To "Z" or not to "Z"......?????

[Don'sPhotoStream]

First, your old primes are going to work well on the Zs - it's the best camera for old primes since you have focus peaking and magnification options in the viewfinder - manual primes have never been easier to focus. Plus, you'll have some degree of in-body image stabilization with them as well (not the full 5 axis, but you'll still have some stabilization).

As to the other challenges, it's tough. None of your choices are bad, although I don't know that I would want to use a D750 over a D850 - there's less than a 0.4 pound difference in weight and significant differences in technology. I don't know that I'd go that route.

The D780 is interesting though - it would give you the Z6 sensor and better low light capabilities than you have with the D850. Video is outstanding too. The AF system isn't as good as the D850, but it doesn't seem like you really need those capabilities. Still though, the weight savings over the D850 isn't huge (about what you'd have with the D750).

I think if weight is the primary concern, one of the Z cameras are really the best choice here.

Another thought is to get a first generation Z camera. They use the same sensors as the II versions, so no loss in IQ. Their performance capabilities are more than adequate for landscape work and the price is far easier to swallow. Heck, you can probably land a used one pretty soon for less than $1000. Just a thought.

Your advice is excellent, Steve... practical and Informative !!

 

[Rodamu]

I had looked only at the Z mount DX lenses--there are only two. The number of Z mount FX lenses has rapidly increased and improved in quality as a new S line series is entering the market.

 

[flyguy]

This has been a most informative thread. THE challenge is making a choice and having the ca$h to follow through on my decision. Camera wise it is between the newly announced Z6 II and the D780. Or.....I have wanted a Nikon 28mm f/1.4 prime for a long time; 28mm being my favorite focal length for a wide angle prime (had a 20mm and did not care much for it). The other lens options is a Nikon 14-24 f/2.8 which I got to try on my D7100...an interesting combination. It would be an easier decision had Nikon not priced the D780 where they did. On the other hand does the FTZ adapter really deliver??? I already have two thirds of the Nikon trinity.

 

[AJMac]

Well regardless of the negative press surrounding alleged shortfalls of the Z6 ii I have preordered it and am really excited about transitioning to mirrorless. Just because it may not have the absolute top performing AF system certainly doesn’t mean you won’t capture great images. I used the original Z6 for a while on load from the local camera store and did struggle a bit initially, however after experimenting and then fortunately coming across Steve’s post it dramatically increased the keeper rates. There is no substitute for getting to know the intricacies of that camera and learning how best to use it for your individual purpose.

 

[ccirelli]

Well regardless of the negative press surrounding alleged shortfalls of the Z6 ii I have preordered it and am really excited about transitioning to mirrorless. Just because it may not have the absolute top performing AF system certainly doesn’t mean you won’t capture great images. I used the original Z6 for a while on load from the local camera store and did struggle a bit initially, however after experimenting and then fortunately coming across Steve’s post it dramatically increased the keeper rates. There is no substitute for getting to know the intricacies of that camera and learning how best to use it for your individual purpose.

I'll leave a tip here that helped me tremendously during my transition from DSLR to mirrorless - there's a feature (which is on by default) that activates the monitor automatically, if your eye is not up near the EVF. I turned this OFF - so the monitor actually behaves more like a DSLR's. So now, it only turns on when I click the Info, Menu, or Image Review buttons (or I activate it for viewfinder shooting). I'm not sure why (DSLR muscle memory?), but not having that monitor on all the time really helped me.

There's a handy button on the left side of the EVF that toggles the monitor modes as well. I have my modes limited to "Automatic display switch" and "Prioritize viewfinder" (you can limit modes in the Setup menu), so I don't have to cycle through the other 2 modes I never use. Hope this helps! The Z6 ii looks phenomenal!

 

[flyguy]

Thanks. This is exactly what I want/need to make an informed decision....reality based/hands on feed back and suggestions from actual users.

 

[Rodamu]

I'll leave a tip here that helped me tremendously during my transition from DSLR to mirrorless - there's a feature (which is on by default) that activates the monitor automatically, if your eye is not up near the EVF. I turned this OFF - so the monitor actually behaves more like a DSLR's. So now, it only turns on when I click the Info, Menu, or Image Review buttons (or I activate it for viewfinder shooting). I'm not sure why (DSLR muscle memory?), but not having that monitor on all the time really helped me.

There's a handy button on the left side of the EVF that toggles the monitor modes as well. I have my modes limited to "Automatic display switch" and "Prioritize viewfinder" (you can limit modes in the Setup menu), so I don't have to cycle through the other 2 modes I never use. Hope this helps! The Z6 ii looks phenomenal!

That feature of showing the photo you just shot in the viewfinder was driving me crazy when I was trying to capture moving objects especially. Fortunately I found how to turn it off. Note that the viewfinder (on the Z50 at least) doesn't show true color; this took a little time to adjust to.

 

[Anjin San]

I had the D7500 for about 12 months, after more than 4 yrears with the D7200, and used BBF exclusively and it never changed. I was pretty much exclusively M and rarely A or S and never P.
I sold it in favour of the Z6, and am amazed by how good the Z is. But also, I’ve never seen BBF being reset. It sounds strange, so now I’ll definitely go and test this tomorrow.

Thanks...I only noticed it happening if I use the U modes...on the 7500 I have one set for wildlife and the other set for waterfalls with bracketing, low ISO, and other moving water settings. Switching to A or Auto with a pass through Off results in shutter button focus until I select U mode again. Strangely enough...I just did a second test and with a U1 which puts in BBF...then Off, Auto, and On results in both BBF and shutter button focus being active at the same time...which isn’t a bid deal as my wife doesn’t use U modes but I do. If you could store BBF in a U setting, then experiment with various combinations of mode both with and without the power cycling...we can figure out exactly how it works with the Z.

 

[flyguy]

A secondary question on the Z Nikons............battery life. How has that been? I have a D850; battery life specs are superior to what is published by Nikon in the tech specs for the D850 vs the Z6 II.

 

[ccirelli]

A secondary question on the Z Nikons............battery life. How has that been? I have a D850; battery life specs are superior to what is published by Nikon in the tech specs for the D850 vs the Z6 II.

The Z6 battery / shutter activation counts are way off. I think Nikon has them around 310, but many people get 800-900 (including me). This can also vary greatly depending on how much time is spent in the menus, reviewing images, and shooting with the monitor on, etc. My D7200 battery life was greater but really no complaints with my Z6 (I have 2 batteries, I rarely run a full battery down in a typical outing). The Z6&7 ii (and Z5) comes with the EN-EL15C battery which has an even higher capacity.

 

[Demodave]

As to battery life, my record so far is 1900+ images with the Z6 in one outing. Not chimping, not using the menus, Just shooting....

 

[flyguy]

Don't know where I saw the reference but someone mentioned Steve had a post that talked about ten benefits of mirrorless camera system; I would greatly appreciate that link, I am doing as much research as I can before making a potential jump to a Nikon Z system.

 

[Steve]

Don't know where I saw the reference but someone mentioned Steve had a post that talked about ten benefits of mirrorless camera system; I would greatly appreciate that link, I am doing as much research as I can before making a potential jump to a Nikon Z system.

here ya go:

Top 10 Mirrorless Advantages

 

[flyguy]

Thanks, Steve. On another note, does IBIS perform as advertised in a Z camera? My 24-70 f/2.8 Nikon is a non VR iteration.

 

[flyguy]

Looking for input on video from a Z body......what lens did you use, zoom or prime, please.

 

[Steve]

Thanks, Steve. On another note, does IBIS perform as advertised in a Z camera? My 24-70 f/2.8 Nikon is a non VR iteration.

Looking for input on video from a Z body......what lens did you use, zoom or prime, please.

IBIS is pretty good IMO. It seems as good as in-lens VR to me.

For our videos, we've been using the 70-200 2.8 (F-mount for now, I haven't had a chance to get the one for the Z mount). It really works out well for our videos, it's insanely sharp, looks great, and having the zoom makes it very flexible.

 

[Anjin San]

so first I saved my setting to the card, then I RESET the z6
on switching on, I (1) set a7 to OFF / AF-ON Only / Disable
This essentially is turning on BBF and not using the shooting button to focus.
then (2) set P mode and saved to U1, (3) switched to A mode and saved to U2, and finally (4) switched to S mode and saved to U3

switching between. modes and U1, U2 and U3.....the camera remained in BBF

switching so S mode, switch off the camera, select U3 then switch on...
switch to P mode switch off, rotate to U1 and switch on...
switch to U1 switch off, rotate to U2 and switch on...
rotate to U3 switch off, rotate to M switch on...

at all times after switching on, th ea7 setting remained OFF ie BBF was still set.

I was not able to see a combination that switched off BBF.

I also tried
RESET
set to M mode
set a7 to A-ON Only/Disable (BBF only)
saved to U2 and u3
set a7 to Shutter/AF-ON
save to U1 (ie shutter release can focus)
now in M , P, A and S focus is by shutter release, U2 and U3 are only BBF

I could not find any way switching on or off, and changing modes, when off, changes BBF settings.

Thanks Patrick. Try going to U, then off, select Auto, and on...that makes the 7500 switch out of BBF for me, and then it stays out of BBF until I select U again.

 

[Anjin San]

yes I did that and no, the Z6 was still in BBF
1. set BBF, saved to U1...3 , switched to U1 then Off. set the camera to Auto, turned on and check ... all BBF ok
2, set BBF and saved to U1...3, in M set to shutter release, changed back to U1 then Off. set to Auto, turned on. Now in Shutter release. switching to M, shutter release (as expected) while U1..3 all remain with BBF. so yes. interesting.

after this is set M to BBF, set u1 and turned it off. set to Auto sonf turned on. BBF is set.
I also checked ....P,A,and S all in BBF as well.

So when the camera is Off, setting Auto and turning on the shutter release is whatever M was at when the camera is switched off. U1...3 no change to their saved value.

Thanks...guess the Z is different. If you’re not already bored with this testing ...can you try storing BBF in one U mode and shutter button AF in another and seeing what happens. Based on your previous tests...I’m guessing that using those 2 U modes will shift back and forth between BB and shutter AF and that once a particular focus type is set switching between auto, P, S, A, and M will retain that focus setting as long as you don’t select the BBF U mode.
im going to buy my wife a Z50 anyway...just trying to figure out if I will be able to set it to my BBF preference and back to shutter AF easily.

 

[ccirelli]

I’m guessing that using those 2 U modes will shift back and forth between BB and shutter AF and that once a particular focus type is set switching between auto, P, S, A, and M will retain that focus setting as long as you don’t select the BBF U mode.
im going to buy my wife a Z50 anyway...just trying to figure out if I will be able to set it to my BBF preference and back to shutter AF easily.

Correct - the Z50 will retain BBF settings in U modes (as will the Z6 (and 7)). P, S, A, and M are essentially one "mode" together (setting changes / button assignments hold throughout all 4). So, you can have U1 set to Manual / BBF (for you), and U2 set to Aperture Priority / Release AF-ON (for your wife). Super easy.

I just gave my wife my D7200 when I got my Z6. Even easier.

 

[Anjin San]

Correct - the Z50 will retain BBF settings in U modes (as will the Z6 (and 7)). P, S, A, and M are essentially one "mode" together (setting changes / button assignments hold throughout all 4). So, you can have U1 set to Manual / BBF (for you), and U2 set to Aperture Priority / Release AF-ON (for your wife). Super easy.

I just gave my wife my D7200 when I got my Z6. Even easier.

Thanks…I'm upgrading my wife from her hand me down 7100 to a Z50, which I'll be "testing" for her and was trying to figure out whether I would have to keep resetting the AF stuff after every test. Me…I'm going to upgrade from my D7500 to probably a Z7II assuming the BIF/action AF performance is up to it…the Z6 doesn't have enough pixels on target with the same lens as the D7500 so I'll need the 7 to not lose from that standpoint. If the AF isn't up to snuff for action/BIF I don't know what I'll do…might get the Z6II instead in that case but that means I'll have to carry two cameras anytime there is action or birds in the offing…and since one of my goals is to carry less weight on the hike carrying 2 is going the wrong direction.

Decisions…decisions. Having thought about this in detail…if I was willing to spend 25K or so…I could solve a lot of my imaging problems…but that makes no sense for my amateur needs.

 

[ccirelli]

I went from the D7500 cropped to the full frame Z6. Wonderful upgrade. I didn’t understand your “pixels on target” comment.

I think he means shooting DX mode on a full-frame 24.3mp Z6 yields about a 10.3 mp image (essentially we're just cropping in-camera) - vs a 20.9mp image on the APS-C D7500. Of course going to full-frame, we lose that 1.5 crop factor (and some "reach" on our lenses).

The Z7 (or Z7ii) would get back those "lost" megapixels, since shooting in DX would yield a 19.5mp image.

 

[flyguy]

Stopped at a local camera store late afternoon; had a D750 in one hand and a Z6 in the other, for size and weight comparison sake. Requested that the sales person attach a Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 non VR to the Z6; the combination both looked good and felt good and balanced. When I asked about IBIS, was told it would not help that combination. Before leaving I encountered a photography buddy at the same store, I told him about the IBIS info I had just gotten. My buddy was chatting with a different sales person; I asked that person about IBIS and the 24-70 f/2.8 non VR, he told me IBIS will help. So which is it??? Will IBIS on a Z body with FTZ adapter give me anything with my 24-70 non VR attached???

 

[Anjin San]

I went

I went from the D7500 cropped to the full frame Z6. Wonderful upgrade. I didn’t understand your “pixels on target” comment.

Looking at the comparison...

Nikon D7500 vs Nikon Z6 Detailed Comparison

Read our detailed comparison of the Nikon D7500 vs Nikon Z6 to find out their strengths and weaknesses, and decide which one to choose.

cameradecision.com

By Pixels on Target (or subject I guess is more precise…when moving your existing lenses from DX to FX bodies you lose the crop factor magnification so that the actual pixels vertical and horizontal on the bird/elk/whatever go down…which lowers the detail in your final image…assuming the DX and FX bodies are the same (or almost the same) MP. That's what I have against the Z6II…for the next year or two I'll be using my existing lenses, particularly my Tamron 150-600…and I don't want to lose IQ on the subject. With the Z7II higher MP sensor…the additional pixels on the sensor almost exactly counteracts the loss of DX crop factor magnification so the detail on the subject isn't lost. One concern with going to the higher MP Z7 sensor is that the individual sensor pixels are just about the same size as those on the DX sensor…and this means that a lot of the "lower noise on FX due to larger sensor pixels" advantage isn't there anymore…sensor pixels of the same size generate the same amount of noise per pixel regardless of how many sensor pixels there actually are.

From a detail on the subject aspect…it seems to me that a similar size MP FX is worse off than the same MP DX assuming the same lens is used on both…although if I'm incorrect I'm quite willing to be educated…to keep the same amount of subject detail with FX you need more MP…and that forces the sensor pixel size to the same range as the DX body which means you lose the noise advantage. So from that standpoint…going to FX seems to be counter-intuitive unless you also go to the higher MP sensor to counteract the loss of DX crop factor magnification.

Does that make sense? As I said…I'm just applying what I think I know but I may be out to lunch for all I know…it's happened before

 

[Anjin San]

I think he means shooting DX mode on a full-frame 24.3mp Z6 yields about a 10.3 mp image (essentially we're just cropping in-camera) - vs a 20.9mp image on the APS-C D7500. Of course going to full-frame, we lose that 1.5 crop factor (and some "reach" on our lenses).

The Z7 (or Z7ii) would get back those "lost" megapixels, since shooting in DX would yield a 19.5mp image.

Yup…I wouldn't be shooting in DX mode with the FX body…just using the same lens that I have now on the DX body. For wide to medium telephoto it's not really a big deal as one can zoom with feet to some extent…but for distant wildlife or BIF subjects getting closer just because I'm using a FX now isn't really going to work…I'm already getting as close as possible. In that case…putting the same lens on an FX vice DX body means that with the loss of the 1.5x extra focal length factor then a same/similar MP on FX actually provides less detail on the subject/bird/elk/whatever.

 

[Steve]

Stopped at a local camera store late afternoon; had a D750 in one hand and a Z6 in the other, for size and weight comparison sake. Requested that the sales person attach a Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 non VR to the Z6; the combination both looked good and felt good and balanced. When I asked about IBIS, was told it would not help that combination. Before leaving I encountered a photography buddy at the same store, I told him about the IBIS info I had just gotten. My buddy was chatting with a different sales person; I asked that person about IBIS and the 24-70 f/2.8 non VR, he told me IBIS will help. So which is it??? Will IBIS on a Z body with FTZ adapter give me anything with my 24-70 non VR attached???

IBIS will operate with the non-VR lens. Here's an excerpt from my Nikon AF book for mirrorless (there's a lot more in the book, but this should give you a good idea). Scenario #2 is yours.

(Note - in the first three scenarios, VR is menu-driven.)

Scenario # 1 - Z-Mount Lenses Without VR

If you have a native Z-mount lens without built-in VR, you’ll have full five-axis IBIS available (menu-driven).

Scenario # 2 - Adapted Lenses Without VR.

If you’re mounting a non-VR enabled lens, you’ll have three-axis IBIS available (yaw, pitch, and roll - one more axis than we had with regular in-lens VR. All menu driven).

As a side note, another thing to love about IBIS is that it breathes modern VR features into old glass. You could have an antique, manual focus Nikkor sitting in your bag that was born long before anyone had ever considered VR - and yet when you hang it off your Z camera (via the FTZ adapter), it’s stabilized. This opens up countless possibilities for using older lenses hand-held - scenarios we scarcely dared dream just a few years ago.

Scenario # 3 - Z-Mount Lenses With VR

If you have a native Z-mount lens with VR, you’ll have full five-axis VR available (menu-driven). Pitch and yaw from the lens, the rest from IBIS. For the Z50, you simply have standard in-lens VR.

Scenario # 4 - Adapted Lenses With VR

If you’re mounting a VR enabled lens, you’ll have three-axis VR available with the Z6/7. The lens will provide pitch and yaw compensation; the sensor provides roll. The Z50 only has normal, in-lens VR.

Note that unlike the first three scenarios, if you have a VR switch on the lens, the system is NOT menu-driven anymore. The lens controls all VR functions - the VR menu won’t do a thing for you.