Trouble with Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8E FL ED VR

[MartyD]

Your testing certainly seems sound and if you found +15 at 200mm and the photos you uploaded were set at +10 I would certainly expect the lens to perform better. I looked at the elephant photos and LR shows the lens was focused at infinity on all of them. It seems like it must be an issue with the camera and lens combination, as someone else suggested it might be an issue with the mount. Since you use BBAF is it possible the button on your D500 is not working correctly?

 

[Kemble Widmer]

Your testing certainly seems sound and if you found +15 at 200mm and the photos you uploaded were set at +10 I would certainly expect the lens to perform better. I looked at the elephant photos and LR shows the lens was focused at infinity on all of them. It seems like it must be an issue with the camera and lens combination, as someone else suggested it might be an issue with the mount. Since you use BBAF is it possible the button on your D500 is not working correctly?

BBAF all perfect with all other lenses and my D500; and all other lenses' performance consistent with my AF testing- they work great when my AF testing shows they should, and bad when they don't (somewhat validating my AF testing). So yeah, just this lens; and like you say perhaps it's some bizarre mount issue between only the D500 and this lens; but I'm still betting on the lens is just a lemon. In any event will ask to send my D500 in (already sent lens in for the 3rd time).

On the elephants: my LR shows 70mm focal length, and my "show focus point" plugin has the focus right on the lead elephant eyes/head. Judging from the grass it looks as if it's back focused by a loooong way, but bizarre to me how far it's off...... where in LR did you see the lens "focused at infinity"; can't seem to recreate that....

 

[MartyD]

where in LR did you see the lens "focused at infinity"; can't seem to recreate that....

In the LR library module the focus distance is listed in the Metadata below the focal length.

Here is another thought....Is it possible the M/A, A/M, M focus mode switch on the 70-200 is malfunctioning. It seems like the lens isn't even trying to focus at times.

Sorry you are having this frustration, the lens really is behaving strangely.

 

[BlackRockArt]

BBAF all perfect with all other lenses and my D500; and all other lenses' performance consistent with my AF testing- they work great when my AF testing shows they should, and bad when they don't (somewhat validating my AF testing). So yeah, just this lens; and like you say perhaps it's some bizarre mount issue between only the D500 and this lens; but I'm still betting on the lens is just a lemon. In any event will ask to send my D500 in (already sent lens in for the 3rd time).

On the elephants: my LR shows 70mm focal length, and my "show focus point" plugin has the focus right on the lead elephant eyes/head. Judging from the grass it looks as if it's back focused by a loooong way, but bizarre to me how far it's off...... where in LR did you see the lens "focused at infinity"; can't seem to recreate that....

Kemble,

I have gone through the photos you shared, from the look of it, the lens didn't focus plane totally missed the objects. I assume you have tried the same 720 lens on another camera body, if the same focusing issue appears, then it *might be* a faulty PCB board inside the lens.

Many years ago for some odd reason, the 720 AF-S lens had a faulty design where some components holding the PCB board would fail & slip after a few years, it was a common repair.

I have not used the 720VR II version, but per everybody's suggestion, IF you can get sharp photos in MANUAL FOCUS mode with VR off, then it could be the VR part.

Good luck getting finding out the issue.

Oliver

 

[MartyD]

Here is another thought. The 70-200 FL has a focus function button selector that could also be causing an issue. The selector switch can be set to program the lens function buttons to focus, lock focus, or off. Off doesn't stop auto focus it turns the button off. It might be an issue with the buttons that is causing such wild focusing variations.

 

[Wes Peterson]

What are the odds you are accidently holding the lens by the focus ring?

 

[Wes Peterson]

I looked at the photos using NX Studio. The images look like there is considerable back focus but the AF Fine Tune is set to +10 which would move the focus away from the camera. Some of the images were taken in manual focus mode.

Manual focus mode being reported would suggest a bump of the focus ring is putting it in manual override.

 

[Kemble Widmer]

Thanks, but yeah not the issue. My shots typically on beanbag, hands not near focus ring.
Marty rightly pointed out one sequence of a kudu that I had not noticed was in manual. All others in autofocus (hundreds and hundreds) per metadata.

 

[Wes Peterson]

Every one of those photos is back focused yet you have a +10 setting in af fine tune. I would ignore whatever testing you are doing and set the af fine tune to 0 and see what happens. If its happening consistently for you but not at all for Nikon then its not likely an issue with the lens. I would expect the issue to present itself instantly to the Nikon tech if it was the lens.

 

[MrFotoFool]

This is my favorite and most used lens. I bought it refurbished (along with refurbished D850) about five years ago and no issues with sharpness or anything else. I have never done focus calibration on this or any lens I have owned (either Nikon mount or before that Canon mount) and have never needed it. Either I am really lucky with my lenses or I am not as particular as some of you (perhaps both). In any case, it sounds like you just happened to get a bad sample of the lens and I agree with you Nikon should replace it. I also agree with others they will need to see the lens AND the camera to make a determination. If they are not helpful, it might be worthwhile to pay a little to have a reputable independent repair shop check it out? I have a very good relationship with my local shop (Tucson Camera Repair) and I know they will check whatever I ask and give me honest feedback.

 

[John Navitsky]

What are the odds you are accidently holding the lens by the focus ring?

it wasn't until mirrorless with the focus peaking highlighting activated that i realized how easy it is to do this. i've found it was prudent for me to change how i handle the lens as a result.

 

[John Navitsky]

Thanks, but yeah not the issue. My shots typically on beanbag, hands not near focus ring.
Marty rightly pointed out one sequence of a kudu that I had not noticed was in manual. All others in autofocus (hundreds and hundreds) per metadata.

personally after seeing what i've seen with focus peaking, i'd be concerned if the beanbag was touching the focus ring at all.

 

[Wes Peterson]

personally after seeing what i've seen with focus peaking, i'd be concerned if the beanbag was touching the focus ring at all.

It certainly doesnt take much. question is does the camera then report the AF mode as manual when the shot is taken?

 

[BlackRockArt]

Thanks, but yeah not the issue. My shots typically on beanbag, hands not near focus ring.
Marty rightly pointed out one sequence of a kudu that I had not noticed was in manual. All others in autofocus (hundreds and hundreds) per metadata.le

Cross check the camera and lens with another Nikon D500 & 720 lens should pin point the problem, also, if it's a lose cable or PCB board, the problem can be inermittent. That's when diagnostic becomes difficult.

Oliver

 

[Kemble Widmer]

Regarding the theory it’s the focus ring being bumped by the beanbag:
- metadata for hundreds of impacted photos show it’s in autofocus (with the sole exception the kudu photo, which indeed showed manual, probably bumped focus ring on that one).
- while on safari (or Yellowstone or elsewhere) beanbag is my most used setup, but i have many photos shot by hand and on tripod: same result
- back or front focus testing (on a tripod of course) shows a range of +15 to -12 across focal lengths. That large a range is unworkable, unless you “give up” on one end of the lens, which for a top of the line lens (or any lens) is unacceptable. I have no other lens with a gap larger than 3 across focal lengths, including my 14 year old 55-300 i spent the money for this lens to replace.

I do thank all for the input, all input valuable, and as a result of this discussion I sent my D500 in to be tested with the lens, and will report back.

 

[Replytoken]

I do thank all for the input, all input valuable, and as a result of this discussion I sent my D500 in to be tested with the lens, and will report back.

I know it is a PITA to do, but it will hopefully bolster your case and if it is the lens and not something else, I hope they do give you a new copy as a replacement.

Good luck,

--Ken

 

[DAB250]

I tried to insert NEF image using the "insert image" icon here but it says "file type invalid". Is there a trick to share NEF?

 

[dabhand16]

Yep convert to jpg and size it ti the forum size.

 

[Patty]

As for servicing, and the camera shop told me this too, Nikon will not just replace anything until you've sent lens or camera etc. back to them at least three times. Also it helps if they can replicate the problem. I bought a brand new Z7II and had problems with it freezing up. I sent it to them three times before they replaced it. Their best guess was that one of the batteries was bad. Unfortunately they swapped out parts on the camera before they tested the batteries so they decided to replace the camera. All that to say is that you have to be extremely patient as it will take quite a while before they will decide to replace the lens. I'm not sure if going through the camera shop you purchased from or dealing with Nikon directly is better. My inclination is going through the camera shop/dealer where you purchased the lens as they could test it themselves and verify the problem. I know this doesn't help resolve your situation but just wanted to relate my experience dealing with Nikon service/repair. Please keep us up to date as I'm curious how they treat you.

 

[Bob Hullinger]

I upgraded all my Nikon lenses to their top of the line products in 2021, including their f2.8 70-200, after years of great service from multiple older Nikon lenses. Photos were soft with the 70-200 (tack sharp with f2.8 17-55 and f4 180-400 TC), and in my autofocus fine adjustment testing, it required +18 to -2 at different focal lengths (20 adjustment gap), so I sent it in for servicing in Aug 2021. Received it back, tested it, and gap was down to 9 (not great), so I tried it on safari. 90% of photos were blurry throw aways, yet when I would switch to my f4 180-400 TC for the same scene, same focal length, pics were tack sharp. So, I sent the lens back to Nikon to service a second time, asking customer service to be SURE they tested AF throughly before sending it back. They sent it back saying it was all good, and when I tried it photos again were soft. I performed another test, and the adjustment gap across focal lengths was up to 27 (!). I called to ask for a replacement, and Nikon is stating they will test it again and send back if it tests well. My problem is, clearly Nikon’s testing is not picking up whatever is wrong with this lens. It never worked, and still is bad after two separate servicings as evidenced by simple autofocus testing. From reviews, clearly this is normally a great lens. I sent it back a 3rd time, imploring Nikon NOT to send it back a 3rd time, but rather replace it. That is where things stand today.
I spend a fortune (like everyone who does) to go on African safari a couple times a year, and simply cannot bear the thought of taking this lens only to have 90% of photos blurry throwaways again.
What do you experts think, or anyone experience something similar?
Given what I spend with Nikon, and given servicing has failed twice, I cannot comprehend how they would not replace it at this point……

I'm not an expert but I know one thing with certainty. There is no Nikon conspiracy to get you. Regardless of how much you paid for the items they sold you, Nikon's goal is to sell more cameras and lenses.

Here's a few questions I would ask about your issue. The first is are you sending your camera or cameras along with the lenses? If you are a professional, do you routinely send all your work lenses along with the camera when you have them serviced and calibrated to ensure consistency between them given the vast difference in results and the importance of the work that you cite? I'm not a pro and don't send everything together but have chatted with professionals who do.

When I do send in the camera I use the most for cleaning and service the next time, my workhorse lenses that I use the most will be making the trip with them to be cleaned and matched to my cameras by a professional and not simply returned to factory tolerances that simply do not work the same on every body.

Have you used the lens you are having difficulty with another body or better yet on several other bodies to make sure the camera isn't the problem? Does it fail on several cameras of just the one you personally calibrated?

These first two LensRental blog posts address and offer possible solutions to the issue you describe:

"This lens is soft" and other myths

One of the most common examples of anti-logic we see at LensRentals is the statement The lens is soft/front focuses/back focuses. Now don’t get me wrong, there are bad copies of lenses out there, as best we can tell ranging from 3% to 7% of lenses. And we know, despite our checkout procedures...

www.lensrentals.com

Month: March 2010

Photo/video thoughts from the largest rental house

www.lensrentals.com

Roger Cicala is a real life lens expert. This is an example of what he does for a living:

Removing a Fly from ‘Weather Sealed’ Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II

I've been doing lens stuff for a long time now. Long time. Trust me; it's hard to remain polite the 843,911th time some newbie goes into hysterics because there's dust in their lens. Telling them it doesn't matter a bit, and that all their other lenses have dust they just can't see ( because...

www.lensrentals.com

Even a dead fly didn't make the lens soft.

If you don't believe what's he's written or said in his blog articles regarding your issue I have another suggestion. Call Lens Rentals and ask to talk to him or one of the other real experts there. They have always been very friendly and open every time I have ever called them with questions. They also service and repair lenses everyday so they aren't guessing when they offer solutions. Lens Rentals is a very friendly and open group of people.

The blog panels include some of the leading experts in the world of lenses and cameras.

Good luck. I hope things work out well.

 

[jpawlan]

I too have a 70-200mm f/2.8E FL ED VR. I used it very extensively in Kenya in 2019 and the use, dust and vibration made it less than perfect so I sent it to Nikon. I included the complete data from testing with Reiken Focal Pro on two DSLR F bodies: an 850 and a D5. They replaced parts and completely adjusted it. The results were excellent. I now use it with an FTX adapter on my Z9. I used Reiken Focal Pro to set the fine focus adjustment for that body. It is so sharp that I do not need to consider getting the newer Z mount 70-200.
I now have the Z100-400 and I use it far more than the 70-200 because of the zoom range. But I take the 70-200 with me because there are times I need the f/2.8 it provides.

 

[Delores Ruby]

I upgraded all my Nikon lenses to their top of the line products in 2021, including their f2.8 70-200, after years of great service from multiple older Nikon lenses. Photos were soft with the 70-200 (tack sharp with f2.8 17-55 and f4 180-400 TC), and in my autofocus fine adjustment testing, it required +18 to -2 at different focal lengths (20 adjustment gap), so I sent it in for servicing in Aug 2021. Received it back, tested it, and gap was down to 9 (not great), so I tried it on safari. 90% of photos were blurry throw aways, yet when I would switch to my f4 180-400 TC for the same scene, same focal length, pics were tack sharp. So, I sent the lens back to Nikon to service a second time, asking customer service to be SURE they tested AF throughly before sending it back. They sent it back saying it was all good, and when I tried it photos again were soft. I performed another test, and the adjustment gap across focal lengths was up to 27 (!). I called to ask for a replacement, and Nikon is stating they will test it again and send back if it tests well. My problem is, clearly Nikon’s testing is not picking up whatever is wrong with this lens. It never worked, and still is bad after two separate servicings as evidenced by simple autofocus testing. From reviews, clearly this is normally a great lens. I sent it back a 3rd time, imploring Nikon NOT to send it back a 3rd time, but rather replace it. That is where things stand today.
I spend a fortune (like everyone who does) to go on African safari a couple times a year, and simply cannot bear the thought of taking this lens only to have 90% of photos blurry throwaways again.
What do you experts think, or anyone experience something similar?
Given what I spend with Nikon, and given servicing has failed twice, I cannot comprehend how they would not replace it at this point……

I have had the same issue....I sent the same lens back twice--they said it was fine--it is not...they wouldnt replace it. I have a private camera doctor I work with-has his own shop and he says that sending to Nikon means they may never even look at it and dont have good service--mine was there over two months! I now use the Tamron and I only use my camera doctor for repairs--wont send back to Nikon again...ever!

 

[EricBowles]

As for servicing, and the camera shop told me this too, Nikon will not just replace anything until you've sent lens or camera etc. back to them at least three times. Also it helps if they can replicate the problem. I bought a brand new Z7II and had problems with it freezing up. I sent it to them three times before they replaced it. Their best guess was that one of the batteries was bad. Unfortunately they swapped out parts on the camera before they tested the batteries so they decided to replace the camera. All that to say is that you have to be extremely patient as it will take quite a while before they will decide to replace the lens. I'm not sure if going through the camera shop you purchased from or dealing with Nikon directly is better. My inclination is going through the camera shop/dealer where you purchased the lens as they could test it themselves and verify the problem. I know this doesn't help resolve your situation but just wanted to relate my experience dealing with Nikon service/repair. Please keep us up to date as I'm curious how they treat you.

Replicating the problem is the key. Chasing random issues is just not practical and ends up in frustration all the way around. As others have reported, if you can clearly demonstrate a problem it's usually easy to fix it. Before sending it in, it really helps if you can document the issue.

It's relatively easy to replace the camera. The problem will likely be fixed going forward after a repair. More likely, there was no real problem with the camera or lens and replacing it is perceived as a good solution, or the problem is known and fixed. There was another article at LensRentals about repairs at various manufacturers. What they found is the frequency of needing a second trip for repair was about the same as needing the first repair - a relatively low percentage and completely random.

 

[Calson]

My copy of the 70-200mm f/2.8E lens failed within 18 months of its purchase. It was the autofocus electronics that failed, the same as with my 600mm f/4E lens. Nikon was out of stock of the 600mm lens' AF module for 4 months which tells me they had many lenses with this same part failure. In the past Nikon would ignore whether a camera or lens was still within the warranty period when it was an obvious manufacturing defect, but that is no longer the case.

Small wonder that they decided to stop providing the 5-year warranty on lenses and only provide a 90-day warranty on cameras and lenses that have been refurbished (repaired).

 

[Wes Peterson]

My copy of the 70-200mm f/2.8E lens failed within 18 months of its purchase. It was the autofocus electronics that failed, the same as with my 600mm f/4E lens. Nikon was out of stock of the 600mm lens' AF module for 4 months which tells me they had many lenses with this same part failure. In the past Nikon would ignore whether a camera or lens was still within the warranty period when it was an obvious manufacturing defect, but that is no longer the case.

Small wonder that they decided to stop providing the 5-year warranty on lenses and only provide a 90-day warranty on cameras and lenses that have been refurbished (repaired).

Nikon is also out of the included filter holder for the 600 f4E..... by your logic they must fail routinely.