing but excellent results with the only reason not getting tack sharp images is myself
. If the lens shows the bevaviour you describe on a Z body it is very likely that something is wrong with the lens. The F-mount 500 f4 - even the G generation - still belongs to the sharpest super tele lenses Nikon has made to date.
3. The lens itself
Providing that the lens is o.k. mechanically, i.e. it hasn't been dropped so that the flange or some glass is out of position, there are two things that could cause this kind of problem:
If you then take the advice given above to look at some test photos with Nikon NX Studio, you will be able to see which AF sensor was actually used for each shot and that's where the image should be tack sharp - and I mean REALLY tack sharp -, because we are talking about a lens with proven Imatest figures of well beyond 3000 for resolution, which is around 45% more than your 200-500 at 500mm.
In fact you should see much better results with a 500 f4 G being in proper shape compared to what you are used to see from you 200-500.
If you can see there that the sharpness peak is not where the Nikon software shows the active AF sensor for the shot, but somewhere else in the image, it's time for AF fine adjustment.
As recommended above the test images should be shot with good light, stable support and VR switched OFF. In fact the G lens VR didn't seem to like sitting on a tripod for some reason and even if the switch says "Tripod", just switch it off.
If with all that taken into account you don't just get images with the sharpness in the wrong place but entirely soft images, I think it's time for a Rendez-vous with Nikon service. In the end it will save you a lot of time and nerves.
You are right with loving this lens, I can tell you. And I - well, I think most of us here - wish you all the best to get that sorted.
Admittedly I haven't read all posts but only your initial one and a few others.
1. Filter
I can confirm that the standard filter must be in the lens to get proper results. I can't tell you why, but this was a general issue with some of the G series long glass. At Photographylife I remember to have read something about a test the have done with a AF-S 200-400 F4 G VR, which clearly showed a significant drop in IQ when testing the lens with the filter removed.
Thus, it's a good idea to fix that first If you have the holder a high quality 52mm NC filter is all you neet.
2. Camera
I hope I didn't overlook something, but in the initial post I couldn't find what camera you are using.
If you use a DSLR the reason can be a missing AF fine adjustment for the lens. In DSLR time any glass with 300mm or more went though this procedure. It is a standard function provided by the DSLRs and all you need is a bit of time, a second tripod and something called Spyder LensCal (or similar devices).
If you use a Z camera with FTZ this is not an issue. I use the 500 f4 G on a Z8 and it renders nothing but excellent results with the only reason not getting tack sharp images is myself
. If the lens shows the bevaviour you describe on a Z body it is very likely that something is wrong with the lens. The F-mount 500 f4 - even the G generation - still belongs to the sharpest super tele lenses Nikon has made to date.3. The lens itself
Providing that the lens is o.k. mechanically, i.e. it hasn't been dropped so that the flange or some glass is out of position, there are two things that could cause this kind of problem:
- Defective AF motor
Happens very rarely but it happens. The last repair I can recall from somebody happened to be on a 500 f4 G and costed about 250 € here at Nikon Germany. - De-adjusted VR unit
Sounds weird when having an issue that you would relate to AF, but it's true.
It can happen either by mechanical impact to the lens, that would not cause mechanical damage, but enough do deadjust the VR unit , particularly while VR is working or - this information I got directly from Nikon recently - by not following the correct procedure when switching off the VR on Z cameras. Nikon explicitely recommends to switch the lens VR off ot the lens before swithcing the camera off.
If you switch the camera off while the lens VR is working this can lead this kind of adjustment sooner or later.
Good news ist, that this is something that noemally doesn't require spare parts, but can be solved with an adjustment that they would do as part of a normal lens inspection.
If you then take the advice given above to look at some test photos with Nikon NX Studio, you will be able to see which AF sensor was actually used for each shot and that's where the image should be tack sharp - and I mean REALLY tack sharp -, because we are talking about a lens with proven Imatest figures of well beyond 3000 for resolution, which is around 45% more than your 200-500 at 500mm.
In fact you should see much better results with a 500 f4 G being in proper shape compared to what you are used to see from you 200-500.
If you can see there that the sharpness peak is not where the Nikon software shows the active AF sensor for the shot, but somewhere else in the image, it's time for AF fine adjustment.
As recommended above the test images should be shot with good light, stable support and VR switched OFF. In fact the G lens VR didn't seem to like sitting on a tripod for some reason and even if the switch says "Tripod", just switch it off.
If with all that taken into account you don't just get images with the sharpness in the wrong place but entirely soft images, I think it's time for a Rendez-vous with Nikon service. In the end it will save you a lot of time and nerves.
You are right with loving this lens, I can tell you. And I - well, I think most of us here - wish you all the best to get that sorted.
Beau Cotter
Member
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Both the f4 here, both at f5.6, Same settings as last photo, but VR is on for the left photo, off for the right.
(the right photo is the same as the last comparison)
Also, for the left photo, I was using VR on a pretty stable base, so it might've hurt more than it helped, I'll go try the same test handheld, hang on!
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Beau Cotter
Member
Got it, I will look into it! Thank you so much for the information!I use a 500 f4 G for about 9 years now and it's sad to hear - sorry - read, that you have this kind of problem, because it's a great lens as long as nothing is broken. So here are my 2 - maybe 5 - cents.
Admittedly I haven't read all posts but only your initial one and a few others.
1. Filter
I can confirm that the standard filter must be in the lens to get proper results. I can't tell you why, but this was a general issue with some of the G series long glass. At Photographylife I remember to have read something about a test the have done with a AF-S 200-400 F4 G VR, which clearly showed a significant drop in IQ when testing the lens with the filter removed.
Thus, it's a good idea to fix that first If you have the holder a high quality 52mm NC filter is all you neet.
2. Camera
I hope I didn't overlook something, but in the initial post I couldn't find what camera you are using.
If you use a DSLR the reason can be a missing AF fine adjustment for the lens. In DSLR time any glass with 300mm or more went though this procedure. It is a standard function provided by the DSLRs and all you need is a bit of time, a second tripod and something called Spyder LensCal (or similar devices).
If you use a Z camera with FTZ this is not an issue. I use the 500 f4 G on a Z8 and it renders nothing but excellent results with the only reason not getting tack sharp images is myself
3. The lens itself
Providing that the lens is o.k. mechanically, i.e. it hasn't been dropped so that the flange or some glass is out of position, there are two things that could cause this kind of problem:
As mentioned befoe, step one should be the filter.
- Defective AF motor
Happens very rarely but it happens. The last repair I can recall from somebody happened to be on a 500 f4 G and costed about 250 € here at Nikon Germany.- De-adjusted VR unit
Sounds weird when having an issue that you would relate to AF, but it's true.
It can happen either by mechanical impact to the lens, that would not cause mechanical damage, but enough do deadjust the VR unit , particularly while VR is working or - this information I got directly from Nikon recently - by not following the correct procedure when switching off the VR on Z cameras. Nikon explicitely recommends to switch the lens VR off ot the lens before swithcing the camera off.
If you switch the camera off while the lens VR is working this can lead this kind of adjustment sooner or later.
Good news ist, that this is something that noemally doesn't require spare parts, but can be solved with an adjustment that they would do as part of a normal lens inspection.
If you then take the advice given above to look at some test photos with Nikon NX Studio, you will be able to see which AF sensor was actually used for each shot and that's where the image should be tack sharp - and I mean REALLY tack sharp -, because we are talking about a lens with proven Imatest figures of well beyond 3000 for resolution, which is around 45% more than your 200-500 at 500mm.
In fact you should see much better results with a 500 f4 G being in proper shape compared to what you are used to see from you 200-500.
If you can see there that the sharpness peak is not where the Nikon software shows the active AF sensor for the shot, but somewhere else in the image, it's time for AF fine adjustment.
As recommended above the test images should be shot with good light, stable support and VR switched OFF. In fact the G lens VR didn't seem to like sitting on a tripod for some reason and even if the switch says "Tripod", just switch it off.
If with all that taken into account you don't just get images with the sharpness in the wrong place but entirely soft images, I think it's time for a Rendez-vous with Nikon service. In the end it will save you a lot of time and nerves.
You are right with loving this lens, I can tell you. And I - well, I think most of us here - wish you all the best to get that sorted.
Well that's more like it ! As I am with my friend who is living inside a NP, here's a spontaneous sample of what you can expect from your lens.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
This is a 100% crop from an image taken yesterday with "your lens" on a Z8. The image is unprocessed apart from denoising.
The results with a D850 were of the same quality - after doing the job with AF fine adjustment.
No worries, you'll get it going !
Oh I forgot ! Shot with VR OFF !
Beau Cotter
Member
Wow!! Thats amazing, and great shot too!
Beau Cotter
Member
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Same Test as previous, but handheld, VR off on left, VR on in the right photo.
1/500" by the way, might be too fast, I think VR still hurt it! Wow....
No worries, that's what communities like this one are all about.
If it is not too complicated for you, it might still be a good idea to get the lens checked by the Nikon techies.
I was lucky enough to get mine from a friend who got the E series sibling instead and his lenses go through NPS routine checks at least every second year, but not everyone can do this.
Honestly, the only argument for me getting another lens than this one could be
- weight/balance or
- needing significantly more than 700mm (because even with the TC-14E II is does an excellent job) or
- relying on the additional features of the Z super tele lenses
Flyboy
Active member
Having solved the problem of all the optical elements being installed, could it be a techniqie malfunction? Not holding the camera/lens properly, or mashing the shutter button like you were smooshing a particularly ugly spider? I have fine-tuned my camera/lens combinations, and finally gave it up, and returned everything to zero. Worked just fine, no focus problems. YMMV!
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When one uses super teles, it is best to use 2X or even 3X the shutter speeds you would normally use. Note the shutter speed in post #41. Steve often mentions that a slow shutter speed can easily cause less-than-desirable sharpness. Also, cropping a large amount will also affect sharpness and apparent noise. Best to work on approach skills so that you have to crop as little as possible.
Beau Cotter
Member
I really hope thats the case, Im going to go out with it some more to see if I can crank up the keeper rate.Having solved the problem of all the optical elements being installed, could it be a techniqie malfunction? Not holding the camera/lens properly, or mashing the shutter button like you were smooshing a particularly ugly spider? O have fine-tuned my camera/lens combinations, and finally gave it up, and returned everything to zero. Worked just fine, no focus problems. YMMV!
Yup, fully agree. If shooting guns like this handheld higher shutter speeds are absolutely required unless you are a carbon tripod yourself
.But to put things right - and I am sorry I forgot to mention this - , the image in post #41 was only a 100% crop of the complete image to show what the lens is capable of and ... this shot was taken from the tripod !
PhotoLover
Well-known member
I'm not sure I agree. I go down to 400, 320 handheld, occasionally a bit lower with the 500 pf on a D500 and the keeper rate remains high; the VR is pretty good. It may be the 500 F4's VR is not as good, and of course a heavier lens is harder to manage.
I'll go down to 640 or 500 at times with the 1.4 converter on. But again, I haven't used the lens in question, only a different 500 prime (one that is really easy to handle).