Thom Hogan’s Official Z9 Review

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Steve communicates what's necessary to get the point across, sell products, and make a living. Thom has to do all of that plus convince us all how brilliant he is to feed his massive ego.

For example what's the point of spending so much time in his review explaining the technology and construct of the sensor? Most of us don't understand half of what he says nor do we care. Yeah, Thom, we get it. You used to work in Silicon Valley. We're impressed :rolleyes:
Must be why I have never read any of his stuff other than a short part of a shared tidbit here and there :cool:
 
I don't know if I would state that in total black and white but I certainly can see where he is coming from. Group AF on D500/D850 (and I would assume D6 is even more reliable and precise) is very effective and confidence inspiring. Wide Area is good but I just never felt the confidence in knowing exactly how it would behave as I had shooting Group AF.

On a slightly different note, my favourite AF mode for challenging BIF on the D500/D850 was Auto AF. I can say hands down, I trust Auto AF on the DSLR much more than AutoAF on the Z9.

Where the Z9 shines is very accurate AF (as do most/all MILCs) and when it does detect a subject, the full frame tracking of that subject and usually that subjects' eye.

All that said, I'd still choose the Z9 over a D6 or D500/D850.
I had D6, D500 and still hav D850 ... I essentially used two AF area modes single point and group 98% of the time in all 3. Group in D6 not better than group in D850 by itself, however D^ AF in general had faster acquisition with the same lens and held on to focus more doggedly. D850 just more versatile for what I shoot when it was going to be my only camera while waiting on Z9. However as time stretched on and I found a Z6II available and the Z100-400 suddenly popped up I added that for a backup and low light set up.
 
People may be interested in Thom’s official Z9 review. I found it to be informative and he certainly didn’t pull any punches.


I read his review thank you, its detailed that's for certain.
I respect Thom and his findings immensely.

Bottom line, i have said all along the the Z9 is good but is fruit that is still in need of ripening on the tree, as are the overall mirror less industry products.

I cant believe how Nikon can build a new mega expensive head office yet fall short on delivering the goods ( the Z6, 7, 9) that frankly is very simple to do properly in the first place, Nikon certainly have had the time to deliver a complete or better product than what they have, i mean the A1 certainly isn't hard to copy.
Unless Canon has the same dysfunctional political structure i am expecting the R1 to be amazing, i mean there are a lot of examples to piggy back on..

The one thing that is apparent is that the mirror less cameras have become extremely complicated to use, its a path more people seem to be less attracted to.

I am finding the Z9 is a very good camera but not quite perfect as promoted, that's no surprise, i still got one.
So far i like the speed, the tracking is only ok till challenged.

If i have to stop and think carefully to much about a sophisticated camera or critical settings or assigned presets at the expense of seeing or feeling what i want to capture............the joy becomes less.

I hardly use the tracking, I prefer the simplicity of the D850 D6., i mean mirror less tracking has its place but its limited, i don't rely on it, i prefer to be in control and shoot at what i point at, the speed is what i like at 45mp and that's about all so far.
I do miss group, and a dedicated exposure button, assigning to many features to different buttons is great yet can be tricky to remember, the margin for error is very huge.

Only an opinion
 
I cant believe how Nikon can build a new mega expensive head office yet fall short on delivering the goods ( the Z6, 7, 9) that frankly is very simple to do properly in the first place, Nikon certainly have had the time to deliver a complete or better product than what they have, i mean the A1 certainly isn't hard to copy.

easy. time to market. sophisticated software (and hardware systems) is not easy, nor fast to build.

a camera in the hand prevents loss of sales.

just because you see something, does not mean you can build it. it simply tells you that it can be built.

however, nikon’s catching up to this point shows us they are getting on top of the problem. remember to catch up you have to move faster than your opponent.

[Edit: also insert point here that in a variety of ways, Nikon is also finding their own way, not just following]

bottom line, do not underestimate the difficulty of the task.
 
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I read his review thank you, its detailed that's for certain.
I respect Thom and his findings immensely.

Bottom line, i have said all along the the Z9 is good but is fruit that is still in need of ripening on the tree, as are the overall mirror less industry products.

I cant believe how Nikon can build a new mega expensive head office yet fall short on delivering the goods ( the Z6, 7, 9) that frankly is very simple to do properly in the first place, Nikon certainly have had the time to deliver a complete or better product than what they have, i mean the A1 certainly isn't hard to copy.
Unless Canon has the same dysfunctional political structure i am expecting the R1 to be amazing, i mean there are a lot of examples to piggy back on..

The one thing that is apparent is that the mirror less cameras have become extremely complicated to use, its a path more people seem to be less attracted to.

I am finding the Z9 is a very good camera but not quite perfect as promoted, that's no surprise, i still got one.
So far i like the speed, the tracking is only ok till challenged.

If i have to stop and think carefully to much about a sophisticated camera or critical settings or assigned presets at the expense of seeing or feeling what i want to capture............the joy becomes less.

I hardly use the tracking, I prefer the simplicity of the D850 D6., i mean mirror less tracking has its place but its limited, i don't rely on it, i prefer to be in control and shoot at what i point at, the speed is what i like at 45mp and that's about all so far.
I do miss group, and a dedicated exposure button, assigning to many features to different buttons is great yet can be tricky to remember, the margin for error is very huge.

Only an opinion
There is not one camera perfect ,and that is why they keep coming with new ones and improving with the new technology. Of course, when we want more perfection and camera that excel in all kinds of photography, the handling and the setting of the camera become more complicated. But for those who want simplicity, they can use the camera with simple settings and they still can get beautiful photos. And for those who like more performance, they can get the settings they need.
Whether, it is Nikon, Sony or Canon, they all offer very good products for everybody.
 
easy. time to market. sophisticated software (and hardware systems) is not easy, nor fast to build.

a camera in the hand prevents loss of sales.

just because you see something, does not mean you can build it. it simply tells you that it can be built.

however, nikon’s catching up to this point shows us they are getting on top of the problem. remember to catch up you have to move faster than your opponent.

[Edit: also insert point here that in a variety of ways, Nikon is also finding their own way, not just following]

bottom line, do not underestimate the difficulty of the task.

Its always interesting to listen to different views, i guess that's how we learn.

Given Nikon is playing catch up and therefore its harder to get to where they are quickly is a good point, its also fair to assume in that they are guilty of falling so far behind in the first place ? with wrong priority's be it by choice or circumstance ?

Why may be asked, is it true that its believed that they let others develop and refine things on a regular basis with regular subsequent models and when at their peak Nikon simply rides on the back of competitors development adding some propriety changes and customization and market the hell out of it as being ground breaking, they know 90% of consumers believe what their told so why bother with the 10%.

I feel that Nikon has done a superb job of delivering the Z9 Z7II Z6II for what they are and they are great cameras, the larger mount size is clever and for good reason.
There are some other fine tweaks, above all they have developed really good video in the Z9.
Above all they have preserved their excellent image quality....................

I still feel while they have delivered a reasonably good camera they could have done so so much more and far better given the way has been largely paved for them, i do feel despite the supposed challenges its not that hard to get it right in the first place if you really want to.

Look at all the PC versions of desk tops with all in one super thin screen, how fast and well they matched up with Apple, i mean crudely put you largely buy what you want of a stock list in many situations but not all.

Nikon's delivery of the original Z6 Z7 was just pathetic. They have then released version II, and by today's standards with the Z9 and drill downs the Z6II Z7 II will soon be left behind.
I do personally think the Z6 II Z7II are excellent by the way, colour dynamic range image quality is superb as it is in the D850..sadly all have built in obsolesce factors being focusing system and Video.

Endless cycle..............

While not perfect the Z9 is very good, but by my standards i think a company like Nikon could have done a lot more, and much quicker, i also have to stay while i listen to others view points i still feel its not that hard to get things right in the beginning, really in today's world of technology and for runners.

There will be a Z9 II once the pipe line is largely filled, the landscape version will be out then as well.
One thing for certain prices will only go one way going forward especially in glass.

Margin is sanity, volume is insanity, in the market their in margin makes up for lost volume, the market is not the 60 and over anymore.

I do love the D850 D6, i really love the Z9 if used just like a camera in a less complicated way.
 
There is not one camera perfect ,and that is why they keep coming with new ones and improving with the new technology. Of course, when we want more perfection and camera that excel in all kinds of photography, the handling and the setting of the camera become more complicated. But for those who want simplicity, they can use the camera with simple settings and they still can get beautiful photos. And for those who like more performance, they can get the settings they need.
Whether, it is Nikon, Sony or Canon, they all offer very good products for everybody.


Like what your saying
 
Given Nikon is playing catch up and therefore its harder to get to where they are quickly is a good point, its also fair to assume in that they are guilty of falling so far behind in the first place ? with wrong priority's be it by choice or circumstance ?

I think they (and Canon) fell so far behind in mirrorless because they didn't know how to solve the fundamental problems of a performance mirrorless autofocus system based on image processing in a practical (ie, commercially viable) way in any near term sense.

You could consider this a failure in imagination, but I will submit that the problem is incredibly daunting. We talk casually about these systems without a realistic understanding of just how crazy hard of a problem it is.

Once Sony *showed* it was possible, Nikon and Canon not only realized it was possible, they realized it was necessary and they probably shifted from incremental approaches to "do whatever is needed' approach. If you look at Nikon, it meant building a new EVERYTHING. A new APPROACH, new sensor, new processor, and new software.

They have to do this while juggling lots of balls.

Why may be asked, is it true that its believed that they let others develop and refine things on a regular basis with regular subsequent models and when at their peak Nikon simply rides on the back of competitors

No offense, but this is bullshit. Sony showed everyone it was possible, but EVERYONE had to figure out how to build it themselves.

I still feel while they have delivered a reasonably good camera they could have done so so much more and far better given the way has been largely paved for them, i do feel despite the supposed challenges its not that hard to get it right in the first place if you really want to.

Everyone else's problems are "not that hard".

And keep in mind,

software evolves
 
So, right now I am on holiday in a nice boutique hotel in Amman Jordan. I've been on a photographic tour of the Middle East and now am just hanging in Jordan for 10 days before returning home.

I didn't bring my Z9, instead opting for a Z6ii and a Z7ii. This has allowed me to carry two bodies, but I was also worried about the problems (albeit rare) some are reporting with the shutter error...That would have been disastrous for me on this trip. As a side benefit of using these cameras in a more pressure-free mode than usual for me, where there are absolute demands to deliver images, I have had the freedom to learn how to use these cameras better. After more than a year of intensive, daily use, I still have more to learn about, and build trust in, these cameras. Imagine that applies in spades to the Z9!

I should say that, for my usual use cases, the Z9 has exceeded my expectations by solving my issues with rapidly changing compositions and capturing fast action, which is the main issue I had with previous Nikon Z cameras. In that sense, I am a happy camper with the Z9.

I read Thom's exhaustive review with interest and really like his suggestions for fixes. I agree with him that this long list of "what could be" diminishes the Z9 from being "great" to just being "excellent". So, I am fine with his merely "recommended" rating for the moment. If Nikon would get serious--and many of these fixes seem feasible with a software update--then surely we are talking about an "outstanding" camera with a "highly recommended" rating. They need to respond to Thom's (and others) suggestions, and they need to expand the training of the Z9's detection algorithms.

For the first time in a while I got the chance to go through the latest in the "Z9 Photo" thread. I just have to say that, despite all this fine criticism, the photo and video achievements there are outstanding and really, that's the bottom line.

So, Nikon got a lot right with the Z9...They are just a bit of firmware away from an outstanding camera with a "highly recommended" rating.
 
The mirrorless af book is almost updated. Right now, it’s 50 pages longer because of the z9 and I haven’t even done screenshots yet!
Steve, will we need to download the book again once you have completed the updates? Or, does it update our downloads automatically?
 
I have been working on my Z9 since I picked it up two days ago. I have been fairly busy setting up the Shooting banks and the Custom settings banks. That is of course made a bit more tricky by including four Recall Shooting Functions (slightly different for each bank).
The process is actually not that difficult. Getting my head around how ‘best’ to set each one up is the daunting part. I eventually made a table so I could write it all down because I needed to actually learn it before I can apply it. That may take some time.
I actually expect to spend several months fine tuning both my own processes when out with the camera and the way it is set up. One of the attractions of the Z9 for me is the flexibility.
I know it is possible to just go out and use the camera without doing much configuration but I am more than happy to take the time to work through all the options. The Z9 is however the biggest challenge in setting up a camera so far. The D500 was easy by comparison.
does any body have experience setting up recall functions to two buttons ( for me lens buttons ). so as to have for instance two fast shutter speeds 3200 and 2000 fps for BIF type shooting within the same shooting bank. I have found that my z9 will just recall the same set of settings on either button rather than two separate sets of settings ?
 
Unfortunately Nikon allows only 1 RSF setup in each Custom bank

does any body have experience setting up recall functions to two buttons ( for me lens buttons ). so as to have for instance two fast shutter speeds 3200 and 2000 fps for BIF type shooting within the same shooting bank. I have found that my z9 will just recall the same set of settings on either button rather than two separate sets of settings ?
 
does any body have experience setting up recall functions to two buttons ( for me lens buttons ). so as to have for instance two fast shutter speeds 3200 and 2000 fps for BIF type shooting within the same shooting bank. I have found that my z9 will just recall the same set of settings on either button rather than two separate sets of settings ?
Unless you have Easy Exp. Comp. turned on, Shutter Speed is on the rear dial.
 
Unfortunately Nikon allows only 1 RSF setup in each Custom bank
Wish I'd read this sooner. Spent half an hour of frustration yesterday fiddling with it frustrated that buttons weren't responding. Problem is that it will let you set up multiple buttons thinking you're setting each differently. Not so.
 
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