Unfortunate truth - Nikon will always be inferior to Sony and Canon

[DavidT]

Here's something else to think of: It's nice to have the most capable, versatile, technically advanced (better than) camera system on the market. Right now that's probably the Sony A9. For a hobbyist like me that camera, or any other that costs that much, cannot be justified so I'll most likely never own one. Nearing retirement I'm going to have to count my pennies in the future. Do I still manage to make good images with my less capable, cheaper Z6II? Absolutely, yes. I certainly don't get the number of keepers of fast-moving wildlife that I would get with the best, most capable camera, but I still manage to get good images. I shoot different types of images such as wildlife, landscape, architecture, macro, etc. Wildlife is only a portion of what I do, and birds in flight even less. I don't believe the top gun cameras are much better at most things not related to fast-moving wildlife.

I would challenge the Sony A9, Canon R5, future Nikon Z9 shooters to post more of those absolutely stunning images that could not have been made with a lesser body. When you show me enough of those I might be persuaded to spring for the top gun. We should be talking more about results (with posted images to illustrate) and less about features.

Well the difference is you could get one with your z6ii but the a9 you mentioned would deliver 19 more. It’s not a matter of just getting the picture it’s a matter of consistently capturing the peak moment, the perfect pose, the perfect wing position, the perfect background. You have to be pretty lucky that your one image has all the above. With the better performing cameras (the a1 is significantly better than an a9 FYI) you’ll enjoy much more choices and much better odds of nailing the perfect shot. To some this isn’t important, to others it’s very important. Anyone can post images but more interesting would be how many hit the cutting room floor?

 

[Rassie]

Well the difference is you could get one with your z6ii but the a9 you mentioned would deliver 19 more. It’s not a matter of just getting the picture it’s a matter of consistently capturing the peak moment, the perfect pose, the perfect wing position, the perfect background. You have to be pretty lucky that your one image has all the above. With the better performing cameras (the a1 is significantly better than an a9 FYI) you’ll enjoy much more choices and much better odds of nailing the perfect shot. To some this isn’t important, to others it’s very important. Anyone can post images but more interesting would be how many hit the cutting room floor?

Yeah, I get you, but not at the cost of over $6,000. Not for a hobby - I don't have that much free cash.

 

[Celticursa]

I wonder how many wall hangers might have been captured in recent weeks if the time spent at the keyboard discussing the Sony vs. Nikon issue had been spent actually using A1/A9/Z7/Z7II/Z6II/Canonxx?

 

[Doug Herr]

I wonder how many wall hangers might have been captured in recent weeks if the time spent at the keyboard discussing the Sony vs. Nikon issue had been spent actually using A1/A9/Z7/Z7II/Z6II/Canonxx?

None from me, air quality is hazardous & national forests are closed due to fire danger.

 

[Rustic land]

The way photographers jump from one brand to the next to keep up with the Smiths and the Jones has led to a bunch of photogs that are gear dependent instead of honing their craft and getting the utmost out of their current gear.

I look at it this way with my cameras, I try and master all the features to get the best possible outcome from them, once I have mastered all features then and only then if I have reach the limitations of my camera and I am not getting the desired outcome will I look for another camera that will. Simply buying a camera because it is the latest and greatest means you will forever be chasing that magical camera that will make your images so much better when by mastering your craft you will find that any half decent camera will give you great images because you are the secret sauce.

 

[JFW]

I feel like it is 'groundhog day' here on BCG, I keep reading the same thread over and over.

 

[abc123brian]

Yeah, I get you, but not at the cost of over $6,000. Not for a hobby - I don't have that much free cash.

I completely agree with you (though I think you are referring to the Sony A1). I think this is where Canon is winning. The R6 and R5 are roughly $500 more than the competition but offer incredible AF. They also have some of the cheaper, more compact F/4 standard zooms coming out. If Canon released this first instead of the EOS R and RP, I would be shooting Canon right now. I’m really hoping that Nikon gets the the AF tracking working in the Sept firmware update because I really like the Nikon system so far.

 

[Deleted member 115]

The way photographers jump from one brand to the next to keep up with the Smiths and the Jones has led to a bunch of photogs that are gear dependent instead of honing their craft and getting the utmost out of their current gear.

I look at it this way with my cameras, I try and master all the features to get the best possible outcome from them, once I have mastered all features then and only then if I have reach the limitations of my camera and I am not getting the desired outcome will I look for another camera that will. Simply buying a camera because it is the latest and greatest means you will forever be chasing that magical camera that will make your images so much better when by mastering your craft you will find that any half decent camera will give you great images because you are the secret sauce.

Personally I don't care what anyone else does with their money or time. I am fully enjoying the AF on my Sony A1. It's no secret that it is far more advanced than my camera knowledge but that's ok with me.

 

[DavidT]

The way photographers jump from one brand to the next to keep up with the Smiths and the Jones has led to a bunch of photogs that are gear dependent instead of honing their craft and getting the utmost out of their current gear.

I look at it this way with my cameras, I try and master all the features to get the best possible outcome from them, once I have mastered all features then and only then if I have reach the limitations of my camera and I am not getting the desired outcome will I look for another camera that will. Simply buying a camera because it is the latest and greatest means you will forever be chasing that magical camera that will make your images so much better when by mastering your craft you will find that any half decent camera will give you great images because you are the secret sauce.

You’re assuming they haven’t mastered all the features of their cameras. You’re also assuming anyone who buys something new is doing it for status. A lot of assumptions that frankly are nothing more.

 

[Doug Herr]

The way photographers jump from one brand to the next to keep up with the Smiths and the Jones has led to a bunch of photogs that are gear dependent instead of honing their craft and getting the utmost out of their current gear.

I look at it this way with my cameras, I try and master all the features to get the best possible outcome from them, once I have mastered all features then and only then if I have reach the limitations of my camera and I am not getting the desired outcome will I look for another camera that will. Simply buying a camera because it is the latest and greatest means you will forever be chasing that magical camera that will make your images so much better when by mastering your craft you will find that any half decent camera will give you great images because you are the secret sauce.

Speaking only for myself, I'm not trying to keep up with the "Smiths and Jones". Neither do I buy a camera because it's the latest and greatest. If it meets my needs I might switch, and if it's the latest and greatest du jour, so be it. I switched to Sony when my previous system became a dead end where parts and repairs were sketchy, and I choose the Sony alpha system because at the time no other camera maker had a full-frame mirrorless (I did not consider any DSLR because the advantages of mirrorless dovetailed quite well with my interests). Within the Sony alpha system I've skipped several incremental camera body iterations because they did not offer advantages that met my needs/desires.

I placed an order for the a1 shortly after it became available, not because it was The Latest Thing, but because it eliminated multiple obstacles that have been hindering me since the 1970s. This camera isn't an incremental upgrade. It's an order-of-magnitude leap and a joy to use.

 

[Stephen Berger]

I know the post was meant to sooth the brand wars urge and I have to say I moved to Sony because it offered something I wanted that Nikon didn't have (never really considered Canon) and the camera/lens combo I wanted was available in a moment when normally, these days, it's not. I've been giddy at times using the gear but never for a second have a I had a negative thought about Nikon gear or the Nikon brand nor any feeling of superiority about the Sony gear/brand (if I feel any brand allegiance its still more towards Nikon because I used the gear for so long). Steadfast brand allegiance or feeling superior/arrogant or inferior/defensive about the gear one owns has always been strange to me.

 

[fcotterill]

Out in the real world, what matters is the proverbial 6" behind the camera. It's likely each and everyone of these images could have been taken with models of cameras and lenses released over the past decade... if not a few older products. Planning and dedication (and let's face it serendipity) are the decided factors

Far far more importantly, I always scroll down to the younger Age categories. I know a few emerging photographers who make do, in fact do well with an imaging setup that many of the forum gearheads would dismiss as obsolete.

https://www.birdpoty.com/2021-winners

Road runner stopped by Trump's border wall wins Bird Photographer of the Year

Take flight and explore stunning photographs of some of the most endangered and enigmatic species of bird in the world.

www.sciencefocus.com

 

[Steve W]

I'll never miss film. I would shoot 10 rolls of Ektachrome during a baseball game and be lucky to get 10 nice shots. I don't have that access anymore but now digital let's you shoot thousands at almost no cost other than an extra battery to have handy.
My daughter goes to the zoo with me and I try to explain (the old days) having to be judicious with only 36 shots on a roll of film.

Yep, the costs used to escalate quickly if you shot too much film, no spraying away at 10+ frames per second like we do with digital.
I still find myself shooting 30% less frames per outing than those who have never shot film.

 

[Ralph]

Yep, the costs used to escalate quickly if you shot too much film, no spraying away at 10+ frames per second like we do with digital.
I still find myself shooting 30% less frames per outing than those who have never shot film.

I’m the same. I’m stuck in film mode as well . I usually shoot in burst of three. Can’t break the habit.

 

[Ado Wolf]

I want a camera mounted to a drone. I can sit in my lounge room, program the drone to fly where I’d like to be, use the live view to find the subject, use animal eye focus and shoot away at 10’s of frames per second, press the return to home and it flies back here and lands on my desk. The Images are transferred wirelessly to the computer. Now the tedious bit, I probably have to get out of my comfy chair to plug things in to recharge.
I return and set the computer to work, the AI can do the sorting and processing while I have a nap. Geez photography is tiring.....

I sure hope so this message is meant sarcastically (hard to be sure when reading plain text).
For me photography is 90% being out there and enjoying the experience and 10% about the photo. Lets say the Photo is the cherry on top.

 

[Ado Wolf]

Well the difference is you could get one with your z6ii but the a9 you mentioned would deliver 19 more. It’s not a matter of just getting the picture it’s a matter of consistently capturing the peak moment, the perfect pose, the perfect wing position, the perfect background. You have to be pretty lucky that your one image has all the above. With the better performing cameras (the a1 is significantly better than an a9 FYI) you’ll enjoy much more choices and much better odds of nailing the perfect shot. To some this isn’t important, to others it’s very important. Anyone can post images but more interesting would be how many hit the cutting room floor?

For photographers earning a living, that's definitely an advantage.
For hobbyist like me, I like the challenge of getting that one perfect shot. If that shot was made so easily, then some of the fun is lost.. On the other hand, if that image is impossible to take, that's no fun either. So I am quite satisfied with gear that is good enough to make this task a challenge, but not too hard to make it impossible (e.g. a D850 rather than a A1). That's only my personal preference of course

 

[Steve W]

I sure hope so this message is meant sarcastically (hard to be sure when reading plain text).
For me photography is 90% being out there and enjoying the experience and 10% about the photo. Lets say the Photo is the cherry on top.

Yes, it was sarcasm.... I wasn’t sure how many would pick up on that. For me it’s the enjoyment in going out to get the photos. The images just chronicle the day.

 

[Doug Herr]

Out in the real world, what matters is the proverbial 6" behind the camera. It's likely each and everyone of these images could have been taken with models of cameras and lenses released over the past decade... if not a few older products. Planning and dedication (and let's face it serendipity) are the decided factors

Far far more importantly, I always scroll down to the younger Age categories. I know a few emerging photographers who make do, in fact do well with an imaging setup that many of the forum gearheads would dismiss as obsolete.

https://www.birdpoty.com/2021-winners

Road runner stopped by Trump's border wall wins Bird Photographer of the Year

Take flight and explore stunning photographs of some of the most endangered and enigmatic species of bird in the world.

www.sciencefocus.com

Do we need to see the "6 inches behind the viewfinder" trope again? This is beating a dead horse. Can we assume this, and move on?
We don't all have the same interests. We don't all have the same skills. Can we also assume these?

Some of my favorite (and best-selling) photos were made with a 10MP manual-focus camera. Does that mean I ought to have kept using it, even though parts and repairs became sketchy, and batteries NLA? I have to wonder how many more favorite and best-selling photos I'd have if I had been working with today's equipment 20 years ago. Current equipment has enabled the creation of new "favorite and best-selling" images that previously I'd only seen in that "6 inches behind the viewfinder" space.

This is my "beating a dead horse" thing here, but yes of course one can make spectacular innovative and creative photos with modest equipment. There are many more I've missed because of the limitations of modest equipment. But maybe that's because I'm unskilled. Is this what you're telling me?

 

[jeffnles1]

Some people like SUVs, some like sport coups, some like sedans and some like pickup trucks and a few misguided souls like mini-vans (joke on the mini vans, lets lighten it up some). I like my SUV. Do I care what someone else drives? not a bit. I feel no need to justify my SUV any more than a person should feel a need to justify their Tesla. They are just different, designed for different needs/wants and what someone else does with their money is their business. What camera equipment someone else uses impacts my photography not at all. I still do what I love to do. Do I "want" new gear? sure, I think most of us do. Do I "need" new gear? not yet. One of these days I'll drop my camera one too many times, get caught out in the rain once too often, slip and fall on a snow covered hillside and roll over my camera, whatever and render my camera unusable. They I will need new gear. I would probably not go with an exact replacement. However, I would also feel no need to justify my purchase nor critique the purchase of another.

Just my .02 worth (and probably worth far less than half the cost).
Jeff

 

[JAS]

I have been with Nikon since 2009 and have acquired over $30K in various Nikon cameras, lenses and other gear. I am an over enthusiastic hobbyist who makes no money from my photos. I like my gear, am barely tapping its capabilities and make no money from its use. There will be no gear switching here. even if my other half said it was ok, which she would probably do.

 

[SLNS]

This is Nikon we're talking about. Though I'm not currently a Nikon user, I had been for decades. This is a storied brand whose name really transcends features and technology and will be a force to be reckoned with again- one only has to remember Nikon's D3x or D800 answer to Canon. The D800 still produces images that any discerning photographer, pro or amateur, would be happy with. Let's not write off this amazing imaging brand just yet!

 

[Stephen Berger]

I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of people only read the headline of the post...

 

[Deleted member 115]

For photographers earning a living, that's definitely an advance.
For hobbyist like me, I like the challenge of getting that one perfect shot. If that shot was made so easily, then some of the fun is lost.. On the other hand, if that image is impossible to take, that's no fun either. So I am quite satisfied with gear that is good enough to make this task a challenge, but not too hard to make it impossible (e.g. a D850 rather than a A1). That's only my personal preference of course

You'd be surprised how much fun Bird eye AF is. just sayin'

 

[Doug Herr]

You'd be surprised how much fun Bird eye AF is. just sayin'

Yup.

 

[RichF]

I think that one reason there is so much interest in which brand is "better" is that, for a Nikon f-mount user, the writing on the wall says the f-mount is on its last legs. There probably won't be any more development. The future is another mount and as long as we're changing mounts, should we change brands. Myself, I have never before considered changing, but now, before I jump on the Z bandwagon, I want to understand the other options. While some seem to be offended by what's being said about other brands, I'm very interested in hearing what they have to say. While it's "possible" to get great shots with most any brand, I'm looking for more enjoyment. Once the R3 and Z9 come out, we can make direct comparisons. Until then, it's all speculation and conjecture (which can be fun too).

Canon suffered from mount change years ago. Went from FT-b to EOS. Hurt a bit but in the end ..

Right now, unless either canon or nikon offer to retrofit the long glass, all dSLR glass will be out of date (soon or later). Speculation is not more dslrs. How knows, perhaps both Canon and Nikon have will one last hurray. The short flange distance, as I understand it, is a real plus for lens design so ???