For birding, I am using a Z9 with 800PF almost all the time. I just ordered a Z8 to use as my second camera. For all you bird photographers what would be the most useful lens to use alongside the 800? 500PF (which I have), Z400 4.5, Z100-400 or F mount 600 F4 (which I have but would only use close to home due to size). The Z 400 and 600 TC's are out due to cost. I live in the Shenandoah Valley so most of the local birds are small and I'm rarely too close, but I do travel often so have opportunities for larger birds. I realize that if I"m on safari or whaling, I will need my 80-400 or a new Z100-400. If I didn't have the 500 the 400 4.5 would really interest me since I tend to prefer primes. What I'm looking for is a lens that would draw me away from the 800, which I love, so I'm not using it all the time. The combinations are interesting: 800 and a 400 to spit the focal lengths and have consistent controls on the lenses, 800 and 600 so I almost have a Z600TC, 800 and 100-400 in case a bear ambles by or a bird gets really close, along with consistent controls, or 800 and 500 for a lightweight duo. What second lens would get the most use?
Second lens to use with 800PF for birding
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MatthewK
Well-known member
I have the 800PF, 400 4.5, and am waiting for a 100-400 to arrive. I’m in the same debate myself, and came to a conclusion this morning shooting a Yellow Warbler that kept landing 3-4’ from me: if I’m shooting birds, 800 is my default, and I won’t choose to take the 400 4.5 out over the 800. When a bird comes in so close that I can’t use the 800, and the 400 4.5 doesn’t give me that much more up-close advantage, whereas the 100-400 would. Thus, while the 400 4.5 is amazing, it sort of falls in a no-man’s land for me, and I think the 100-400 is the more useful lens to compliment the 800PF.
Now, I envision the 400 4.5, 1.4TC, and Z8 will serve the purpose of a compact, 1 lens + 1 camera birding travel setup. Yet, I’ll still weigh whether or not the 100-400 even makes more sense for that role as well. So, I’ll have all 3 lenses for a while in order to assess.
In a nutshell: 800 covers everything at distance, and the 100-400 covers everything up close, from landscapes to large mammals, and in a pinch will do birds if you use the 1.4TC.
Now, I envision the 400 4.5, 1.4TC, and Z8 will serve the purpose of a compact, 1 lens + 1 camera birding travel setup. Yet, I’ll still weigh whether or not the 100-400 even makes more sense for that role as well. So, I’ll have all 3 lenses for a while in order to assess.
In a nutshell: 800 covers everything at distance, and the 100-400 covers everything up close, from landscapes to large mammals, and in a pinch will do birds if you use the 1.4TC.
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John Navitsky
Well-known member
i'm not a birder, but if you have a 500pf, that sounds like it's pretty optimal until they make a 600pf or 200-600. if you didn't already have the 500pf, i'd say the 400 4.5, but it's a bit short.
my guess is wait for the 200-600 or maybe a lightweight 600 (although, i don't think there's one on the roadmap, so the 200-600 is pretty likely what will show up in a more reasonable time-frame)
my guess is wait for the 200-600 or maybe a lightweight 600 (although, i don't think there's one on the roadmap, so the 200-600 is pretty likely what will show up in a more reasonable time-frame)
DRM
Well-known member
While birding, do you like to take pics of bees, dragonflies, frogs, and other stuff you can get close to? I exchanged my 100-400 S for the 400 f/4.5 and I miss the much closer minimum focusing distance of the 100-400 S more than I thought I would. Now, if I want to indulge in quasi macro I put on the 70-200. But the 100-400 is a great “all in one” versatile option.
The ideal second lens is a 200-600 or 150-600. I currently am using the Sony 200-600mm with the Megadap adapter and it's terrific. Really, the only reason I would get the (still mythical) Nikon version at this point is that it will surely be easier to use with a 1.4x TC. I would think that if you already have the big 800mm you would not want a second really large lens like the 600mm f4 to use in the field at the same time. MANY photographers use the 100-400mm as a second lens when using a 600mm f4, so it would seem reasonable to use that lens with the 800mm, as well. The 100-400mm Z works well with the Z 1.4x teleconverter, so you can get out to 560mm with good quality results.
On the other hand, if you already have the 80-400mm, I can't see that the Z 100-400mm is that big of an upgrade. If you can't be drawn into using the 80-400 you probably won't use the 100-400mm, either.
On the other hand, if you already have the 80-400mm, I can't see that the Z 100-400mm is that big of an upgrade. If you can't be drawn into using the 80-400 you probably won't use the 100-400mm, either.
I have the 800PF. 100-400Z, TC1.4Z and the 500PF. I was at a local Audubon Society Raptor Photo day today. While the 800PF would have been too long this time and stayed home today, the value of the 100-400 zoom range plus the TC allowed me to work at some distance, get closeup of the captive raptors including a wild invader (juvenile red-tail), catch shots of smaller birds at the feeders and in the trees around us. I could not have captured this range of shots without the zoom and sometimes, the TC. Great combo. It is my goto setup for a two camera day! I am keeping my 500PF for when 800 is too long, but the value of the zoom cannot be ignored.
I mostly use a 500PF with the adapter, well because 800PFs are just about impossible to get these days. I have the 100-400Z lens for closer bird shots. Waiting to see what else comes out, but since I have the Z8 on order, I might just hold off on new lenses for now.
luckmurph
Well-known member
I have the 800pf, 400 4.5, 100-400 & 70-200 out of those i use the 800 then the 400 the most, think ive only used the 100-400 half a dozen times!
The 400 makes an excellent walk around lens especially with a 1.4tc in your pocket!!
The 400 makes an excellent walk around lens especially with a 1.4tc in your pocket!!
I would agree…400/4.5, the TCs (at least the 1.4 one) and/or the 100-400. Depends on what birds…bigger or closer ones the zoom might be a better choice but smaller NR faster ones the prime might be a better choice and it is better than the 100-400 when pixel peeping but not really at screen display sizes so also depends on your output. I’ve passed on the 800 so far because I’m not sure how much I would actually use it…I think I will do an outing and put it and the 2.0 TC on my Z7II for a test…IQ would not be really what I was evaluating there but focal length limitations…my gut feel is that for most of what I do 800 would be too long…my current bird kit here in SW FL is the 400/4.5 with TC for 560 and the 100-400 on either the Z9 body on my double BR strap and will be the Z8 and Z9 when it gets here.
Really depends on bird sizes and ranges and whether the quasi macro the zoom gives you is important. For me…the prime and TC for longer distances and the flexibility of the zoom are a nice combo.
Really depends on bird sizes and ranges and whether the quasi macro the zoom gives you is important. For me…the prime and TC for longer distances and the flexibility of the zoom are a nice combo.
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joe43
Well-known member
Its a hard choice. Given the lenses you already own, I would put the 500mm f5.6 on your Z 8. And leave the 800 pf on the Z9. If you got the 100-400mm (I have it) my guess is thaat it will bw ar 400mm most of the time.
Calson
Well-known member
For me the best companion lens is the 100-400mm and I use mine more than half the time with the 1.4x teleconverter attached for 140-560mm. The zoom function helps with eye detect and autofocus with the Z9. I have had situations where I needed 400mm magnification to lock focus and then could zoom out to 300mm for a large bird.
I sold my 500mm PF (which I regret) and I used it more often than my 600mm f/4 lens. Big advatage in being able to shoot hand held and move around freely without needing a tripod. The 400mm f/4.5 and TC works well but I find the zoom more useful in many situations, like shooting from a boat, where the cameras to subject distance is fixed.
The 200-600mm might be a good option depending when in 2024 it will actually be available to purchase. I probably will buy the z-mount Sigma 60-600mm when it ships as it provides a more versatile zoom range and will be much better for shooting videos from a fixed position. The Sigma 60-600mm is going to be a heavy lens but if I am shooting video with the camera mounted on a tripod then it will not be a problem.
I sold my 500mm PF (which I regret) and I used it more often than my 600mm f/4 lens. Big advatage in being able to shoot hand held and move around freely without needing a tripod. The 400mm f/4.5 and TC works well but I find the zoom more useful in many situations, like shooting from a boat, where the cameras to subject distance is fixed.
The 200-600mm might be a good option depending when in 2024 it will actually be available to purchase. I probably will buy the z-mount Sigma 60-600mm when it ships as it provides a more versatile zoom range and will be much better for shooting videos from a fixed position. The Sigma 60-600mm is going to be a heavy lens but if I am shooting video with the camera mounted on a tripod then it will not be a problem.
Thanks! And I could use my 500, 1.4TC, and Z8 for lightweight birding travel.
You comments really got me thinking. I like all three of my long lenses, and would like to get more use out of the 600 and 500 but probably should just take one on most outings, letting the circumstances determine which one. I tend to not think of my 80-400 because of all the negative comments about it being soft, but I've gotten some good pics with it. I could use it as my second lens until the 200-600 comes out and then decide between it and the 100-400. Or just trade it for the 100-400 now since that is a proven lens, with good reviews. From your and other comments I think the key thing is to have a long lens on one camera and a more versatile on the other.
joe43
Well-known member
Before buying anything, rent it nd give it a good workout.
If you're talking exclusively birds IMO it's hard to beat the combination of 800/500PF. Many are replacing the 500PF with the 400 4.5 plus 1.4x. But if you already have the 500 it makes little sense to get the 400 and then shoot all the time with a TC attached. I have both lenses and there's little real difference in IQ. I bought the 400 for a specific reason and have no plans to get rid of the 500PF unless/until Nikon produces a Z mount replacement. The Z8/500PF should make for an excellent travel kit. I strongly prefer prime lenses so don't and likely won't own a Z 100-400 so can't really comment on it. I'll wait for the 200-600.
I've never understood the widespread negative comments re. the 80-400mm. IMO one of those internet driven myths that took on a life of its own and is now ingrained.
I've never understood the widespread negative comments re. the 80-400mm. IMO one of those internet driven myths that took on a life of its own and is now ingrained.
I am agreeance with Dan above. I have the 800 and 500 PF and it is a great combo but I also have the 100-400 f4.5-5.6 VR S. If I didn't have the 500 PF I would get the 400 f4.5 and use the 1.4x TC when required.
Also in agrreance with Dan, I always thought the 80-400 f4.5-5.6G VR had unwarranted negative press, mine worked well and was very sharp right through to 400mm. I think the negative comments were possibly due to AF fine tune issues on some copies or some DSLR's which is never an issue on the Z cameras.
Also in agrreance with Dan, I always thought the 80-400 f4.5-5.6G VR had unwarranted negative press, mine worked well and was very sharp right through to 400mm. I think the negative comments were possibly due to AF fine tune issues on some copies or some DSLR's which is never an issue on the Z cameras.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Little to add to solid advice above. Usually, I also use the 1.46kg 500 PF with the 800 PF as my commando kit for birds and mammals, or substitute 100-400 S. Another less common choice these days is a 755g 300 f4E PF+TC14 III. With the FTZ on a Z8, the 300 PF combo weighs 1225g. Moreover, it's of note that the 300 PF is the only f-mount prime I found to pair well with my copy of the fickle TC17 II on a D850: as a 510 f6.7
However, the 400 f4.5S weighs only 1.25kg; remove the tripod foot, and it's a mere 2070g combination with the 910g Z8; these back of the cig-packet-type calculations can be dangerous to one's $$$ health
If you have a good quality copy of the 80-400 G , look after it
bcgforums.com
EDIT: useful comparisons of options by ThomH
overviews: https://dslrbodies.com/lenses/lens-articles/choosing-lenses/rationalizing-lenses.html
EDIT: and late 2023, there's even more choices in the 1.95 kg 180-600 Z Nikkor and not least the 1.4 kg 600 f6.3S PF !
However, the 400 f4.5S weighs only 1.25kg; remove the tripod foot, and it's a mere 2070g combination with the 910g Z8; these back of the cig-packet-type calculations can be dangerous to one's $$$ health
If you have a good quality copy of the 80-400 G , look after it
Help me justify Nikon 80-400mm
OK, I suppose this is just me with GAS, but I've had an itch to purchase a Nikon 80-400mm G lens. The problems is, I am finding it hard to justify since I have 70-200 f/2.8 (and TC-1.4E II). 70-300 AF-P DX VR, and 200-500mm. It is not like I need more coverage in that range, though it is lighter...
bcgforums.com
EDIT: useful comparisons of options by ThomH
Best Telephoto Options in the Z Mount | Thom Hogan
What's the best telephoto option for a Z camera at 200-800mm?
www.zsystemuser.com
overviews: https://dslrbodies.com/lenses/lens-articles/choosing-lenses/rationalizing-lenses.html
EDIT: and late 2023, there's even more choices in the 1.95 kg 180-600 Z Nikkor and not least the 1.4 kg 600 f6.3S PF !
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If you narrow your choice to between the 100-400 or the 400 f4.5, definitely go with the prime. Most of the time for bird photography you will be at 400 anyway, and the zoom is soft at the long end. I have both, and am getting ready to sell the 100-400. The 400 f4.5 plays so well with the 1.4 tc you can sell the 500 PF and buy more gear 
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.jaw111
Member
I'm using the 800 pf-500pf and the 300pf
If you shoot birds from a boat, a zoom is almost essential for me. When you can't "zoom with your feet" to compose an image, I find using prime lenses a compositional challenge.
MatthewK
Well-known member
That’s a concern for me as well… just how soft are we talking? I’ve read that it’s only slightly softer at MFD @ 400mm. I really want to see for myself (I should have one in-hand here soon).If you narrow your choice to between the 100-400 or the 400 f4.5, definitely go with the prime. Most of the time for bird photography you will be at 400 anyway, and the zoom is soft at the long end. I have both, and am getting ready to sell the 100-400. The 400 f4.5 plays so well with the 1.4 tc you can sell the 500 PF and buy more gear
I am a minority, although others have commented as well. I never felt the love for the 100-400 that others did. Brad Hill likes it (http://www.naturalart.ca/artist/cameragear2.html#anchor_lenses_100-400) as do many others. Brad finds it soft between 350 - 400mm out to f7.1, after that it's sharp. I just find the 400 f4.5 easily outperforms at 400mm, and this is where I mostly shoot. That said, the 100-400 is extremely compact and lightweight, which makes it great for travel and a "walk-about" kit. (Although the 400 f4.5 is certainly easy to handle in all respects.) Anyway, my opinion based on how I shoot.
I struggle with this question every trip I make. I have a 500 PF, 300PF, 70-200 and 100-400, and deciding which ones to take is always hard, and when I get there I sometimes wish I had taken a different combo. If any of you find the perfect combo that works in every situation let me know.
I have a 500 PF, 300PF, 70-200 and 100-400, and deciding which ones to take is always hard, and when I get there I sometimes wish I had taken a different combo. If any of you find the perfect combo that works in every situation let me know.
I have the 800 pf, the 400 f4.5, and the 100-400. I use all on a Z9, and the 400 and 100-400 sometimes on a Z6ii. The zoom sees no use for the way I shoot, and am thinking to sell it. The 2 primes are awesome.
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