Upgrading From Nikon D500

[john1970]

I don't know what your budget is. A Nikon Z8 with the 180-600 mm zoom could be a very good combo for bird photography. Like others have said if you have the budget I would transition to mirrorless. I shot DSLRS from 2021 to 2021 and I would never go back to a DSLR.

 

[Beau Cotter]

I guess the question is what's lacking in your current setup?

Are you having to crop a lot when shooting your D500 with your 200-500mm lens? If so, one advantage of the 500mm f/4 is its ability to take a 1.4x TC and still deliver great images at only f/5.6 so still retaining great AF performance on the D500. If you're not having trouble getting sufficient image size with your current setup then the 500mm f/4 can help you shoot in lower and softer light and can help you blur backgrounds a bit more which are both great.

If you aren't filling the frame as much as you'd like then I'd look for a 600mm f/4 or expect to use a 500mm f/4 with a 1.4x TC a lot.

I'm thinking about the biggest things and I believe they are something like this

1 AF speed

2 Low light performance (also could be solved with better VR probably)

3 background rendering & bokeh

4 Photo resolution (not necessarily sharpness, just kinda running out of pixels when cropping...)

5 sharpness wide open (not a huge deal but something to consider)

And yeah, I do find myself cropping quite often actually.

Also, just to clear something up for me, is thinking of primarily handholding that 500 f4 ridiculous? Or do you think I could get used to it?

 

[DRwyoming]

Also, just to clear something up for me, is thinking of primarily handholding that 500 f4 ridiculous? Or do you think I could get used to it?

I've hand held my 600mm f/4, even the older and heavier G version in a pinch but only for a handful of seconds or minute here and there. For all day usage I wouldn't recommend it. Sure the 500mm f/4 G is a bit lighter but not much.

I think it's possible when needed and there are often opportunities to brace against a tree or fence rail or rock, backpack, etc. But personally I wouldn't purchase a big f/4 lens with the intention of 100% hand holding and I'm not exactly frail. I'd at least carry a monopod with a lens that size.

 

[beano]

I'm thinking about the biggest things and I believe they are something like this

1 AF speed

2 Low light performance (also could be solved with better VR probably)

3 background rendering & bokeh

4 Photo resolution (not necessarily sharpness, just kinda running out of pixels when cropping...)

5 sharpness wide open (not a huge deal but something to consider)

And yeah, I do find myself cropping quite often actually.

Also, just to clear something up for me, is thinking of primarily handholding that 500 f4 ridiculous? Or do you think I could get used to it?

Hi Beau,
Below shot was shot in the late afternoon- 200-500 @500mm /f5.6. SOOC jpeg, cropped, shot on the d850.

As someone has mentioned above, you can get pretty decent bokeh by getting closer to your subject, zooming in as much as you can and having them further from the background. I do own the d500/d850 and z8/z9 bodies, and must say, I still very much enjoy the DSLR’s occasionally.

Of course cropping that much do drop a bit of sharpness, but the 200-500 still has decent micro-contrast, imho. Even sharpness is sacrificed, still plenty of detail. Of course, being a budget lens, LoCa is visible in the bokeh areas.

The d500/200-500 is a wonderful and affordable birding body, if I could recommend anything, and if you’re solely into bird still photography, rather invest in glass. The 500of and 500 f4 are both great lenses and very affordable on the 2nd hand market, you can effectively use them on the new z-bodies when you move over to mirrorless.

I am still hoping for a something 30MP DX D500 replacement, let’s see what Nikon drops next. Above all imho of course, excellent advice ^^ by others.

 

[StefanSC]

I for one wouldn't look at a D850 or a 500mm F4G VR as upgrades from a D500 and 200-500.

While the FF body is nice you're giving up FPS and "reach".

And the 500mm f4G VR might not be repairable these days some if something fails you end up with an expensive paperweight. You need to check with Nikon if they still provide spare parts for it.

If I was looking for a real upgrade from a D500 and 200-500 for wildlife without over-buying something like a Z8 and 600mm f6.3, my short-list would be:

OMDS OM-1 (mk. 1 or 2) and Olympus 300mm f4 (and the 1.4x TC).

Sony A6700 and Sigma 500mm f5.6. (this is a bit of a side-grade but it has a nice upgrade path for the future).

Maybe a Fuji X-H2s and the new Fuji 500mm f5.6 (if it's any good).

Otherwise, I'd just get the 500mm f5.6 PF and wait for Nikon's next gen speed camera or the mirrorless D500.

 

[PhotoLover]

In a world where they would be around the same price, do you think that getting the 500 f4g vr would be preferable over the 500pf?
I think I probably underestimate the 500pf because on paper it seems so similar to my 200-500. Also, I know for a lot of people weight is a primary concern, but I think I could manage the extra pounds of the f4 if I were to get it. (I think... )

Whatever upgrade you pick should be based on 1) what is your current gear not giving you and 2) what is your long-term upgrade path?

For 2), you definitely want to go mirrorless at some point. Versus say an 850. For 1) that's something you need to think about.

I haven't used the 500 f4, but I rented the 200-500 for a while and rented and then bought the 500 pf. The 500 pf is a fantastic lens. It's light; you can carry it around all day. AF is fast and precise. It is sharp, very sharp any distance, any aperture. It takes the 1.4 III teleconverter very well. AF is slowed with the 1.4, but still usable in many situations while retaining great sharpness. I use that combo to get tighter shots of small birds hopping around in trees all the time, and that's not an easy scenario.

And you can now pick up used 500 pfs in good condition for much less than new. And, the 500 pf and 1.4 will, apparently, work even better on Nikons FF mirrorless than they do on the dSLRs (in particular, AF with the teleconverter is much better).

But back to 1), what's the biggest problem you are trying to solve?

 

[Rassie]

Marry the lens, date the camera. If memory serves, that is Steve Perry's advice. A good lens will last a long time, but constant technology advances date camera bodies pretty quickly.
I had a pretty good copy of the Nikkor 200-500mm F/5.6 that I used on D7000, D7100, D7500 cameras with pretty good results, except for the slow focus. That was not ideal for fast-moving birds in the foliage. I also used a TC-14E III on that lens with good results.

In 2019 I bought the Z6 and used that lens and TC-14E III on the Z6. Images were sharper on the Z6 than on the DSLR bodies because the focus on mirrorless cameras is more accurate than on a DSLR, and there's no need for AF fine-tuning on the mirrorless camera. I was pretty happy with the results of the 200-500mm zoom lens on the Z6 (within the limitations of the lens), but of course the Z6 was lacking in focus tracking of fast birds.

In 2019 I changed the 200-500mm lens for a 500mm PF F/5.6. I was much happier with the PF lens. It's smaller and lighter, sharper, focuses faster, and is more agile to move around to track erratically fast moving birds. In May 2023 I jumped on a Z8 as soon as they hit the market and I've been using the 500mm PF plus TC-14E III on that body since. With the great IQ of the 500mm PF lens and the autofocus capabilities of the Z8 I've been pretty satisfied and will keep using that combo until I can afford the Nikkor Z 600mm PF lens.

I don't believe the bokeh on the 500mm PF is much better than the 200-500mm lens, so don't expect much improvement in that regard if you are thinking of acquiring the 500mm PF lens. You may find you can hand-hold the 500mm F/4 lens easily enough, but I don't think you'll be able to swing it around as easily and quickly as the 500mm PF when shooting fast movers. Bokeh and IQ on the 500mm F/4 will be better than the 500mm PF, but then how good is good enough? As for using higher ISO's on the slower 500mm PF lens, today's very effective AI-driven noise reduction in Photoshop and Lightroom literally makes noise almost a non-issue. I am much less concerned with noise now than in the past. I'll happily shoot at ISO's higher than 6400 now and make the noise disappear during post processing.

In my opinion, if you cannot upgrade to at least a 500mm PF and Z6III, Z8 or Z9 at the same time due to budget constraints, I would get the 500mm PF lens and use that on the D500 until you can afford to upgrade to a mirrorless body. I would not buy a 500mm F/4 lens or a D850 body at any time anymore.

Z8, 500mm PF with TC-14E III, Costa Rica, March 2024.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[bleirer]

For a little more money you can get into a nice Canon R7 and the 200-800mm, unless you feel locked in to Nikon for some reason.

 

[Beau Cotter]

For a little more money you can get into a nice Canon R7 and the 200-800mm, unless you feel locked in to Nikon for some reason.

Yeah I do have a few more nikon lenses id have to sell if I were to switch, and I am more fond of the flagship nikons vs canons or sony...(At least for bird photography)

 

[groob]

Eh, I don’t really agree with a lot of the advice given. First, yes, you can handhold a 500mm f/4 G. I shot the previous version of the 500mm, which was lighter, but didn’t have VR, for 7-8 years and almost never used a tripod. I currently shoot with the 600mm f/4 FL E and have never put it on a tripod. I frequently hike upwards of 2 miles with the lens on a Black Rapid strap or even just carrying it by hand. It’s not that bad—and I’m not in great shape.

Second, I think you could find a used Z8 body in your price range. But a Z8 won’t solve the problems you’ve identified. The 200-500 f/5.6 is just a slow focusing lens. A 500mm f/5.6 will focus much faster, but it won’t have any effect on bokeh. As others have mentioned, getting closer to your subject and shooting subjects that farther from the background will fix the bokeh issues. Of course, a 500mm f/4 will help, and it will focus MUCH faster than the 200-500mm f/5.6.

Third, Nikon’s policy used to be that it would repair a lens until it was two generations old. The 500mm f/4 G is one generation old, but even assuming that Nikon will stop repairing it, you’ll have some runway for repairs with businesses like APS. I’d ask Nikon what its policy is currently and whether it can repair a 500mm f/4 G. I’d also ask APS whether it anticipates being able to repair a 500mm f/4 G for a few more years.

As to upgrading the camera or lens first, I think it depends on what you’re more frustrated by. It seems to me that you have more of a lens issue than a camera issue. So, it might make sense to upgrade the lens now and save for a camera afterward. While saving, you could also work on your fieldcraft so that you can approach birds more closely and identify opportunities where the background is further from the subject, which will benefit you immensely when moving to full frame.

 

[Beau Cotter]

Eh, I don’t really agree with a lot of the advice given. First, yes, you can handhold a 500mm f/4 G. I shot the previous version of the 500mm, which was lighter, but didn’t have VR, for 7-8 years and almost never used a tripod. I currently shoot with the 600mm f/4 FL E and have never put it on a tripod. I frequently hike upwards of 2 miles with the lens on a Black Rapid strap or even just carrying it by hand. It’s not that bad—and I’m not in great shape.

Second, I think you could find a used Z8 body in your price range. But a Z8 won’t solve the problems you’ve identified. The 200-500 f/5.6 is just a slow focusing lens. A 500mm f/5.6 will focus much faster, but it won’t have any effect on bokeh. As others have mentioned, getting closer to your subject and shooting subjects that farther from the background will fix the bokeh issues. Of course, a 500mm f/4 will help, and it will focus MUCH faster than the 200-500mm f/5.6.

Third, Nikon’s policy used to be that it would repair a lens until it was two generations old. The 500mm f/4 G is one generation old, but even assuming that Nikon will stop repairing it, you’ll have some runway for repairs with businesses like APS. I’d ask Nikon what its policy is currently and whether it can repair a 500mm f/4 G. I’d also ask APS whether it anticipates being

Awesome. It's great to hear from someone who mostly handholds!
I'll probably upgrade lens first, then look for a z8 down the road when they are cheaper.

 

[Craig Yuill]

I too own a D500, but mostly use a Sigma 100-400mm lens, which has proven to be an amazing, affordable lens. It has definitely proven to be much easier to carry around and handhold for long periods of time than the Nikon 200-500.

I looked into going mirrorless before I picked up the D500. In fact I did go partially mirrorless back in late 2012, when I picked up a Nikon V1 kit. But Nikon crippled the Nikon 1 system feature-wise so that it wouldn’t eat into DSLR sales. Nikon eventually started making truly capable mirrorless cameras when they brought out the Z system. The Z 9, Z 8, and Z 6 III sure seem to satisfy the needs of Nikon-shooting wildlife photographers. But they are all FX cameras, requiring relatively-big and relatively-expensive lenses to get the reach you are accustomed to with your DX D500 and FX 200-500. Of course you can crop 45MP FX images down to 19MP DX images with the Z 8 and Z 9, but that’s an expensive way to get a high-performance DX camera.

I am in a similar position as you. Should I add glass to my current system, or look at a new (mirrorless) system? At the moment I am thinking of adding glass to my current F-mount system. High-quality used F-mount glass can be acquired at relatively-low prices these days. Z-mount cameras and lenses of similar calibre are quite a bit more costly - although they have supposedly better overall performance. Is the significant extra cost worth it? If you have the money to spare, perhaps. I don’t. In the foreseeable future I expect to keep using my D500. After two and a half years I am still finding ways to improve how I take photos with it. I might pick up a 500mm PF lens at some point. The D500 is still a very good camera that can be used to take very good photos.

 

[Drbobcameraguy]

It seems to me you have 2 problems. Range due to cropping all the time and Boca. The Boca issue you can solve most of with skills. The range issue needs more or a longer range lens. At least a 600mm or the 500 f4 with a TC. So my pick would be a 150-600 sigma sport. My wife has the contemporary and it is actually very sharp. I had a sport a few years ago with my d500 and it was very sharp and very useful with the zoom. Now I use a 300-800 f5 6 on a tripod and gimbal. I think if you are staying with Dale get a longer range lens or a faster lens to compare with a teleconverter.

 

[jsadiving]

The fps on the D850 is painfully slow compared to the D500. I miss my D500. I'd stick with it!!!

 

[Roy]

Hello! Im new here, I am a 16-year-old bird photographer located in Michigan, I would consider myself an intermediate photographer, I use the Nikon D500 with the good ole 200-500 f/5.6.
I have been thinking about upgrading. I am throwing around the idea of either getting a D850, or looking for a Nikkor 500 f4 g vr, to use with the d500. (I know its heavy, Im pretty young though and haven't had problems with fatigue yet)

What do you think would be the best option?

Also not entirely sure how these forums work, so apologies if I did anything wrong!
Thanks for any info
Beau

Nothing wrong with the D500 and 200-500 combo
A D850 is a step up but probably less for birding.
600mm seems the optimal focal length for birding
And the old 600 f4 can be found cheap now (although big and heavy)
These lenses are usually on a tripod so even VR isn't essential ...

 

[O]

Hello! Im new here, I am a 16-year-old bird photographer located in Michigan, I would consider myself an intermediate photographer, I use the Nikon D500 with the good ole 200-500 f/5.6.
I have been thinking about upgrading. I am throwing around the idea of either getting a D850, or looking for a Nikkor 500 f4 g vr, to use with the d500. (I know its heavy, Im pretty young though and haven't had problems with fatigue yet)

What do you think would be the best option?

Also not entirely sure how these forums work, so apologies if I did anything wrong!
Thanks for any info
Beau

I take it your buying the D850 and 500mm F4 Used ? if so read on, if your buying new ignore the following.

The progression from the D500 to the D850 is an experience you should really enjoy.

The D850 is a different tool, it will enable you to explore so much more in photography.

All the D500 owners i know who loved their D500 sold it when they got a D850.

The D850 is simply spectacular, at as low as $1200 $1300 USD in as new condition with 15k actuation's,
there is no other camera known to man this cheap being this good overall.

A D850 on a 500 F4 is a spectacular combination optically and resolution wise with crop ability to boot, a insane bargain at used prices.

I have the D850, Z8, Z9 (SOLD after 2 years), there isn't much i can’t do on the D850 that i can do on the Z8 Z9, other than overkill speed, or lock on eye tracking video style for BIF, or high end video.

I haven’t invested in mirror less glass as i rent as a preferred choice, mostly because of inconsistent use of any one type of lens, also because in my case its all a tax deduction as well. Only when i find something i love and use a lot nearly all the time then buying may be a consideration.

As you know there is a huge plethora of brilliant DSLR tools out there used at prices that are only going to get cheaper and cheaper, what a affordable pool of tools to explore and grow with.

My suggestion is go slow, progressively, enjoy the journey and experience that will define who you are or become as a photographer.

Don't get caught up in the mirror less treadmill just yet or turn your back on DSLR tools just yet, enjoy the experience’s, you will be only wiser when the time comes to measure tangibly the real benefits of different tools benefiting what you do. Again just enjoy the journey getting there.

Judge not just the tools but the results, often 90% of what you see comes form you.

That said there is the rational of a Z6III that may change your world, but gee once you go 45mp its hard to go back to 20 or 24mp, again that said any big move to mirror less you may just have sell your ...................Dodge Viper.

The cost of mirror less is not just the camera, it runs into cards, readers, batteries lenses......time may be your best friend initially.

Stay focused on photography.

In our club several highly experienced bird photographers are still winning each year awards in club, and Gold, Silver in national and international competitions with their DSLR tools.

Only an opinion.

 

[beano]

The fps on the D850 is painfully slow compared to the D500. I miss my D500. I'd stick with it!!!

I have the battery grip on my old d850. The 10.8V battery boosts fps quite well, it is very comparable to my wife’s d500 wrt fps. And it even boosts AF performance as well. The d850 is no slouch, but you need the grip.

 

[beano]

I take it your buying the D850 and 500mm F4 Used ? if so read on, if your buying new ignore the following.

The progression from the D500 to the D850 is an experience you should really enjoy.

The D850 is a different tool, it will enable you to explore so much more in photography.

All the D500 owners i know who loved their D500 sold it when they got a D850.

The D850 is simply spectacular, at as low as $1200 $1300 USD in as new condition with 15k actuation,
there is no other camera known to man this cheap being this good overall.

A D850 on a 500 F4 is a spectacular combination optically and resolution with crop ability to boot, a bargain at used prices.

I have the D850, Z8, Z9 (SOLD after 2 years), there isn't much i can’t do on the D850 that i can do on the Z8 Z9, other than overkill speed, or lock on eye tracking video style for BIF.
I haven’t invested in mirror less glass as i rent as a preferred choice,
only when i find something i love and use all the time then buying may be a consideration.

As you know there is a huge plethora of brilliant DSLR tools out there used at prices that are only going to get cheaper and cheaper, what a affordable pool of tools to explore and grow with.

Go slow, proseeivly, the journey and experince will difine who you are or become as a photogrpher.

Don't get caught up in the mirror less treadmill just yet or turn your back on DSLR tools just yet, enjoy the experience’s, you will be only wiser when the time comes to measure tangibly the real benefits of different tools benafiting what you do. Just enjoy the journey getting there.

That said there is the rational of a Z6III that may change your world, but gee once you go 45mp its hard to go back to 20 or 24mp, again that said any big move to mirrorless you may just have sell your Dodge Viper.

The cost of mirrorless is not just the camera, it runs into cards, readers, batteries lenses......time may be your best friend initially.

Stay focused on photography.
in our club several highly experienced bird photographers are still winning each year awards in club, national and international competitions with their DSLR tools.

Only an opinion.

Very good reply, excellent advice. Owning the d500, d850, z8 and z9, both DSLR’s are excellent stills-cameras, in many ways I enjoy them over the z8/z9.

 

[O]

Very good reply, excellent advice. Owning the d500, d850, z8 and z9, both DSLR’s are excellent stills-cameras, in many ways I enjoy them over the z8/z9.

Hey i am chuffed, i thought i was the only one to dare admit i enjoy using the DSLRS still often over the Z8 Z9, Thank you.

 

[beano]

Hey i am chuffed, i thought i was the only one to dare admit i enjoy using the DSLRS still often over the Z8 Z9, Thank you.

Haha, all good! They’re still brilliant cameras, and in many ways, I enjoy the challenge using them, as it requires a bit more thinking vs the modern computerised mirrorless bodies, where you can point-and-shoot-at-120fps-and-hope-to get-a-good-shot (a bit tongue in the cheek, apologies, guys).

So often I see photography turns into spray-and-pray, and digital image mastery, as opposed to capturing that unique moment in time, creating something special. I know for some it‘s a professional job, no disrespect, I am just glad I have the freedom to enjoy the artistic side with no pressure.

This is where the old DSLRs excel. With that said, my favourite camera is my Zf with my 40mm f/1.2 Voigtländer, I absolutely always have it with me.

 

[Dave Wo]

Like you've seen in the responses, budget is a big concern and letting folks know what you plan to shoot. I have the D500 and I love it for wildlife especially for birds. Often the birds here are gone and I shoot landscapes and other things. I have varied interests, so I bought a D810 FF camera and with it's pixel rating, it is great for landscapes. I agree that it lacks the speed of the D500 for locking on focus for wildlife however. Given a choice for general shooting, I will always lean toward the full frame cameras. See Steve Perry's comments when he reviewed the D500 when it came out. I have used the D810 for BIF with pretty good luck but not as many keepers as my D500. Good luck and good shooting with whatever you wind up with!

 

[macwalter]

If it were me I would forget dslr gear altogether. I have a friend who just sold his d500 and Tamron 150-600 (at my advice) and got the z8 and the 180-600mm z lens. He told me the difference was well worth the expense. Forget the z6iii, not enough pixels at 24 for serious wildlife. The z8 will serve you better. There are so many advantages to going mirrorless I dont know where to begin. I had both the d500 and d850 and the 300and 500pf. Good gear for sure. But the z glass is better imop in every way. If you are doing more still subjects then a d850 is the best dslr out there for Nikon. But I still am glad I switched.

 

[Abinoone]

Hello! Im new here, I am a 16-year-old bird photographer located in Michigan, I would consider myself an intermediate photographer, I use the Nikon D500 with the good ole 200-500 f/5.6.
I have been thinking about upgrading. I am throwing around the idea of either getting a D850, or looking for a Nikkor 500 f4 g vr, to use with the d500. (I know its heavy, Im pretty young though and haven't had problems with fatigue yet)

What do you think would be the best option?

Also not entirely sure how these forums work, so apologies if I did anything wrong!
Thanks for any info
Beau

Hello Beau, and welcome to BCG! Lots of folks have already given you good advice, so I won't repeat any of that here. However, since you're considering the 500 PF, one thing I would recommend is to watch Steve's excellent review of the lens

He compares it to a number of other lenses, including the 200-500. Bottom line, Steve found the 500PF to be lighter, have faster AF, better IQ at the edges of the frame, better build quality, and better weather sealing than the 200-500. Only you can decide if these are critical factors in your thinking.

The only other thing you might consider is trying before buying, if at all possible. If your area has a camera club, you might attend a meeting to talk to members - often, club enthusiasts will let you try their equipment. A more costly alternative would be to rent the lens(es) or camera body(ies) you're considering, just to make sure you like them. Renting can be expensive, but not as expensive as making a mistake with a purchase. Some rental companies (e.g. Lensrentals.com) have a try and buy program whereby the price of the rental will be applied to a purchase.

I wish you the very best of luck in your deliberations. Please be sure to let us know what you decide, and if you were pleased with your decision.

 

[O]

I have the battery grip on my old d850. The 10.8V battery boosts fps quite well, it is very comparable to my wife’s d500 wrt fps. And it even boosts AF performance as well. The d850 is no slouch, but you need the grip.

Same here, the gripped D850 was what let me sell the D4S and D5 i loved, no regrets. I actually ended up with 2 D850 units, one with the grip one without.
later i Sold one D850 when ordering the first of the Z9 units, the Z9 is another whole world of experiences and already going cheap used.

I actually much prefer the Z9 over the Z8 but need the Z8 over the Z9, Street work travel and multi day hiking.

If size and weight wasn't the issue i would go with the Z9II which will have much updated and improved features, however, i sold my Z9 at the right time and got back virtually what i paid for it.

On my Radar is the anticipated Z7 III, hoping it will be 60 mp, i mean the 61 mp Sony is stunning. As a tool i need small and light not as much speed or powerful video. If its 45mp it will still be a serious consideration.

 

[O]

Haha, all good! They’re still brilliant cameras, and in many ways, I enjoy the challenge using them, as it requires a bit more thinking vs the modern computerised mirrorless bodies, where you can point-and-shoot-at-120fps-and-hope-to get-a-good-shot (a bit tongue in the cheek, apologies, guys).

So often I see photography turns into spray-and-pray, and digital image mastery, as opposed to capturing that unique moment in time, creating something special. I know for some it‘s a professional job, no disrespect, I am just glad I have the freedom to enjoy the artistic side with no pressure.

This is where the old DSLRs excel. With that said, my favourite camera is my Zf with my 40mm f/1.2 Voigtländer, I absolutely always have it with me.

The ZF is spectaculer, the fact you take it everywhere means speaks loudly, and is what i like. I hear from club mebers who have it that they just love it.

Actually I still have a Nikon DF silver with the Italian half case, LOL.

Happy to have missed the selling opportunity.

Despite the immense level of features and power of a Z8 i still for some reason just love the DF, is it like i love my old classic car.
or just the absolute simplicity about it, i usually have the 50mm 1.4 Zeiss on it or the 28-300, and even at rare times the 300 F2.8 VR II.

On the DF i do travel shots, street, if needed sports action, yes, sports action, 5.5 fps is more than enough. When your main camera runs out of batteries, i guess the best camera is the one you have at the time, often in the boot or trunk as you call it.

I call the DF my dumb camera, it slows me down like you say and i actually focus more on composition. I don't have to think when using it, that in itself seems refreshing.

Its ok to be emotional about photography isn't it ?

That said, You can set the Z8 to 2 to 4 or 6 fps, reduce the file sizes taken and do all that stuff to emulate the DF, rendering the DF for want of a word absoluitly and totally obsolete,
so the question is what is it i like about the DF so much, it’s just so so simple and mechanical like and the furthest thing to a massively customizable often comlicated for some computer that takes photos like teh Z8 Z9 can be to some people, or is it just all psychosomatic.

Sometimes less is more, that's why people love to go to the beach and just love the ocean for its vast open empty space, then stand in the water and ground out and discharge all the accumulated magnetic energy.

Small, Light, classic, very simple, mechanical like, 16mp, Large pixel pitch, Full Frame, D4 sensor, cheap cards, batteries that last for days.
Just relaxing to use.............why it still gets used often is beyond me, maybe i should stop wondering, just enjoy it. Its what he ZF does for you that is priceless.

Only an opinion