Second lens to use with 800PF for birding

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If you have the 500mm PF and 800mm PF, I’m not sure what would be a good fit. With rumors of a 600mm PF becoming more frequent, it may be best to wait it out and see if it happens. You could swap the 500mm for the 400mm but for birds i probably wouldn’t. The 200-600mm, or whatever it becomes and whenever it gets released may be interesting. I keep thinking about the 800mm PF for myself, but I don’t shoot birds often so I keep wondering if I would use it enough. If the 600mm PF ever happens, I think it would be my choice.
 
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As I grow more accustomed to the 800PF during this Spring migration, I have a creeping suspicion that my 400 4.5 is going to see less and less usage. My eventual 100-400’s sole purpose will be for super up-close shooting situations (from blinds, or when certain species are know to be bold), and also for getting shots of non-bird things, which I feel will help keep things fresh. Even then, unless it’s going with me on a trip as my sole lens, it probably won’t see much use either.

So, after more thought, my original recommendation still stands: the 100-400 would make for an ideal 2nd lens to the 800, due to the added versatility, along with opening up new possibilities that the other options lack (pseudo-macro, being wide enough for landscapes, etc). That’s not to say the 400 4.5 and 500PF aren’t good choices, they’re both absolutely fantastic, and whichever you go with will be great.

As for the future, while a 600TC would be the ultimate lens, I’m very, very interested in the rumored Canon 200-500 f/4 TC. That’ll potentially trigger a switch to Canon for me.
 
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Gov said:
For birding, I am using a Z9 with 800PF almost all the time. I just ordered a Z8 to use as my second camera. For all you bird photographers what would be the most useful lens to use alongside the 800? 500PF (which I have), Z400 4.5, Z100-400 or F mount 600 F4 (which I have but would only use close to home due to size). The Z 400 and 600 TC's are out due to cost. I live in the Shenandoah Valley so most of the local birds are small and I'm rarely too close, but I do travel often so have opportunities for larger birds. I realize that if I"m on safari or whaling, I will need my 80-400 or a new Z100-400. If I didn't have the 500 the 400 4.5 would really interest me since I tend to prefer primes. What I'm looking for is a lens that would draw me away from the 800, which I love, so I'm not using it all the time. The combinations are interesting: 800 and a 400 to spit the focal lengths and have consistent controls on the lenses, 800 and 600 so I almost have a Z600TC, 800 and 100-400 in case a bear ambles by or a bird gets really close, along with consistent controls, or 800 and 500 for a lightweight duo. What second lens would get the most use?
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I'd be going through my old images EXIF data to see any trends.
I do like the 400 f4.5 over my 400 f2.8 and 600mm f4 lenses for the size/weight and i'm lazy and its very practical and sharp.
The 100-400 seems more versatile and it focuses down to about one metre but I dont like variable aperture lenses and its AF is a bit slower.
There is a 600mm PF and 200-600 on the roadmap that should be very interesting ... 🦘
 
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I am a birder and photograph mostly for ID for E bird etc.. Many non profits and several ornithologists use my photography. Some end up being used beyond ID. I have won a few contests. I also print a few and have them in galleries and exhibits from time to time besides on my own wall.

I have had a Z9 with Z800 PF pretty much a permanent resident on it since 5-1-22.

I now have another Z9 with Z100-400 on it in a Think Tank Holster and a Z1.4 TC in the pocket of the holster. Mostly a back up but when I need variable focal length for flocks etc. or for the near macro capabilities it is great. This is the set up that replaced my 500 PF and 600 f/4E.

I have a standing order with my favorite mid sized brick and mortar store for the Z200-600 if and when it ever shows up :)

My wife is the more experienced half of Miracle Photography and has been shooting since 1975 ... I am going on 13 years playing with cameras.
She is smaller and had arthritis. She has been using a Z50 with a Z400 f/4.5 but just got a new Z7II. She has only used it twice but so far so good.
 
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Ken Miracle said:
I am a birder and photograph mostly for ID for E bird etc.. Many non profits and several ornithologists use my photography. Some end up being used beyond ID. I have won a few contests. I also print a few and have them in galleries and exhibits from time to time besides on my own wall.

I have had a Z9 with Z800 PF pretty much a permanent resident on it since 5-1-22.

I now have another Z9 with Z100-400 on it in a Think Tank Holster and a Z1.4 TC in the pocket of the holster. Mostly a back up but when I need variable focal length for flocks etc. or for the near macro capabilities it is great. This is the set up that replaced my 500 PF and 600 f/4E.

I have a standing order with my favorite mid sized brick and mortar store for the Z200-600 if and when it ever shows up :)

My wife is the more experienced half of Miracle Photography and has been shooting since 1975 ... I am going on 13 years playing with cameras.
She is smaller and had arthritis. She has been using a Z50 with a Z400 f/4.5 but just got a new Z7II. She has only used it twice but so far so good.
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Thanks! Yours is the way I'm leaning. I wonder how much heavier the 180/200-600 is going to be over the 100-400?
 
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Gov said:
Thanks! Yours is the way I'm leaning. I wonder how much heavier the 180/200-600 is going to be over the 100-400?
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good question but since I am not extremely sensitive to the weight, unlike my wife, I honestly have not thought about it. The heaviest lenses I have used are the Nikon 600 f/4E and the Sigma 60-600 Sport. As I have with all lenses for the last 5 or 6 years I hand held those two. The 600 f/4E had some big positives but logistics ie. length and diameter ... it did not want to fit anywhere.
 
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I must agree, the Z9 and the 100-400 is a great day-in-the-woods lens. I also have the 800 for more stationary shooting. I have not yet tried the 400/4.5.
At this point my Z9 meets all my needs. I have yet to see a Z8 but look forward to that experience.
 
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Now that the 180-600 and 600PF are out and reviewed it may be a good time to revisit this thread. Lots of good advice here. There are similar threads on what lenses to use, but this one concerns those who have decided the 800PF is their main lens (birds are probably their main subjects and are most often at the 800 focal length). I have now sold all my dslr gear (except the 500pf and the 600 f4-can't bear to give them up yet) and bought the 180-600. So far, on backyard birds, it seems plenty sharp and backgrounds are good. Heavier than I would like but manageable. I have decided to buy the z 24-120 f4 as my third lens. I think I can get all three of these lens and two cameras in my Kiboto 30 to carry on a plane, so will be my kit for now. My next trips are to Mexico for birds and whales, and Yellowstone for wolves and other spring wildlife. I think these lenses will cover most situations.
If money were no object, it would be nice to have the 600PF and 100-400 (or 400 4.5) as a lightweight kit when I didn't want the weight of the 800 and 180-600. I don't really see the 600 as a second lens to the 800, more as an alternative. I do think think the 100-400 or 400 could be--we'll see how the 180-600 does.
(And it money was really no object, and weight was not a consideration, it would be really nice to have the 400TC, 600TC, and holy trinity of 2.8 zooms. Ha!)
Things have really changed for Nikon users. Just a few years ago, if you were a wildlife photographer, the one lens to get was the 600 f4, if you could afford it. Now there are so many choices, it becomes a real dilemma.
 
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Gov said:
Now that the 180-600 and 600PF are out and reviewed it may be a good time to revisit this thread...this one concerns those who have decided the 800PF is their main lens (birds are probably their main subjects and are most often at the 800 focal length)...bought the 180-600. I have decided to buy the z 24-120 f4 as my third lens. I think I can get all three of these lens and two cameras in my Kiboto 30 to carry on a plane, so will be my kit for now. My next trips are to Mexico for birds and whales, and Yellowstone for wolves and other spring wildlife. I think these lenses will cover most situations...I don't really see the 600 as a second lens to the 800, more as an alternative...

...Things have really changed for Nikon users. Just a few years ago, if you were a wildlife photographer, the one lens to get was the 600 f4, if you could afford it. Now there are so many choices, it becomes a real dilemma.
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That kit certainly covers things. I prefer shooting primes(and do better with them) but added the 180-600 to my kit. It's a handy option to have if you're headed into unknown shooting conditions and/or subject matter. Certainly for the whale trip that you mention the zoom will be nice.

I agree that the 600PF isn't a second lens to the 800PF but more of a substitute when needing to travel light. IMO the 400 4.5(with 1.4x TC in the bag) or the 500PF work well to supplement the 800. But I'm biased because I already have the 400 and need to justify it :)

Indeed how much things have changed in the past couple of years for Nikon shooters. Great range of options in the Z-mount lineup and great used prices on high end f-mount for those who could never afford them or can't afford the Z-mount counterparts. It's a great time to be a photographer.
 
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I would travel with the 800 PF and 100-600. In case a bird is closer or perhaps a larger birds and you want to capture more than the just the bird, the zoom will give you flexibility
 
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There are decided advantages to having a zoom lens with closer or larger subjects to be able to provide more space in the frame around the subject(s) and provide context. My 80-400mm was replaced by the 100-400mm to provide that functionality. When I owned the 200-500mm zoom lens I always had the 80-400mm along as well to provide wider view angles than that afforded at 200mm with the big zoom lens.

Ideal for me would be the Canon 100-500mm zoom lens but not worth switching to Canon at this time. The Canon R5 C would be great for video and using the Canon cine lenses for those focusing on video shooting.
 
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Yeah, 800PF + 180-600 are where I’m settling for my prime-time birding setup, like Spring Migration and such, where the target is small Warblers.

I have the 600PF for when I am traveling light or don’t feel like carrying a huge kit. The diminutive size & weight makes a huge difference.
 
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I am a run and gun birder and have used the Z800pf on a Z9 about 90% of the time since 5-1-22. I do not find the Z800 heavy at all, probably because I am a former 600 f/4 E owner.

I now have the Z180-600 on my other Z9 and it is 1 back up and 2 used when shorter distances to subject are involved and need for variable focal length always seems to happen at the same time, hence why I am not interested in the 600 pf.

I still have the Z100-400, Z70-200 and in a pinch could borrow my wife's Z400 f/4.5.

I also have the Z1.4 and 2.0 TC's but never use them.
 
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To me, it is all about traveling and lightweight. I have just changed my travel kit of Z9 and Z6 II, Z 24-70 f4, Z 100-400 f4.5-5.6 and 500 f5.6 pf, by removing the 500 and replacing with Z 600 f6.3. My backpack weighs between 15-20 lbs depending whether my 17 inch laptop is included. No TCs. If I need more reach I just go to DX mode. If going by car, I add the 300 f4 pf, TC 14 III, FTZ II and Z 20 f1.8 for other uses.
 
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A separate problem I have encountered is the amount of image magnification required for the Z9 animal detect to function properly. With a 100-400mm lens I have had to use it at 400mm to have animal detect lock onto the eyes and then could shorten the focal length to around 300mm for the framing that I wanted for the subject.

Where I often photograph birds they vary in size from very small songbirds that are 3 inches in height and shore birds to pelicans and egret and herons that are 3 feet tall. No single focal length works well or even any two prime lens focal lengths.
 
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