Thom Hogan’s Updated Wish List for Nikon

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JAJohnson said:
123 items now on the list. I wonder if suggestion saturation is near? It's probably a good idea to start thinking through your own top priorities from what's documented on the list.
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probably. he's also filtering suggestions. i had a variety of suggestions that seem feasible but that would be "major" new features and i notice none of those made it. my guess is this list he's trying to really cover stuff that he sees as ties up the expeed7 feature set and provides a nice clean, mature and usable feature set across the board for expeed7 based cameras.

while i wouldn't mind seeing some of my other suggestions on the list, i think it's a prudent move.
 
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John Navitsky said:
probably. he's also filtering suggestions. i had a variety of suggestions that seem feasible but that would be "major" new features and i notice none of those made it. my guess is this list he's trying to really cover stuff that he sees as ties up the expeed7 feature set and provides a nice clean, mature and usable feature set across the board for expeed7 based cameras.

while i wouldn't mind seeing some of my other suggestions on the list, i think it's a prudent move.
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He's been clear that the list is focused on "Z9 Generation" (Expeed 7) cameras, and things which can be feasibly accomplished via firmware. So, yes, he's filtering the list.
 
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The main issue for the Expeed 7 and certainly the Z9 is the balance of diminishing returns, what I mean by this is that a great deal of time and effort is required to get X function to work, the same applies to just how advanced the Expeed 7 is even now (given its age) how much effort is required, by hardware and software wise, to get a performance increase, without it adversely effecting on price.

Hopefully Nikon Japan will listen to Thom and others, and fingers crossed we see a V6 firmware later this year, but Nikon could equally be concentrating on an update body firmware?

Personally I get a bit tired of people asking for Pixel Shift in the Z9, I am lucky to have a Z8 as well (having sold off my Z7II which was a superb landscaping camera) I have used Pixel Shift and in all honesty found it to be a bit of a gimmick, better suited to low MP cameras but that’s just me.

Either way Nikon Expeed 7 users have all benefited in a way not seen in other camera manufacturers. Nikons dedication to firmware shouldn’t be taken lightly, it’s clearly very important to customers.

I don’t think I can remember a camera I like using more than the Z9 and Z8 apart from the Nikon F4 I owned that was a beast and pure design perfection….. anyway back to firmware 😂
 
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Almost all the requests in Thom's curated Wishlist are for additions/changes to controls and menu settings. The software updates are likely complicated, including testing and bug hunting but hardware demands appear to be minimal.

As already discussed, there's a subset of requests, which will entail menu redesigns. Nikon is less likely to go this far for firmware update.

RAW PreCapture is one of the few (in fact single) requests, which will increase demands on data processing.

It helps no one - Nikon especially - if Thom has blocked some of the more detailed/technical suggestions. This is particularly improvements to the scope of AF modes and functions, whit will improve more complex challenges of photographing active subjects. Pro Sports and also wildlife photographers will benefit, including when using AutoCapture

See above quoted list #26

Thom Hogan’s Updated Wish List for Nikon

Here's what I sent him: You've obviously given These much thought. Multiple Custom AF areas will be extremely powerful in certain situations, particularly an arena And also with AutoCapture setups. These caught my eye.... to Quote:- {Snipped....} Z9 Generation -- (Add new) Subject Detection...
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fcotterill said:
It helps no one - Nikon especially - if Thom has blocked some of the more detailed/technical suggestions. This is particularly improvements to the scope of AF modes and functions, whit will improve more complex challenges of photographing active subjects. Pro Sports and also wildlife photographers will benefit, including when using AutoCapture
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i’m hoping that the broader list isn’t dead, but he plans to forward them on in some other context, perhaps a private list

as speculated in this thread, it seems this exercise is intended to apply pressure on Nikon to clean up and align their Expeed7 range by explicitly and publicly describing what that would look like, and if that is the case, it could muddy the water to add features that would require significant new development

that said, yah, if the broader list goes nowhere, that would be a bummer
 
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John Navitsky said:
right, but i think he’s making a judgement call and reserving some things that probably could be done with expeed7. which, i think is reasonable.
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That's right...I sent him a few suggestions as well and few got added and few were excluded...like e.g. I requested for higher FPS in HE Raw modes, setting Subject detection, lock-on setting by each AF-Area mode, etc..that weren't included.

I'd be surprised if we get to see 5% from this wishlist materialize....remember Brad Hill did something similar after the Z9 launch, consolidating all the wishlists and sharing it with Nikon, very few made it to the final firmware...
 
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thelordofthelight said:
I'd be surprised if we get to see 5% from this wishlist materialize....
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I have no idea how many items on the list are feasible to add in firmware for the current generation of Expeed 7 cameras, nor how many Nikon will actually address before the next generation of cameras become available.

However, I think it’s a valuable exercise in requirements gathering based on needs & desires expressed by Nikon’s customers. Perhaps much of what’s on the list gets addressed eventually as the next generation firmware matures.
 
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JAJohnson said:
I have no idea how many items on the list are feasible to add in firmware for the current generation of Expeed 7 cameras, nor how many Nikon will actually address before the next generation of cameras become available.

However, I think it’s a valuable exercise in requirements gathering based on needs & desires expressed by Nikon’s customers. Perhaps much of what’s on the list gets addressed eventually as the next generation firmware matures.
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I think Thom would only send the ones that are doable with Expeed 7. I think he has filtered most, if not all that he thinks can be done with the existing processor. Even if he is to prioritize the current list of 120 and say shares the top 10 or 15, i will be happy if few of them are addressed.

You are right, Nikon has to ultimately know what customers want, that they can address in the next generation cameras. Things like improved FPS, AF performance etc. are pretty much guaranteed to improve with every iteration. To me, the biggest take away from this exercise is that most of the wishlist items can be broadly categorized under ”Better Customization” and if Nikon gets this message, that’d be awesome!
 
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thelordofthelight said:
I think he has filtered most, if not all that he thinks can be done with the existing processor. Even if he is to prioritize the current list of 120 and say shares the top 10 or 15, i will be happy if few of them are addressed.

... To me, the biggest take away from this exercise is that most of the wishlist items can be broadly categorized under ”Better Customization” and if Nikon gets this message, that’d be awesome!
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I agree!
 
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So realistically...will Nikon actually consider any of these suggestions (maybe this was addressed somewhere in the thread but I didn't read every post)? I'm legit curious as to whether Thom has that sort of relationship with Nikon, or if it's simply an academic exercise.
 
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Jbear said:
So realistically...will Nikon actually consider any of these suggestions (maybe this was addressed somewhere in the thread but I didn't read every post)? I'm legit curious as to whether Thom has that sort of relationship with Nikon, or if it's simply an academic exercise.
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Thom has a long relationship with Nikon. Will the suggestions he makes get consideration? I suspect he has a better chance of getting attention than most.
 
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Jbear said:
That's encouraging...I hope so, although I gotta say...I've always been pretty happy with Nikon stuff in it's original form. Still...I don't thumb my nose at improvements.
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The digital design of the Z9 generation of Mirrorless cameras has expanded the capabilities of how we can capture and process images. Consider the potentials of PreCapture; AutoCapture; unprecedented Frame Rates.....

These ILCs have the bare minimum of mechanical mechanisms and they're fully Networked into the www.

They're basically video recording devices, from which we can sample high resolution still content. All considered, the capabilities of these high performance MILCs has radically expanded the scope for their configuration and fine-tuned controls.
 
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We seen a number of firmware releases in the last few weeks covering mainly bug fixes, now the cynic in me (having seen this before) sees this as Nikon wanted to concentrate its camera software teams on other work?
 
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I just want to see my Z6iii get some great upgrades as it wasn't a dirt cheap beginner when I bought it and feel there are improvement which could be passed along to it that the Z8 and Z9 came with.
 
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Among the benefits of Thom's relationship with Nikon, is that he sometimes gets wind of products or upgrades in development before Nikon has made an public announcement. He's embargoed from publicly anouncing anything prior to Nikon's official unveiling but that doesn't prevent him from using that knowledge to guide which topics he discusses on his sites.

I doubt Thom would be going through this exercise unless he thought the odds at least 70/30 that Nikon is currently working on or at least planning to develop a major firmware update for the Z9, Z8, Zf and Z6III.

As for Nikon, I also suspect they monitor discussion of their products in forums like this. Steve's well-established with both Nikon and Sony as a photographer who puts gear from both brands to good use, who provides objective, reasoned feedback, and who has a following amongst other pros and enthusiasts.

Given all that, if Nikon has any interest in keeping their fingers on the pulse of the larger photography community, this is one of the forums it would make sense to keep tabs on.
 
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Re reading the latest edition, there are several categories of updates. The obvious sublist is for missing, replacing options for settings, Menu updates that Nikon has/had in its other ILCs.

Some of the generic Categories include:

  • AutoCapture - currently underrepresented in the list, it's probably missing some features. At least some of the requests by @John Navitsky are feasible, including a pair of discrete Custom Areas in a mode (list #26);

  • Display options of the EVF, Liveview, Playback - including for Grids, Indicator colours (including friendlier colour options for those with Daltonism) Zebras in stills etc;

  • Exposure: add Subject priority exposure, improved Auto ISO options, also VR updates

  • Files Types and Management - Missing file types, including options for at least some RAW categories in PreCapture;

  • Focus settings - add a new 3D Tracking [Hold] mode, Focus point VR, MF subject detection area etc. Ideally, sports and wildlife photographers need a pair of discrete Custom Areas in a mode (list #26);

  • Menus/Controls - eg Lens control ring assignments + button press

  • Shooting Banks - more definitive, fix the notorious glitches including Pairings, Save & Restore, better custom options to change banks with the command wheels;

  • RSF - destined (hopefully) to become more generic in scope (eg include options to configure Flash, Focus-Stacking; PreCapture....) Allow for multiple settings/Bank should be a fundamental option;

  • Multiple Exposures / Bracketing / Focus-Stacking / PreCapture - redesign to be more streamlined, and complete (Auto ISO options, include Shutter speed bracketing...). These subCategories can be less clumsy and restricted; incorporate updated flash settings. Focus-Stacking could be in a submenu in its own right, particularly as Mirrorless technology enables a richer scope of settings with faster frame rates, IBIS etc;

  • Video including Audio settings .....
 
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It's great to have that list because it shows there's a response, and also some work to do. It also summarizes all the problems.

But I think he should organize his wishlist in at least two parts:
  • fixes and minor changes (what's realistically possible)
  • major changes (what requires a more global approach and is a long-term project)
The bug fixes and minor changes should be the priority, unlike what he's trying to do now. Start small and efficient, then continue with more ambitious changes once the first step proves to be a success. That's also what they're more likely to accept.

For the 2nd part, I don't think he can just handle the list of items and forget about it. Pragmatically, that'll require a recurrent dialogue between Nikon and someone or a very little number of people representing the community. That's also the part I'm very sceptical about; I think they'll bow politely and take their leave as quickly as they can (and focus on video products), but who knows. He'd first have to severely cull that 2nd part and proceed by iterations.
 
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If Nikon is reading forums and prominent industry websites, they will have this list already and more.
Wild guess at a possible direct link to action..... The CEO of a prominent Nikon subsidiary is Keiji Oishi. Being hands on with RED, he's likely to often be in California, if not based there. He's been an outspoken proponent, if not the champion prioritizing the updates of firmwares....

Nikon Z9 + 4.1 Firmware: The New King Of Birding?

?! That just means the camera couldn't electronically read the focal length of the lens. This happens when I use some of my oldest manual focus lenses on modern cameras.
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