Sony files, what am I missing?

[sh1209]

I want to preface this post by saying I'm in no way trying to start another brand war. I have been editing images in some capacity for nearly 20 years with various cameras and even cell phone images. Having said that, I recently purchased a Sony A1 to see what all the hype is about. The autofocus, ergonomics and customization is great on this camera. Also the 200-600mm lens is a awesome internal zoom/telephoto lens. I have taken 2500-3000 images in various conditions ranging from low, cloudy days to full sun. I have the camera pretty well dialed in where I want it. Now the bad. No matter what color profile, editing style or manipulation within photoshop or Lightroom, the imaged just never seem right to me. I can take pretty much any Nikon file and make it useable. I'm sure others have struggled with this, in fact Steve Perry has mentioned the files taking more work to complete. I'm open to any suggestions or advice from any long time Sony users. Frankly, they look like **** LOL, pardon the French. If I can't get a handle on this soon, then the A1 will go back.

 

[bleirer]

Just wondering if you've tried the same files using the software Sony provides? Or if you've compared in Lightroom Jpegs of the same image with raw.

Also can we see a couple?

 

[LTK]

I'd be interested too , I came from Nikon D850 and now A1 . At the moment using capture one 21 but also have PS/LR

 

[sh1209]

Just wondering if you've tried the same files using the software Sony provides? Or if you've compared in Lightroom Jpegs of the same image with raw.

Also can we see a couple?

Unfortunately I don’t shoot jpegs and I’m not near my Mac right now. I did post some pictures of eagles on the wildlife forum today.

 

[sh1209]

I am importing directly into Lightroom classic with the standard Adobe profile which is what I use on all my Nikon files and perhaps at something as simple as changing it back to camera profile.

 

[DavidT]

I haven't had that experience using Lightroom. Only use PS for lasso mode. You can send me a file and I will edit it and see what you think. I honestly don't do much other than crop, I click auto exposure to get a feel for what Lightroom thinks should be done and than I edit the sliders to taste and done. I typically send via a pass through denoise and I am finished.

 

[sh1209]

I haven't had that experience using Lightroom. Only use PS for lasso mode. You can send me a file and I will edit it and see what you think. I honestly don't do much other than crop, I click auto exposure to get a feel for what Lightroom thinks should be done and than I edit the sliders to taste and done. I typically send via a pass through denoise and I am finished.

Maybe it’s just going to take me a while to get used to tweaking the sliders with these files because I’m so used to working with Nikon files

 

[DavidT]

Unfortunately I don’t shoot jpegs and I’m not near my Mac right now. I did post some pictures of eagles on the wildlife forum today.

I just took a peek at these. I see what you are saying. Nice shots but looks flat. Could be the lighting but possibly change the WB, a little vibrance and saturation. The light looks a little flat but I would think that can be tweaked. What WB setting are you using in camera? I have never had an issue with the RAW files, tried some compressed RAW and seems fine in my limited samples. I will say the Jpeg the camera imbeds in the RAW file does not look near as good as my Nikon jpegs inside of RAW files.

 

[sh1209]

I just took a peek at these. I see what you are saying. Nice shots but looks flat. Could be the lighting but possibly change the WB, a little vibrance and saturation. The light looks a little flat but I would think that can be tweaked. What WB setting are you using in camera? I have never had an issue with the RAW files, tried some compressed RAW and seems fine in my limited samples. I will say the Jpeg the camera imbeds in the RAW file does not look near as good as my Nikon jpegs inside of RAW files.

I am using auto white balance and I am using the most compressed raw file. I suppose that could also be what’s causing it. What your stating is exactly what I’m experiencing they all look flat and like somethings shot on a 15 year old camera.

 

[sh1209]

I just took a peek at these. I see what you are saying. Nice shots but looks flat. Could be the lighting but possibly change the WB, a little vibrance and saturation. The light looks a little flat but I would think that can be tweaked. What WB setting are you using in camera? I have never had an issue with the RAW files, tried some compressed RAW and seems fine in my limited samples. I will say the Jpeg the camera imbeds in the RAW file does not look near as good as my Nikon jpegs inside of RAW files.

I’ll send you a raw file when I get back home later this eve. It’s really frustrating me because nothing I try seems to help.

 

[John Navitsky]

i would consider looking at other color profiles, like "camera standard" and compare them against the adobe versions.

the other thing i'd mention if you are changing from a lower resolution camera to a higher mp camera, you may need more shutter speed to avoid subtle motion blur, and it may take a while to get the feel for the higher resolution images.

not to mention things like getting use to a new camera's highlight/lowlight thresholds and metering and all that jazz.

 

[sh1209]

i would consider looking at other color profiles, like "camera standard" and compare them against the adobe versions.

the other thing i'd mention if you are changing from a lower resolution camera to a higher mp camera, you may need more shutter speed to avoid subtle motion blur, and it may take a while to get the feel for the higher resolution images.

not to mention things like getting use to a new camera's highlight/lowlight thresholds and metering and all that jazz.

I’m coming from a Z7ii which is basically the same mp as the Sony

 

[arbitrage]

I literally can't tell my R5, A1, A7RIV, D850 or Z9 files a part and I do nothing different in processing between them. I process in LR and usually use Adobe Color for all of them except for the R5 as Adobe was broken for the R5 when I owned it (now fixed).

If you want a fair comparison, download the DPR test scene RAWs at whatever ISOs you want to compare from your previous camera and the A1. See if there really is much difference when the lighting and subject is controlled for. I doubt you'll find much in it.

 

[Mommacat]

Thank you for posting this question. I'm not trying to be negative, but I too had the same issues and no matter what I tried, in the end I ended up having to spend much more time adjusting the A1 files. I would love to learn what others suggest. The only thing that seemed to help some was opening the files in DXO first before moving to LR and then running through Topaz Denoise, but honestly I wasn't a fan of the extra steps. My Nikon files have always been beautiful straight in LR, as long as I do my job, and the Canon R5 files were also gorgeous; neither required an extra step. Again, thank you and good luck!

 

[sh1209]

I literally can't tell my R5, A1, A7RIV, D850 or Z9 files a part and I do nothing different in processing between them. I process in LR and usually use Adobe Color for all of them except for the R5 as Adobe was broken for the R5 when I owned it (now fixed).

If you want a fair comparison, download the DPR test scene RAWs at whatever ISOs you want to compare from your previous camera and the A1. See if there really is much difference when the lighting and subject is controlled for. I doubt you'll find much in it.

I can tell you for sure from my D850, Z7ii, Z7 or Z6ii files are much easier to work with and look better overall. I’m sure it’s something I’m doing wrong but there’s no denying the difference I see.

 

[Steve]

The workflow might just be different. At first, I seemed to find them just a little less flexible than the Nikon files, but anymore I hardly notice. I think I just sort of subconsciously adjusted my workflow a little. Sadly, I don't have a lot of specifics, but I can tell you a few things that come to mind.

First I find that, most of the time, my Sony files seem a little too warm. This is NOT 100% across the board (sometimes they are too cool as well), but it does seem to be the case more often than not. Having a color cast of any kind can make processing seem much more difficult than it is. Often, when I cool off a Sony file, I find the colors snap right in. I have also noticed the greens in Sony - especially the darker ones - are not as easy to manipulate. Sometimes, you have to do those a little more selectively. They like to "weirdly oversaturate" if that makes sense.

The other thing I notice is that getting a good white and bald point makes a noticeable difference too. Not that it doesn't help every file, but it seems more critical for the Sony files.

All that said, once I got used to the Sony files, it really wasn't a big deal and, for the most part, I really like the colors and overall appearance of the files once processed.

 

[sh1209]

Thank you for posting this question. I'm not trying to be negative, but I too had the same issues and no matter what I tried, in the end I ended up having to spend much more time adjusting the A1 files. I would love to learn what others suggest. The only thing that seemed to help some was opening the files in DXO first before moving to LR and then running through Topaz Denoise, but honestly I wasn't a fan of the extra steps. My Nikon files have always been beautiful straight in LR, as long as I do my job, and the Canon R5 files were also gorgeous; neither required an extra step. Again, thank you and good luck!

I agree wholeheartedly

 

[Steve]

Also, when you get a chance, if you could post a few examples that would help tremendously. It might even be helpful if you could shoot a few side by side with the Nikons. It's easy to say one camera is or isn't doing as well, but sometimes you discover that, under the same conditions, they are closer than you think. I speak from experience doing lots of testing over the years. Some things you find out the hard way LOL!

 

[FB101]

There is definitely a learning curve going from Nikon to Sony and I am still on it. I do find that the files take more work and that colors especially are more finicky - it’s all fixable but not as straight forward.
I do like to use custom color profiles if I remember to shoot my color checker, it helps quite a bit. I also like dxo pure raw when I shoot the 200-600 but I don’t like it at all with the 600 f:4 (now I know why Steve isn’t a fan, the artefacts are a major issue).
Overall, I do like the colors I get, most of the time, but its just more work. Contrast is easy to deal with, gentle S curve shaped based on the amount of dark and light usually takes care of it _ but color casts can be real pains at time.
‘The A1 files also respond well to a bit of saturation in the blue sensor channel - but that said, the D850 files responded to that even better.

 

[sh1209]

The workflow might just be different. At first, I seemed to find them just a little less flexible than the Nikon files, but anymore I hardly notice. I think I just sort of subconsciously adjusted my workflow a little. Sadly, I don't have a lot of specifics, but I can tell you a few things that come to mind.

First I find that, most of the time, my Sony files seem a little too warm. This is NOT 100% across the board (sometimes they are too cool as well), but it does seem to be the case more often than not. Having a color cast of any kind can make processing seem much more difficult than it is. Often, when I cool off a Sony file, I find the colors snap right in. I have also noticed the greens in Sony - especially the darker ones - are not as easy to manipulate. Sometimes, you have to do those a little more selectively. They like to "weirdly oversaturate" if that makes sense.

The other thing I notice is that getting a good white and bald point makes a noticeable difference too. Not that it doesn't help every file, but it seems more critical for the Sony files.

All that said, once I got used to the Sony files, it really wasn't a big deal and, for the most part, I really like the colors and overall appearance of the files once processed.

That’s interesting that you say that about the color tones, Because I noticed almost all files have a magenta tint to them no matter what the conditions. They just don’t seem to have the three dimensional pop that a Nikon or canon file has. I’m sure I will sort it out over time but it is sort of disturbing when you see the files after you’ve tried to edit them and they look no better than when you started lol. Nikon files and the colors are just so easy to manipulate and hone in on a good work flow. If you don’t mind me asking, whenever you import into Lightroom do you use any set color profile or do you use the camera profile?

 

[sh1209]

I also have the Z9 and the files from it seem to completely align with what I am getting in the Z7ii but might be a tad more sensitive to noise.

 

[lablover27]

After reading all this I’ve come to the conclusion I have no clue . However it is a great learning experience. I like Steve’s idea of posting some examples as those of us with less experience can learn from others. Has anyone created any camera specific color profiles using the data color spyder? I’m on the fence for getting a color calibration tool for my monitor and noticed the spyder also will do profiles for cameras as well. Not sure if calibrite is a better option. Look forward to reading more on this whole topic.

 

[sh1209]

Here’s an example from this morning. Just seems flat 2 dimensional.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[sh1209]

I’m going to take the A1 out tomorrow in single shot mode and take very meticulous photos in various lighting conditions of stationary objects. I think I just need to adjust my way of editing for these files and some controlled shooting should help.

 

[Palmor]

I’ve shot Canon (up to 5d II), Nikon (D500, Z6 and Z50), Panasonic (up to G9) and Sony (A1, A9II and A7c) and I really don’t do anything different between them. It could be I just don’t notice the differences and I’ve never done a side-by-side.

That being said I did recently purchase the Cobalt profiles for my A1 and I do like the colors they give in some of my images. Maybe that would be something to look into.

Edit: If you post up the RAW file I can process it through the cobalt profile and see if you like the output better.