Totally Confused Nikon Z8

[John Navitsky]

We are spending our children's inheritance

inheritance is wasted on the young

 

[BlackRockArt]

We are spending our children's inheritance

If you don't spend it on yourself, the government will take 60% off happily ~

Oliver

 

[MMoretti]

We are spending our children's inheritance

I just traded mine, but I had to put up a little cash. Wish I’d waited for the 600 PF though…

 

[pnbarne]

Ralph shared the same approach that I used. There are a lot of options on the Z8 that I am rarely, if ever, going to use so I don’t worry about them.

 

[rjpawl]

We must respect their dedication to still wanting to learn new things at their age, and they would share some of their knowledge and wisdom.

Saaayyyyy...I resemble that remark!

 

[Viathelens]

We are spending our children's inheritance

I don't want to be the richest person in the graveyard (I actually read that here from someone else!). I've taken that saying to heart, and my daughter-in-law will spend it all anyway after I die so I might as well spend it now...going to the South Pole next week for three weeks. Life should be an adventure, including the adventure of buying new photography gear.

 

[AprilInA2]

I comes four letters before M in the alphabet.

I love you! Such a wiseguy

 

[EileenMJ]

I follow photographer Nancy Elwood. Love her! When someone gets the z9 or z8, she ALWAYS says "congragulations. Be patient, the learning curve is 6-12 months!" I'm very "techy" and have found this to be true.

 

[Image 1]

I share your pain. I recently bought a Z8 to upgrade from my beloved D850. I’m 75 yrs old, been a lifelong Nikon shooter for 55 yrs, and discovered that I was intimidated by the Z8 and after the first couple of tries with the Z, I actually got frustrated trying to first understand and then absorb all of the available options and continued using my 850’s for several months after receiving the Z. I kept telling myself that until I mastered the Z, I couldn’t trust using the new gear for important shoots. I rationalized that I could shoot with my D850 in my sleep. Pure muscle memory. No stopping to remember how to change focus point, AF, modes, or anything else. No remembering what customized function button did what. No thinking about anything at all other than composition.

I am scheduled to shoot a USTA tennis tournament in a couple of weeks and decided that it was nothing short of stupid to not use a camera that is reputed to excel at AF of of fast moving subjects, after all, I bought the Z precisely because of its ability to do sports and active wildlife. So I mounted my new Z70-200/2.8 on my Z8 and went out to get “comfortable “. I am pleased to report that it wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought. I share your thinking that the Z8 is really a supercomputer masquerading as a camera since there are all sorts of outright new buttons, many more customizable function buttons and many more options that are not found on my 850’s.

What I did was rather than trying to memorize all of the new capabilities, I would simply learn how to accomplish what I could do with the 850, burn in the muscle memory, and then SLOWLY begin to explore the hundreds of bells and whistles to see which ones might help me shoot better. The best example that I can give you is the various AF functions. I was excited to read about the Z6’s apparent ability to find, lock on and track fast moving subjects (programmable to distinguish between human eyes, animal eyes, cars, and other things) which for a sports shooter approaches the holy grail. And the ability to select all sorts of different focus areas (wide, large, small,yadda yadda is highly touted. But I just couldn’t remember the seemingly 50 different AF functions,let alone which button was assigned to what program. So I simply reverted back to learning how to accomplish the basics like single point, group points and other options I was already familiar with. I learned how to change AF-S to AF-C and how to toggle between single point and simply group points. Sort of like configuring my Z to act like my D. Guess what? Even without all of the new improved capabilities, the Z did all the basic stuff better than the D and,even more exciting, the Z24-70/2.8 and the Z70-200/2.8 and the Z100-400/f56 were noticeably sharper and punchy that my tried and true DSLR versions. Wow!

I am now tackling how to use the eye lock on capability which is nothing short of remarkable. When shooting tennis, where backgrounds are closer to players than on a football or soccer field, I try to shoot at 2.8 to soften the bokeh, but nailing eye focus with single point or group while at 2.8 ain’t that easy. With eye lock, it’s a game changer. DOF is still something I need to be conscious of, but I’m finding that eye tracking makes wide open shooting a reality. And 20fps for action or wildlife is also something to behold.

Bottom line is I’m beginning to really appreciate what this “computer” can do. It’s uncanny. BUT - there are still some problems for me. There are just too many options in every section of the menu for my 75yr old brain to retain. Sure, I can try them all out on Monday with Steve’s indispensable ebook in front of me and marvel at just what the Z can do, but by Tuesday I can’t remember how to engage/unengage the option or what button/front wheel turn/back wheel turn does what. There is no chance that I will be able to digest and become adept at using probably 25-30% of what can be done. (Sort of like my Photoshop capabilities - even when I was younger, I probably was fluent in maybe 40% of what PS wizards can do.

So don’t let the complexity of the Z8 frighten you. It will take some work, but it a terrific piece of gear.

BTW - I rambled off topic of Imenu. I like it. I have been using some small, light weight Sony mirrorless cameras for several years and while Sony menus are not easy to use, Sony does have a button that aggregates a dozen key adjustments (programmable) to be displayed with one touch. This is what the Z info button does. It is a one button push for display quick adjustments on the fly. Easier than the old dslr “my menu”.

Lastly, there are a couple of non-positives about the Z8 compared to 850.

- it is not a lightweight camera. No meaningful benefit over 850.
- really hard to get used to EVF. While I love the fact that it’s wysiwyg showing you in the viewfinder, tweaks you make to exposure, dof,etc, I still have to remind myself that if you put the cam up to your eye, you see nothing until you hit shutter or bbf.
- 20 fps is great when shooting sports. The bursts almost look like a slow mo video, but I’m gonna need a lot more CFE cards and sorting the pics in post is gonna be a *****.
- and biggest nit, which is what I stressed above, is that there are so many freaking options that I cannot conceive of anyone remembering them all or remembering how to engage or disengage. Even worse, the lenses all have more function buttons than the dslr lenses did and even if remember them, no 2 lenses have the same buttons.

Probably TMI for you, but for what it’s worth, I’m getting a second Z8, because switching between the dslr and mirrorless is hopeless.

Very helpful. Thanks. I too switched from a D850 to a Z8. Same issues.

 

[Dmacfarl]

Wow - that’s kind of condescending, isn’t it? For the record, what you suggested doing “first” is exactly what I explained that I did. Initial set up was done to mimic the 850 and progress from there. My problem wasn’t setting up the Z. I followed Steve’s suggestions. My problem was understanding and remembering what the functions did and where the engage/disengage switches were parked . I’m 75 and may have lost a step, but I’m not stupid.

Hi I’m 71 and went from a D500 to the Z8. I am a seasoned “enthusiast “ - not a pro. I agree that the camera is a bit overwhelming at first but your point about PS is bang on. Even Excel can do more than multiply and subtract ! Your approach is pretty much mine. Get set up comfortably and then investigate the potential. Steve’s books, as well as Hudson Henry ‘s You Tube videos are invaluable to get started. Have fun !

 

[JAJohnson]

Thanks all for your help.

I think that I should have waited until I have my new Z8 in hand before starting my reading.Tis one of my traits however that I like to be pre prepared (in whatever venture personal or professional) in most of my undertakings.

My journey with Nikon DSLRs started with the D70 then onto the D200, D800, D810, D850 paired with the D500. I didn’t find adjusting (with the help of Steve & Thom) to any of these bodies daunting and that is due I think to the fact that each body in many ways simply built on their predecessors so the learning curve for me wasn’t steep.

The Z system ( and mirrorless in general) however seems to be a quantum jump from DSLR technology. Not so much in the hardware but more so the ‘software’ or more correctly the Firmware and it’s customization.

Another issue as others have alluded too is what we refer to ‘Downunder’ as being an Old Fart ( not sure if that term translates across cultures but Google it if you need to know its meaning ). I have just turned 70 and that can have memory implications. Don‘t be tempted to misinterpret this as my memory is a1 for most things however trying to remember what button/dial combination does what is a little more daunting at 70 than it may have been at 25.

Another Old Fart Issue is being locked into the past, locked into various belief systems and refusing to accept change ( in whatever area) and refusing to explore new areas of technology or new social norms. I took a decision to not let this happen to me so I deliberately and methodically explore and listen too differing opinions about many things and to (where I can) explore new technology. Hence the Z8.

So after my long winded reply I am still waiting for my new Z8 with bated breath and enthusiasm and will act on the advise to take it one step at a time.

Again many thanks for your help.

Stay safe & well.

I’m not sure where you’re located, but if you’re within a reasonable driving distance from a Nikon retailer, I’m certain one of their staff can help you with the transition. You’re not the only person who’s felt some intimidation with the switch. But with some in-person setup guidance and a bit of practice, I think you’ll get up to speed quickly.

Happy shooting with your Z8!

 

[JacobGM]

Hi all.

I have just ordered a Z8 to replace my D850 and have started some pre reading including Steves Z8 & Z9 Setup Guide For Wildlife Photography to get some idea on setup & usage.

Unfortunately, at the moment I am thinking I have just made a mistake and have ordered a rather complex super computer rather than a camera.

That notwithstanding can people clarify the difference between the i Menu and My Menu please?

They seem to fulfill a similar if not the same function: that is providing shortcuts to frequently used menu items.

Thanks in advance.

Hello, Paul,
In a nutshell…

• I-Menu is a grid (on the touchscreen) of 12 most useful functions.
• My-Menu is a list of functions you find most useful in one common list (saves you from having to navigate the menu structure).
• Both are 100% customizable.
• iMenu is accessed via the iButton.
• MyMenu can be assigned to one of the customizable buttons of your choice.

The Z 8 is daunting to set up if you get in to all the nooks and crannies of the menu, but I have been using it straight out of the box on Manual, and changing the auto-focus modes as needed using the front button (at front left bottom, it’s default allocation). I’m gradually adjusting the menu on-the-fly as I see fit. I did try doing it big-bang, but discovered that I may need at least an associate degree in computer science to do it justice! But I love the feel. I’ll be enjoying the process of picture taking as well as customization for a great long time, with my “Zeight”.

 

[JacobGM]

I just reread my reply and I probably should have broken it up into separate posts. Sorry all!

Not at all, Sir! Totally enjoyed your take on how you transitioned to the new system.

 

[JacobGM]

Guy

I’m not sure where you’re located, but if you’re within a reasonable driving distance from a Nikon retailer, I’m certain one of their staff can help you with the transition. You’re not the only person who’s felt some intimidation with the switch. But with some in-person setup guidance and a bit of practice, I think you’ll get up to speed quickly.

Happy shooting with your Z8!

True! A lot of local camera stores, too, have folks who use the Z8 and will be willing to offer some assistance.

 

[Cameron T]

Guy

True! A lot of local camera stores, too, have folks who use the Z8 and will be willing to offer some assistance.

Yep. Camera/photography clubs are another good option.

 

[JacobGM]

I don't want to be the richest person in the graveyard (I actually read that here from someone else!). I've taken that saying to heart, and my daughter-in-law will spend it all anyway after I die so I might as well spend it now...going to the South Pole next week for three weeks. Life should be an adventure, including the adventure of buying new photography gea

Enjoy your polar expeditions! I hope we get to see your pictures!

 

[Fishboy1952]

I made the transition from the D850 to a Z9 last year at the age of 70. I picked up the camera at my local brick and mortar store but it stayed in the box for about 10 days. I spent that time going over Steve’s e books on the mirrorless AF system for Nikon as well as the Z9 setup guide. Shooting wildlife, especially BIF on the D850 had been pretty simple. My default AF mode was Group with Single Point on the Fn1 button, allowing an easy transition for perched to BIF.

With the Z9’s myriad of modes, I knew I couldn’t just jump into the deep end of the pool, so I set it up similar to the D850. I selected Wide Large as my default with 3D on Fn1 and single point on Fn2. Subject detection was enabled. With this setup, while not exactly like the D850, it was close enough that I adapted to it fairly well. I was probably only using about 25% of its capabilities but I soon became comfortable. After that I slowly began to explore the other options that I have available with it.

After a year it’s a lot more straightforward. Being what I shoot is still pretty much wildlife, I still spend quite a bit of time in Wide Large, Small, C1/C2, and 3D. But I’m not adverse to trying different modes depending on the situation. I believe it’s like eating an elephant. You can’t do it all at one, I least I can’t. You have to do it one bite at a time. And I’m still learning, especially with the frequent firmware updates. Just some ideas.

Don’t get discouraged, it just a matter of practice. YMMV.

 

[John Woodworth]

Thanks all for your help.

I think that I should have waited until I have my new Z8 in hand before starting my reading.Tis one of my traits however that I like to be pre prepared (in whatever venture personal or professional) in most of my undertakings.

My journey with Nikon DSLRs started with the D70 then onto the D200, D800, D810, D850 paired with the D500. I didn’t find adjusting (with the help of Steve & Thom) to any of these bodies daunting and that is due I think to the fact that each body in many ways simply built on their predecessors so the learning curve for me wasn’t steep.

The Z system ( and mirrorless in general) however seems to be a quantum jump from DSLR technology. Not so much in the hardware but more so the ‘software’ or more correctly the Firmware and it’s customization.

Another issue as others have alluded too is what we refer to ‘Downunder’ as being an Old Fart ( not sure if that term translates across cultures but Google it if you need to know its meaning ). I have just turned 70 and that can have memory implications. Don‘t be tempted to misinterpret this as my memory is a1 for most things however trying to remember what button/dial combination does what is a little more daunting at 70 than it may have been at 25.

Another Old Fart Issue is being locked into the past, locked into various belief systems and refusing to accept change ( in whatever area) and refusing to explore new areas of technology or new social norms. I took a decision to not let this happen to me so I deliberately and methodically explore and listen too differing opinions about many things and to (where I can) explore new technology. Hence the Z8.

So after my long winded reply I am still waiting for my new Z8 with bated breath and enthusiasm and will act on the advise to take it one step at a time.

Again many thanks for your help.

Stay safe & well.

I think you are on the right track. Reading ahead of time will give you ideas about the capabilities of the Z8, but of course will also raise questions.

Set your Z8 up like your D850. Shoot some. At some point, something in the back of your mind will say "I thought I read somewhere that there was a better way to acquire focus here", or something to that effect, and the game is on.

Good luck...And come back and share your images.

 

[Paul T]

I’m not sure where you’re located, but if you’re within a reasonable driving distance from a Nikon retailer, I’m certain one of their staff can help you with the transition. You’re not the only person who’s felt some intimidation with the switch. But with some in-person setup guidance and a bit of practice, I think you’ll get up to speed quickly.

Happy shooting with your Z8!

Living in Swansea, New South Wales Australia a little village/town located some 130klms (80 miles approx) north of Sydney. There are a number of Nikon retailers down there but a little too far to drive just for a Z8 setup lesson. I like your idea though so next time I go down for other reasons I will contact a retailer and see if they would take me through the setup as suggested.

 

[Paul T]

Hello all just an update.

I now have my Z8 in hand and starting to get a feel for it. Jumping between Steve’s’ book and the Nikon Z8 Reference Guide I am developing a ‘feel’ for its setup possibilities. I am much more comfortable now with the camera in my hand and now understand the difference between the i Menu and My Menu. I think once I have the i Menu setup to my liking I will use it more than My Menu.

I have had one ‘practice’ shoot with it using the AF area modes and am quite pleased at the results. Still a long way to go though.

There is one issue I am finding a little annoying and that is the fact that the dials and buttons I have become very used to on the D850 and the D500 have been moved or deleted. In Thom Hogans’ words they have “moved the cheese”. Therefore my ‘old fart’ muscle memory has to forget the old and learn the new positions and new actions. Oh well helps to keep the fog away from my cognitive capacity.

I am currently using the 500mm f/5.6 with the ftz adapter and very pleasantly surprised at how well it performs even though I have heard of similar experiences from other users with the same setup. Unfortunately however I now have a terribly persistent lust for the 600mm f/6.3 PF. Bloody photography will send me broke.

Once again thanks for all of your help.

Stay safe and well in this uncertain world we are currently living in.

 

[DRwyoming]

There is one issue I am finding a little annoying and that is the fact that the dials and buttons I have become very used to on the D850 and the D500 have been moved or deleted. In Thom Hogans’ words they have “moved the cheese”. Therefore my ‘old fart’ muscle memory has to forget the old and learn the new positions and new actions. Oh well helps to keep the fog away from my cognitive capacity.

Yeah, I know what you mean about relearning muscle memory. On the plus side I think the newer button placements are an improvement over some of the DSLR layouts but it does take time to relearn where you'll quickly find a control button in dynamic situations.

Enjoy the new camera.

 

[MattOZW]

I share your pain. I recently bought a Z8 to upgrade from my beloved D850. I’m 75 yrs old, been a lifelong Nikon shooter for 55 yrs, and discovered that I was intimidated by the Z8 and after the first couple of tries with the Z, I actually got frustrated trying to first understand and then absorb all of the available options and continued using my 850’s for several months after receiving the Z. I kept telling myself that until I mastered the Z, I couldn’t trust using the new gear for important shoots. I rationalized that I could shoot with my D850 in my sleep. Pure muscle memory. No stopping to remember how to change focus point, AF, modes, or anything else. No remembering what customized function button did what. No thinking about anything at all other than composition.

I am scheduled to shoot a USTA tennis tournament in a couple of weeks and decided that it was nothing short of stupid to not use a camera that is reputed to excel at AF of of fast moving subjects, after all, I bought the Z precisely because of its ability to do sports and active wildlife. So I mounted my new Z70-200/2.8 on my Z8 and went out to get “comfortable “. I am pleased to report that it wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought. I share your thinking that the Z8 is really a supercomputer masquerading as a camera since there are all sorts of outright new buttons, many more customizable function buttons and many more options that are not found on my 850’s.

What I did was rather than trying to memorize all of the new capabilities, I would simply learn how to accomplish what I could do with the 850, burn in the muscle memory, and then SLOWLY begin to explore the hundreds of bells and whistles to see which ones might help me shoot better. The best example that I can give you is the various AF functions. I was excited to read about the Z6’s apparent ability to find, lock on and track fast moving subjects (programmable to distinguish between human eyes, animal eyes, cars, and other things) which for a sports shooter approaches the holy grail. And the ability to select all sorts of different focus areas (wide, large, small,yadda yadda is highly touted. But I just couldn’t remember the seemingly 50 different AF functions,let alone which button was assigned to what program. So I simply reverted back to learning how to accomplish the basics like single point, group points and other options I was already familiar with. I learned how to change AF-S to AF-C and how to toggle between single point and simply group points. Sort of like configuring my Z to act like my D. Guess what? Even without all of the new improved capabilities, the Z did all the basic stuff better than the D and,even more exciting, the Z24-70/2.8 and the Z70-200/2.8 and the Z100-400/f56 were noticeably sharper and punchy that my tried and true DSLR versions. Wow!

I am now tackling how to use the eye lock on capability which is nothing short of remarkable. When shooting tennis, where backgrounds are closer to players than on a football or soccer field, I try to shoot at 2.8 to soften the bokeh, but nailing eye focus with single point or group while at 2.8 ain’t that easy. With eye lock, it’s a game changer. DOF is still something I need to be conscious of, but I’m finding that eye tracking makes wide open shooting a reality. And 20fps for action or wildlife is also something to behold.

Bottom line is I’m beginning to really appreciate what this “computer” can do. It’s uncanny. BUT - there are still some problems for me. There are just too many options in every section of the menu for my 75yr old brain to retain. Sure, I can try them all out on Monday with Steve’s indispensable ebook in front of me and marvel at just what the Z can do, but by Tuesday I can’t remember how to engage/unengage the option or what button/front wheel turn/back wheel turn does what. There is no chance that I will be able to digest and become adept at using probably 25-30% of what can be done. (Sort of like my Photoshop capabilities - even when I was younger, I probably was fluent in maybe 40% of what PS wizards can do.

So don’t let the complexity of the Z8 frighten you. It will take some work, but it a terrific piece of gear.

BTW - I rambled off topic of Imenu. I like it. I have been using some small, light weight Sony mirrorless cameras for several years and while Sony menus are not easy to use, Sony does have a button that aggregates a dozen key adjustments (programmable) to be displayed with one touch. This is what the Z info button does. It is a one button push for display quick adjustments on the fly. Easier than the old dslr “my menu”.

Lastly, there are a couple of non-positives about the Z8 compared to 850.

- it is not a lightweight camera. No meaningful benefit over 850.
- really hard to get used to EVF. While I love the fact that it’s wysiwyg showing you in the viewfinder, tweaks you make to exposure, dof,etc, I still have to remind myself that if you put the cam up to your eye, you see nothing until you hit shutter or bbf.
- 20 fps is great when shooting sports. The bursts almost look like a slow mo video, but I’m gonna need a lot more CFE cards and sorting the pics in post is gonna be a *****.
- and biggest nit, which is what I stressed above, is that there are so many freaking options that I cannot conceive of anyone remembering them all or remembering how to engage or disengage. Even worse, the lenses all have more function buttons than the dslr lenses did and even if remember them, no 2 lenses have the same buttons.

Probably TMI for you, but for what it’s worth, I’m getting a second Z8, because switching between the dslr and mirrorless is hopeless.

I’m 73 and share your pain ! The i menu allows the KISS principle to be applied.

 

[MMoretti]

Yeah, I know what you mean about relearning muscle memory. On the plus side I think the newer button placements are an improvement over some of the DSLR layouts but it does take time to relearn where you'll quickly find a control button in dynamic situations.

Enjoy the new camera.

I’m going through the D850 to Z8 transition now (though keeping the former) in my mid-60s, barely a week after it landed on my porch. It‘s definitely a leap, though much of the new functionality is comfortably buried in the familiar, yet widened, menus. Physically, my main observation is the transition of the Playback button from upper left to lower right, replaced by the Key button which I’ve mapped to My Menu, and the AF mode button from 3 o’clock at the lens mount to lower side of the body. I’ve mapped that to the Video button, following Steve’s guidance in one of his videos. Other than that, I’m pretty much okay with things, helped in great part by living two-plus years with my Z7 in my adaptation to this new juggernaut. I like the feel in my hands and the weight, somewhat different yet reminding of my D850. Time will tell if this will offer up any confusing moments in use. Funny how what they say about this new beast is so similar to what they were saying about the D850 when it debuted what, five years ago now? The two bodies are clearly first cousins, the D now treated like a boomer (like me), the Z as, appropriately, Gen Z. (Can’t wait to show the kids how it’s done!)

 

[Viathelens]

Hello all just an update.

I now have my Z8 in hand and starting to get a feel for it. Jumping between Steve’s’ book and the Nikon Z8 Reference Guide I am developing a ‘feel’ for its setup possibilities. I am much more comfortable now with the camera in my hand and now understand the difference between the i Menu and My Menu. I think once I have the i Menu setup to my liking I will use it more than My Menu.

I have had one ‘practice’ shoot with it using the AF area modes and am quite pleased at the results. Still a long way to go though.

There is one issue I am finding a little annoying and that is the fact that the dials and buttons I have become very used to on the D850 and the D500 have been moved or deleted. In Thom Hogans’ words they have “moved the cheese”. Therefore my ‘old fart’ muscle memory has to forget the old and learn the new positions and new actions. Oh well helps to keep the fog away from my cognitive capacity.

I am currently using the 500mm f/5.6 with the ftz adapter and very pleasantly surprised at how well it performs even though I have heard of similar experiences from other users with the same setup. Unfortunately however I now have a terribly persistent lust for the 600mm f/6.3 PF. Bloody photography will send me broke.

Once again thanks for all of your help.

Stay safe and well in this uncertain world we are currently living in.

You should have a lust for the 600PF, it's a great lens. I, too, shoot with a Z8 and was using the 500PF, which I also loved. But I'm lovin' the 600PF more! Congrats, have fun.

 

[JoelKlein]

I love this line:
eating an elephant…