Tripod upgrade for 600mm f/4?

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MikeA

MikeA

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I am thinking of up grading the no name tripod I hardly ever use, because it is no longer easy to hand hold my new (used) 600mm with my D850. I would need something lighter I could take with me on hikes or flight trips and also use close to ground level if necessary. I like birding, so I expect I will need a Gimbal head. Do you have any suggestions? Please bear with me as I am afraid this might have already been asked for.
 
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MikeA said:
I am thinking of up grading the no name tripod I hardly ever use, because it is no longer easy to hand hold my new (used) 600mm with my D850. I would need something lighter I could take with me on hikes or flight trips and also use close to ground level if necessary. I like birding, so I expect I will need a Gimbal head. Do you have any suggestions? Please bear with me as I am afraid this might have already been asked for.
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Light enough for hikes, easy to travel with and sturdy enough for a 600mm f/4 is a tough call not even getting into the price issue.

FWIW, I've long used Gitzo 5 series tripods for my 600mm f/4 lenses with or without a 1.4x TC attached. These days that's fitted with a Flexshooter Pro head but I used that for years with Wimberley full gimbal heads. That setup isn't light or easy to hike with but it's rock solid when shooting such a heavy lens.

I shoot shorter lenses, landscapes and the like with a Gitzo 3 series tripod with a RRS BH-55 ball head and in a pinch or when traveling lighter I've used it to support my 600mm f/4. It can work, is certainly strong enough in the sense that I'm not worried about it unduly flexing or collapsing under load but I'll typically shoot higher shutter speeds and take more insurance bursts to ensure keepers as the setup just isn't as solid and vibration free as the bigger series 5 tripod. I've captured many sharp images with this setup but the heavier tripod is definitely nicer to work with and more stable in field use with big and heavy lenses.

But neither of those are really suitable for long hikes up into the mountains and I wouldn't really want to carry either all day long or on backpacking trips but for a few hours of work and maybe a couple of miles of walking each way they're not crazy heavy. I do have a much smaller and lighter Velbon El Carmagne 540 that I have carried on long hikes and backpacking. This still isn't tiny but is much smaller and lighter than those mentioned above. I've actually used it with my 600mm f/4 a few times and though it supports the weight safely it is much more prone to vibration issues and when I use it with the big glass I think of it more as supported hand holding or how I might think of monopod shooting rather than as a rock solid tripod that lets me get away with slower shutter speeds. It's pretty good for landscape or astro photography especially if I hang my backpack or other weight from the tripod for added stability but with the big glass it's just not nearly as vibration free as the bigger tripods.

To me the bottom line is that if you just want to take the weight of a big lens and want something more hands free than a monopod a lighter and smaller tripod can work. But if you're after rock solid stability and the ability to push your shutter speeds much lower when subject motion is minimal (e.g. owls at twilight) then the bigger tripods have a substantial advantage. Similarly shorter tripods can work but if working on hillsides or shooting up towards a nest a tall tripod makes working much more pleasant and can help increase keeper rate. So finding the holy grail of small, light (and ideally less expensive) while still getting the most out of long heavy glass is a really difficult thing if not impossible. So you sort of have to decide which tradeoffs you're willing to make.
 
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DRwyoming said:
Light enough for hikes, easy to travel with and sturdy enough for a 600mm f/4 is a tough call not even getting into the price issue.

FWIW, I've long used Gitzo 5 series tripods for my 600mm f/4 lenses with or without a 1.4x TC attached. These days that's fitted with a Flexshooter Pro head but I used that for years with Wimberley full gimbal heads. That setup isn't light or easy to hike with but it's rock solid when shooting such a heavy lens.

I shoot shorter lenses, landscapes and the like with a Gitzo 3 series tripod with a RRS BH-55 ball head and in a pinch or when traveling lighter I've used it to support my 600mm f/4. It can work, is certainly strong enough in the sense that I'm not worried about it unduly flexing or collapsing under load but I'll typically shoot higher shutter speeds and take more insurance bursts to ensure keepers as the setup just isn't as solid and vibration free as the bigger series 5 tripod. I've captured many sharp images with this setup but the heavier tripod is definitely nicer to work with and more stable in field use with big and heavy lenses.

But neither of those are really suitable for long hikes up into the mountains and I wouldn't really want to carry either all day long or on backpacking trips but for a few hours of work and maybe a couple of miles of walking each way they're not crazy heavy. I do have a much smaller and lighter Velbon El Carmagne 540 that I have carried on long hikes and backpacking. This still isn't tiny but is much smaller and lighter than those mentioned above. I've actually used it with my 600mm f/4 a few times and though it supports the weight safely it is much more prone to vibration issues and when I use it with the big glass I think of it more as supported hand holding or how I might think of monopod shooting rather than as a rock solid tripod that lets me get away with slower shutter speeds. It's pretty good for landscape or astro photography especially if I hang my backpack or other weight from the tripod for added stability but with the big glass it's just not nearly as vibration free as the bigger tripods.

To me the bottom line is that if you just want to take the weight of a big lens and want something more hands free than a monopod a lighter and smaller tripod can work. But if you're after rock solid stability and the ability to push your shutter speeds much lower when subject motion is minimal (e.g. owls at twilight) then the bigger tripods have a substantial advantage. Similarly shorter tripods can work but if working on hillsides or shooting up towards a nest a tall tripod makes working much more pleasant and can help increase keeper rate. So finding the holy grail of small, light (and ideally less expensive) while still getting the most out of long heavy glass is a really difficult thing if not impossible. So you sort of have to decide which tradeoffs you're willing to make.
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Thank you very much, a lot to think about and no easy answers and as always the task to find a best compromise.
 
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I’m not qualified to talk about brands except the one I own which is a Pro Media gear TR34 and gamble head by the same. This is the only quality one Ive ever had.
The quality is outstanding. Truly buy once, cry once, they are pricy. It will last me the rest of my life or as long as i can carry it.
Typically 1-4 mile trips once Im out of the vehicle. I swap shoulders a lot, lol. I really like the set up under the lens coat lens hide blind.
It is a carbon tripod so that helps keep the weight down but it adds up. Big weight difference between the 500PF and no tripod and the tripod, gimble and exotic prime.
 
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NatureBoy said:
I’m not qualified to talk about brands except the one I own which is a Pro Media gear TR34 and gamble head by the same. This is the only quality one Ive ever had.
The quality is outstanding. Truly buy once, cry once, they are pricy. It will last me the rest of my life or as long as i can carry it.
Typically 1-4 mile trips once Im out of the vehicle. I swap shoulders a lot, lol. I really like the set up under the lens coat lens hide blind.
It is a carbon tripod so that helps keep the weight down but it adds up. Big weight difference between the 500PF and no tripod and the tripod, gimble and exotic prime.
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Do you have a TR34 with 3 or 4 sections or the L version? That sounds like a great tripod and somewhat portable.
 
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The Flexshooter Pro Head seems to be a good compromise in weight and performance. Combined with a TR34 not exactly a light combo but maybe the best considering the options for the 600 FL?
 
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Look for tripods with a 2-3 times load capacity of the lens with a camera as they will have less flexing of the legs. If the collapsed length is 22 inches or less it will fit readily in the overhead bins of most aircraft.

I take my lens and camera off the tripod when moving about and have them attached with the foot to the Arca-Swiss compatible Kirk Photo Security Strap (sold by B&H). I find it much easier on my body than having the tripod and head and lens and camera carried on my shoulder.
 
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For my 600F4 with any of my bodies D4,D850 or the Z9 my setup is a Really Right Stuff tripod with a Wimberley full gimbal head. My only regret is I wish that I had gotten a longer/taller tripod for those times you are on a hill side or shooting up.
 
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fulltimewanderer said:
For my 600F4 with any of my bodies D4,D850 or the Z9 my setup is a Really Right Stuff tripod with a Wimberley full gimbal head. My only regret is I wish that I had gotten a longer/taller tripod for those times you are on a hill side or shooting up.
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Do you have the ultralight version of the rrs tripod?
 
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ever thought of using a monopod instead of a tripod? Depends on your style of shooting but my view is that a monopod gives you much more freedom and mobility vs a tripod. If you like to move around I'd recommend a monopod.
I do use a 3 segment gitzo carbon monopod series 4 combined with a wimberley mh100 mono gimbal head - easy to carry around for extended times and quick to setup / move on.
 
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FWIW....I use the RRS TVC 24 Tall with a Wimberley head. But it is heavy......the tripod is about 3.7 lbs.....the gimbal is 3.4 lbs. A lighter gimbal would be very, very nice.
 
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MikeA said:
Do you have a TR34 with 3 or 4 sections or the L version? That sounds like a great tripod and somewhat portable.
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Hi, I have the 4 section. I manage with it. I like the sturdiness of it with a big lens.
I think it’s all about compromising the best we can. Trying to keep weight down but wanting something sturdy and solid.But truth told, it can be a pain lugging everything around but thats what it takes sometimes. Just like getting up at 0400 is a pain but…thats how we get the pics!
 
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Thank you everyone for all your help and advice - as always no easy decision and no silver bullet for all my wishes. I guess I will sleep it over and order my compromise this weekend. I have to figure out what priorities are most important for me, that will make deciding easier. What was important for me was the keeper rate diagram from Steve comparing hand held, mono and tripod and that better pictures is the real first priority.
 
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Without having read all of the thread first, I just throw my 2 cents in. If weigt and size is an issue, think about forgetting the Gimbal and take a Flexshooter. I have replaced my Gimbal some time ago and didn't regret it a single second, instead I had to ask myself why I haven't changed earlier.
 
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I don't have anything to add on the tripod but will comment on the gimbal. I replaced my Wimberly two or three years ago with a Jobu Jr 3. Saves about 1.5 lbs without giving up the gimbal. Jobu only rates it for 10lbs but I bought mine because a friend with a 600m f4G was using it. She's had it all over the world including Antarctic and high arctic Alaska/Canada without issue. I've used mine with D5/500mm f4, Z9 180-400mm f4, and Z9/800PF. I have no regrets buying it. Smaller, lighter, mobetta.
 
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The tripod I use when shooting with a 500mm f4 on a wimberley gimbal head is a Induro GIT404L Grand Series 4 Stealth Carbon Fiber Tripod. It is rated to support 66 lbs. Now that Induro is owned by Benro I am not sure if it is still being made.

I doubt if its specs will meet all of your requirements. I bought it to replace my Gitzo series 3 carbon fiber tripod.

Just make sure any tripod you are considering has legs long enough to meet your needs. And if you are shooting in a blind, try not to extend the smallest in diameter leg sections.


 
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NorthernFocus said:
I don't have anything to add on the tripod but will comment on the gimbal. I replaced my Wimberly two or three years ago with a Jobu Jr 3. Saves about 1.5 lbs without giving up the gimbal. Jobu only rates it for 10lbs but I bought mine because a friend with a 600m f4G was using it. She's had it all over the world including Antarctic and high arctic Alaska/Canada without issue. I've used mine with D5/500mm f4, Z9 180-400mm f4, and Z9/800PF. I have no regrets buying it. Smaller, lighter, mobetta.
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Wow, that really looks cool and is something to consider! Thx! A lot of weight saving!
 
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fulltimewanderer said:
And some of us slow learners it might take 2 or 3 cheaper tripods to learn. Ask me how I know. If I would’ve bought the RRS first I would’ve spent less than the cheap ones.
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I am not thinking of cheap - I can afford something more expensive - I am only asking, what is the best combination of not too heavy but still sturdy.
 
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